ceudmilefailte Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 minute ago, noctonjock said: Ok if you say so. Captain of Leeds once again tells me somebody knows different Championship team of the year as well which probably means at least two people know different.(assuming only one person chose the team---unlikely to say the least) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 22 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said: My definition of 'world-class" is a player that could play for, and enhance, any team on the planet. That's Andy Robertson. Andy Robertson has proven himself in England and in Europe. To Liverpool fans, i'd say that they already hold him in the same esteem as Souness, Dalglish and Hansen. In my opinion, we have one world class player (Robertson) and three very good players (McTominay, Fraser and Tierney). One plays for Man United and the other two were linked with Arsenal. Again, in my opinion, the other players in and around the squad are average. Growing up we had players like Collins, McAllister, Lambert and then Fletcher and Ferguson. Those midfielders were genuine class. I'd even say that Lambert was world class (Nullifying a great Man United side in the semi and marking Zidane out of the European cup final, as well as setting up one of the goals) We had midfielders who were playing for Borussia Dortmund, Monaco, Liverpool. Now it's Villa, Southampton and Celtic. It's not good enough and no one here should be content to talk up players like McGregor, Christie or McGinn as they haven't done anything to justify the hype or adulation. Midfield is our strongest area at the moment but at their peak Collins, Lambert and McAllister were a cut above any midfielder we have now. Granted, our current crop are younger than they were when they were in their Scotland pomp (hopefully some of our current batch will reach or eclipse those levels) but considering that was our first choice midfield the last time we actually qualified for something they should be the benchmark. That said, if our options in defence (with the exception of left-back) and up front were as good in midfield I'd feel a lot more confident about qualifying. Oh, and in goal too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 23 hours ago, wee-toon-red said: Liam Cooper is hopeless. Passing stats are pretty meaningless for a defender. You could be right. But with John Souttar looking like he might have picked up a serious injury yesterday and David Bates seemingly out of the picture at Hamburg it's a distinct possibility that he might be in the next squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 For me world class is being in the top 4 or 5 in your position. Robertson is probably one of the top 5 best fullbacks in the world right now so I would say he is world class. If your being really strict about world class then he probably isn't world class. It all depends on what world class means to different ppl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, scotlad said: You could be right. But with John Souttar looking like he might have picked up a serious injury yesterday and David Bates seemingly out of the picture at Hamburg it's a distinct possibility that he might be in the next squad. I think someone competent on distribution and ball retention is an excellent weapon to have in your defence and for our squad and how we play, it would be silly for us not to look at Liam Cooper. Bates I don't have an issue with, his headed clearances have impressed me but having Bates and McKenna when we don't have someone like Charlie Mulgrew barking orders in the squad makes me extremely nervous when we play quality opposition - and being quite frank, I don't want to include Mulgrew just to accommodate a Bates/McKenna starting central pairing. I have advocated for that in past squads once they have been announced though. I feel bad for Souttar to have another injury, these are not re-occurring injuries especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 😂 Edited August 5, 2019 by 0Neils40yarder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 What you all upset about @ONeils40yarder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, 0Neils40yarder said: Fucking hell 😂 10 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: For me world class is being in the top 4 or 5 in your position. Robertson is probably one of the top 5 best fullbacks in the world right now so I would say he is world class. If your being really strict about world class then he probably isn't world class. It all depends on what world class means to different ppl. Fucking hell 😂 Edited August 5, 2019 by 0Neils40yarder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanticscot Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: For me world class is being in the top 4 or 5 in your position. Robertson is probably one of the top 5 best fullbacks in the world right now so I would say he is world class. If your being really strict about world class then he probably isn't world class. It all depends on what world class means to different ppl. What do you consider strict to exclude Robertson from being World Class? Over the summer, I was reading an article on transfer fee's and they were valuing players, they had Robertson valued at about 60-70 million. I am not saying valuation necessarily means world class just pointing out the valuation. He was valued I believe the 3rd most expensive in his position which I found surprising - I bet I could find it if I looked, I'll post it if I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 world-class /ˈwəːldklɑːs/ adjective (of a person, thing, or activity) of or among the best in the world. "a world-class player" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 That should clear this all up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 4 hours ago, romanticscot said: 18 months would be getting there, a purple patch for a few games would not be. If you getting at Andy Robertson only having 18 months of great football, I disagree there but I understand the first few months of being at Liverpool he was not a regular starter, but his form at Hull in the Premier League was great also, Championship even also but I cant include that a high enough standard to be considered suitable criteria for discussion. He changed clubs, adapted and has gone on from strength to strength all the while being consistent for us. 18 months of playing consistently at the highest level. In terms of being described as world class I doubt anyone would include his time before Liverpool. 3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: The notion that Andy Robertson is anything other than World Class is fucking bonkers Guess it depends on how you define world class. It’s unlikely but if Robertson’s form dropped and he lost his place at Liverpool, then dropped down the league would he still be world class? Probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csinclair Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Lawrence Shankland picking up where he left off last season by scoring 4 in a game. Disappointed that Liam Kelly was on the bench for QPR against Stoke. Liam Lindsay missed that game through suspension. Michael Rose made his debut for Coventry. Apparently a lad to keep an eye on as he's been tipped to play at a higher level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said: Guess it depends on how you define world class. It’s unlikely but if Robertson’s form dropped and he lost his place at Liverpool, then dropped down the league would he still be world class? Probably not. I'm not sure I get this? Isn't this also true for Messi, Ronaldo, or any other player who may be considered world class? Edited August 6, 2019 by mrniaboc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, mrniaboc said: I'm not sure I get this? Isn't this also true for Messi, Ronaldo, or any other player who may be considered world class? No, I look at world class as something you achieve and then retire, not something you achieve after less than 2 years playing at the highest level. Maybe its a term that’s better given near the end of a career, I don’t know. I think I’ll be in the minority here, I was slaughtered by my mates for saying something similar about Mbappe last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, csinclair said: Lawrence Shankland picking up where he left off last season by scoring 4 in a game. Disappointed that Liam Kelly was on the bench for QPR against Stoke. Liam Lindsay missed that game through suspension. Michael Rose made his debut for Coventry. Apparently a lad to keep an eye on as he's been tipped to play at a higher level. If Lawrence shankland keeps this scoring up Dundee United will make a tidy profit on him in January. Quite amazing that no spl teams took a chance on him, surely hibs or hearts could of offered a contract to him. Would anyone in here want him in the Scotland squad, the championship is a poor quality of football but he's quite clearly a level above it. Personally I would prefer to see him at a better level before we give him a call up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 6 hours ago, romanticscot said: What do you consider strict to exclude Robertson from being World Class? Over the summer, I was reading an article on transfer fee's and they were valuing players, they had Robertson valued at about 60-70 million. I am not saying valuation necessarily means world class just pointing out the valuation. He was valued I believe the 3rd most expensive in his position which I found surprising - I bet I could find it if I looked, I'll post it if I do. Not sure tbh, I just know that some ppl have different interpretations on what world class is and some ppl are very strict with their verdict on being world class. I would say Robertson is world class but I can understand why some ppl think he isnt. If he's not world class then he's extremely close to it imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyBlueScot Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: If Lawrence shankland keeps this scoring up Dundee United will make a tidy profit on him in January. Quite amazing that no spl teams took a chance on him, surely hibs or hearts could of offered a contract to him. Would anyone in here want him in the Scotland squad, the championship is a poor quality of football but he's quite clearly a level above it. Personally I would prefer to see him at a better level before we give him a call up. I've thought the same thing. I really hoped he'd move up so we can get a chance to really see what he can do. That said, if we get injuries again and he maintains this form then it's possible. What's the current order? 1. Griffiths 2. McBurnie 3. Naismith 4. Brophy 5. Fletcher 6. Stewart/Harper/McNulty/Burke.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 8 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: 18 months of playing consistently at the highest level. In terms of being described as world class I doubt anyone would include his time before Liverpool. Guess it depends on how you define world class. It’s unlikely but if Robertson’s form dropped and he lost his place at Liverpool, then dropped down the league would he still be world class? Probably not. The definition isnt up for debate... 'of, or amongst the best in the world' I think we can all agree Andy Robertson is among the best in the world. Will he always be? No... Is he just now? Without a shadow of a doubt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csinclair Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: If Lawrence shankland keeps this scoring up Dundee United will make a tidy profit on him in January. Quite amazing that no spl teams took a chance on him, surely hibs or hearts could of offered a contract to him. Would anyone in here want him in the Scotland squad, the championship is a poor quality of football but he's quite clearly a level above it. Personally I would prefer to see him at a better level before we give him a call up. I think a few SPL teams did try sign him but he said he wanted guaranteed first team football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 12 hours ago, noctonjock said: Ok if you say so. Captain of Leeds once again tells me somebody knows different It tells me that he's got leadership skills and is the best defender Leeds think they can afford. Doesn't mean he isn't a total bombscare. 12 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said: Championship team of the year as well which probably means at least two people know different.(assuming only one person chose the team---unlikely to say the least) Woopee doo, Championship team of the year. Still cost his team the playoffs by being hopeless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 8 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said: The definition isnt up for debate... 'of, or amongst the best in the world' I think we can all agree Andy Robertson is among the best in the world. Will he always be? No... Is he just now? Without a shadow of a doubt No but something like world class isn’t something you can gain and lose within a season or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 9 hours ago, wee-toon-red said: It tells me that he's got leadership skills and is the best defender Leeds think they can afford. Doesn't mean he isn't a total bombscare. Woopee doo, Championship team of the year. Still cost his team the playoffs by being hopeless. The PFA award is regarded by players in the Football League as the highest accolade available to them, due to it being picked by their fellow professionals. So yep being in the team of the year is something, probably more than the opinions of some armchair fan watching edited highlights and the occasional 90 minutes. Iv'e quoted his stats on here a couple of times to show just how heavily he is involved in games and allowing yourself to that much exposure makes it look like you make a lot of mistakes, it's much easier to hide. Love to know who you think should be in central defence for Scotland. Apart from Mulgrew none of them have played more than a couple of dozen games against decent opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said: No but something like world class isn’t something you can gain and lose within a season or two It actually is....hes currently one of the best in the world in his particular class. Its that definitive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said: The PFA award is regarded by players in the Football League as the highest accolade available to them, due to it being picked by their fellow professionals. So yep being in the team of the year is something, probably more than the opinions of some armchair fan watching edited highlights and the occasional 90 minutes. Iv'e quoted his stats on here a couple of times to show just how heavily he is involved in games and allowing yourself to that much exposure makes it look like you make a lot of mistakes, it's much easier to hide. Love to know who you think should be in central defence for Scotland. Apart from Mulgrew none of them have played more than a couple of dozen games against decent opposition. The only thing that makes a player look like they make a lot of mistakes is them actually making a lot of mistakes! It’s all well and good wanting to see plenty of the ball and get involved but if you are prone to a howler then the good stuff is pointless, and especially in your late 20s when you’re probably as good as you’re ever going to get. Fair play to him for getting into the select team for the championship but all that says is that, last season, he was better than most of the other diddies in that league, it doesn’t actually make him good. Mulgrew, McKenna, Souttar, and Findlay, are all better options than Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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