Season 19/20

[Brummie Hibs]

Leaked copy of dossier apparently. Only 19 pages. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_JAFXxXWrNxSKMllzx25T0KuLjUcKnkX/view

[Debian]

13 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Lockdown is clearly getting to Debian 😂

I've been in lockdown since early Feb my man.  This thread is fucking mental though. 

As for the statement dossier; skim read. Some decent points requiring response but nothing damming that I can see.

 

[kumnio]

Ive skimmed that document, is it genuine? Its very poorly constructed if its genuine.

The bit about DFC is especially poor, and contradicts the SPFL articles, rules or whatever they are called.

If its a tell all document, why are there far more questions, instead of answers, surely they should be proving wrong doings, not implying there are possibly some?

[Kirk]

If thats the actual document, I've read two pages and its utter pish so far

[vanderark14]

What do rangers want to gain from this?

[Tartan_McCole]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

What do rangers want to gain from this?

It's been dragging on that long I don't think anyone can actually remember. Maybe that was the point?

[Debian]

11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

What do rangers want to gain from this?

If we are all going to be adults, it is to stop Celtic being given the league they would most likely have won anyway.  But that is not going to be admitted.

What we do have is a complete clusterfuck afterwards.  If things had been done correctly, Dundee No vote would have counted and we wouldn't be as far down this shit show of events.

It's going to end up in court, no one is going to win.

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Debian said:

If we are all going to be adults, it is to stop Celtic being given the league they would most likely have won anyway.  But that is not going to be admitted.

What we do have is a complete clusterfuck afterwards.  If things had been done correctly, Dundee No vote would have counted and we wouldn't be as far down this shit show of events.

It's going to end up in court, no one is going to win.

If Dundee voted differently, what would that have meant? The lower leagues could not be called?

[Debian]

7 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

If Dundee voted differently, what would that have meant? The lower leagues could not be called?

Yes, and that a new solution would need to be found; unsurprisingly it would have been Rangers resolution most likely where the clubs would get the funds.  Something which they can't do but has since confirmed they have done.

 

[vanderark14]

6 minutes ago, Debian said:

Yes, and that a new solution would need to be found; unsurprisingly it would have been Rangers resolution most likely where the clubs would get the funds.  Something which they can't do but has since confirmed they have done.

 

what was Rangers solution?

[slasher]

Any evidence yet? 

[Debian]

10 minutes ago, slasher said:

Any evidence yet? 

Quite a bit in the report 👍

[killiefaetheferry]

7 minutes ago, slasher said:

Any evidence yet? 

Yes. 4 polite requests to 'cease and desist' over the course of 2 days, with the final one being evidence of the bullying Donald Park is claiming. You're not gonna believe this level of bullying from R McK; it said (paraphrase) 'can we not agree to simply resolve this by you not repeating the allegation'. The bullying bastard! Call the polis!

[Kirk]

From follow follow

 

I’ve read through the 19 pages and it is about as damning as you could get.

Rangers are alleging a complete breakdown in the standards of corporate governance that should be expected of the SPFL and I believe they’ve done that.

Essentially, Doncaster and McKenzie wanted to steamroller their resolution through regardless of due process.

Obviously, this was at the behest of ’Peter’ but the club can’t say that.

Those who argue that the club shouldn’t have done this are plain wrong.

[vanderark14]

excuse my ignorance but were rangers proposing loans for each of the lower league clubs instead of ending the season and paying out the cash?

 

 

[vanderark14]

has the evidence of bullying been found yet?

The narrative seems to have changed from rangers

[Fairbairn]

4 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

excuse my ignorance but were rangers proposing loans for each of the lower league clubs instead of ending the season and paying out the cash?

 

 

I think it was something like that.  I could be wrong with this as I've deliberately been trying to not get to much in to it (things are depressing enough as it is) but I think the SPFL rejected their resolution  based on an incorrect word used in the submission (1 word) and that it was Hearts who were advised that after the deadline for resubmitting had passed.  I also seem to have read something that said what Rangers and Hearts were proposing wasn't possible only to then admit it was always an option but they didn't advise clubs of that at the time of the first resolution vote.

[vanderark14]

6 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I think it was something like that.  I could be wrong with this as I've deliberately been trying to not get to much in to it (things are depressing enough as it is) but I think the SPFL rejected their resolution  based on an incorrect word used in the submission (1 word) and that it was Hearts who were advised that after the deadline for resubmitting had passed.  I also seem to have read something that said what Rangers and Hearts were proposing wasn't possible only to then admit it was always an option but they didn't advise clubs of that at the time of the first resolution vote.

The key points seems to have been lost since the vote and accusations of bullying. From what I can find, Doncaster said giving loans to EVERY team was not practical. 

There is some light at the end of the tunnel with Germany telling the world they will resume fitba on the 15th of May without fans in attendance. Perhaps Scotland's top tier could follow suit? This would surely appease each team involved. Rangers would have no cause to moan........................... well I am sure they'd find one but you get the point.

Also, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of bullying or any reason for people to be suspended.................yet. Wasn't this the whole point of the "smoking gun"

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by vanderark14

[Fairbairn]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

The key points seems to have been lost since the vote and accusations of bullying. From what I can find, Doncaster said giving loans to EVERY team was not practical. 

There is some light at the end of the tunnel with Germany telling the world they will resume fitba on the 15th of May without fans in attendance. Perhaps Scotland's top tier could follow suit? This would surely appease each team involved. Rangers would have no cause to moan........................... well I am sure they'd find one but you get the point

 

I think the bullying that's been alluded to is the (alleged) way the SPFL presented the information and options for the vote, IE "voting yes is the only valid option" (paraphrasing, obvs) as opposed to them having pictures of Doncaster and Lawwell giving John Nelms Chinese burns outsid the school gates.

I agree though, anything that gets this shit show over and the fitba back works for me.  I'm almost at the stage where I'd even take going back to being hosed by Hamilton at home over this nonsense.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, kumnio said:

 

If its a tell all document, why are there far more questions, instead of answers, surely they should be proving wrong doings, not implying there are possibly some?

Wouldn't that be the point of an independent investigation - which is what Rangers are asking for?

Edited May 7, 2020 by aaid

[kumnio]

Doncaster is very precise in the way he speaks, its very slow and he does carefully consider what he is saying.

The SPFL could have had a vote to amend the articles, which would have allowed them to pay the money to clubs, without the season ending. They kept saying they couldnt do that, meaning paying out the money, not that they couldnt amend the articles. Instead they amended the articles to call the season.

The SPFL is a complete shower of cunts, however, they are not guilty of what Rangers have caused them off. Id guess Doncaster is quite disliked, not only by fans, but by quite a lot of clubs as well.

The hyperbole by some has been brilliantly comical though.

[kumnio]

2 minutes ago, aaid said:

Wouldn't that be the what an independent investigation would do?

It would confirm it.

If you take a case to court, you need to have an actual provable case. You don't get there, then start the investigation. 

[aaid]

1 minute ago, kumnio said:

It would confirm it.

If you take a case to court, you need to have an actual provable case. You don't get there, then start the investigation. 

Well first of all, you go to the police and say "I think that a crime's been committed".   Then the police investigate, look at the evidence, decide whether there's anything in it.  If there is, it goes to the PF who decide whether to proceed or net, then it goes to court.

All Rangers have done is say "we think someone needs to have a look at this".   I can't see why so many people are so resistant to someone independent and suitably competent in doing just exactly that.    Well I can but that's got more to do with who's making the allegations rather than anything to do with proper due process.

I don't think anyone should simply accept whatever Rangers are saying as fact, similarly I don't think anyone should accept what the SPFL are saying as gospel.   

It should always raise suspicions whenever any organisation is reluctant to allow an independent investigation into anything.   If there's nothing to see why not agree to the investigation. 

 

[kumnio]

5 minutes ago, aaid said:

Well first of all, you go to the police and say "I think that a crime's been committed".   Then the police investigate, look at the evidence, decide whether there's anything in it.  If there is, it goes to the PF who decide whether to proceed or net, then it goes to court.

All Rangers have done is say "we think someone needs to have a look at this".   I can't see why so many people are so resistant to someone independent and suitably competent in doing just exactly that.    Well I can but that's got more to do with who's making the allegations rather than anything to do with proper due process.

I don't think anyone should simply accept whatever Rangers are saying as fact, similarly I don't think anyone should accept what the SPFL are saying as gospel.   

It should always raise suspicions whenever any organisation is reluctant to allow an independent investigation into anything.   If there's nothing to see why not agree to the investigation. 

Rangers say they had a dossier showing serious wrong doings, and called for employees to be suspended. You would assume that they had evidence to back this up? The document they have release is full of questions, and offers very little evidence to warrant an investigation, let alone suspensions.

Thats the biggest issue here. You don't promise conclusive evidence, but release a question mark.

The dossier has been released for one purpose (allegedly) to convince other clubs that wrong doings have taken place, and to ask for an independent inquiry. You don't get that by asking questions, you get that by providing some evidence, surely thats just common sense. You need to convince 75% (I think) of clubs to vote with them, and this will not achieve this.

I don't like the SPFL, I think they are useless. I don't like the outcome of this vote, or even the premise behind it. And I really don't like Doncaster. I wouldn't believe any of them as far as I could kick them, but these people arent claiming things, one party is, and they need to back that up, which they arent anywhere close to IMO.

 

[Farcity]

15 minutes ago, aaid said:

Well first of all, you go to the police and say "I think that a crime's been committed".   Then the police investigate, look at the evidence, decide whether there's anything in it.  If there is, it goes to the PF who decide whether to proceed or net, then it goes to court.

All Rangers have done is say "we think someone needs to have a look at this".   I can't see why so many people are so resistant to someone independent and suitably competent in doing just exactly that.    Well I can but that's got more to do with who's making the allegations rather than anything to do with proper due process.

I don't think anyone should simply accept whatever Rangers are saying as fact, similarly I don't think anyone should accept what the SPFL are saying as gospel.   

It should always raise suspicions whenever any organisation is reluctant to allow an independent investigation into anything.   If there's nothing to see why not agree to the investigation. 

 

But before you go to the police you don't start demanding hangings, lynchings, resignations etc. They don't do walking away yet they expected others to do it because they stamped their feet like an 8 year old. ( Which, funnily enough, is what they are.)