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Scottish players in action 19/20

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Just now, ceudmilefailte said:

You counting a competition Man Utd made 11 changes at half time in today? That has to be the worst cherry you have ever picked to substantiate your argument.

I googled it.

What do you mean?

The season hasn't even started yet.

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Just now, ceudmilefailte said:

Ok so what did Real Madrid win last year?

How many trophies have they won in the past 5 years?

One barren season makes them a bad club?

How's this even relevant to anything? We're talking about domestic medals for different nations. How many did we have last season? One? Robertson. If you want to keep playing the "What did Real Madrid win last season", then fine. I'm sure Spanish players won several medals last season.

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11 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

How many trophies have they won in the past 5 years?

One barren season makes them a bad club?

How's this even relevant to anything? We're talking about domestic medals for different nations. How many did we have last season? One? Robertson. If you want to keep playing the "What did Real Madrid win last season", then fine. I'm sure Spanish players won several medals last season.

You were asked what they had one last season, you implied they had with your condescending  reply of "google it"

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4 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

 You were asked what they had one last season, you implied they had with your condescending  reply of "google it"

Is this confusing you?

If there were a league table of nationalities who won medals last season (at the top level) then Scotland would be very low in the table. Robertson (Scottish) won one trophy.

I'm not sure why Real Madrid was brought up, as I'm sure Spanish players won dozen of top level medals last season.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight

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5 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

No. Our midfield options are probably as bad as it's ever been.

We only have one midfielder playing for a top club. The rest are making a living for teams that win nothing (apart from the Celtic players that win tin-pot trophies).

I mean, how many players (apart from the Celtic players) win trophies, or are in the running to win trophies? Robertson and McTominay. Two players is pretty dire.

And as far as an anchorman goes, we have no one on the horizon. The only one we have is McRorie and he's in, what, league one, for the season ahead? Not exactly anything to be optimistic about.

You have unrealistic expectations with regards our team. We have loads of central midfielders who can or could play for decent epl teams, as for centre back, right back and striker positions we have very few who could cut it in a top league. That's why most ppl on here feel we have strong centre midfield options. You seem to belittle the Celtic midfielders for winning trophies in Scotland but McGregor could easily play for a decent epl side and Christie is starting to look like he could as well. Wether our midfield options are better now than in the past 15 years is debatable imo but we have always been strong in centre midfield.

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

You have unrealistic expectations with regards our team. We have loads of central midfielders who can or could play for decent epl teams, as for centre back, right back and striker positions we have very few who could cut it in a top league. That's why most ppl on here feel we have strong centre midfield options. You seem to belittle the Celtic midfielders for winning trophies in Scotland but McGregor could easily play for a decent epl side and Christie is starting to look like he could as well. Wether our midfield options are better now than in the past 15 years is debatable imo but we have always been strong in centre midfield.

Apart from an aging Mulgrew I don't think we have played any central defender or right backs that have proved themselves even at championship level

Thought McBurnie might have been the answer up front but alarmingly he played five of his last six games behind the striker last season, 

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

You have unrealistic expectations with regards our team. We have loads of central midfielders who can or could play for decent epl teams, as for centre back, right back and striker positions we have very few who could cut it in a top league. That's why most ppl on here feel we have strong centre midfield options. You seem to belittle the Celtic midfielders for winning trophies in Scotland but McGregor could easily play for a decent epl side and Christie is starting to look like he could as well. Wether our midfield options are better now than in the past 15 years is debatable imo but we have always been strong in centre midfield.

I don't think my expectations are that high. I don't actually expect Scotland to win against anyone at the moment.  Isn't is a good thing to want more of our players to be playing with top clubs in top leagues and competing for major titles?

The fact that we only have two players who have a shot at winning major trophies is pathetic, especially putting into consideration that football is supposed to be our national sport. It gets even more pathetic when one of those players (Robertson) was ditched and left to pack shelves by our number one domestic team, and the other (McTominay) is a product of the Man United system.

I believe Tierney and Fraser could play for top clubs, too.

When you see a part-time Welsh club beat our third best team, and our fourth best team struggling against a tiny Georgian club, it's time to get real and be honest with ourselves. We aren't producing young players, the clubs aren't interesting in youth development, there's little or no blueprint and infrastructure in place to arrest the decline, there's no facilities, the SFA are only interested in pulling in money via the us muggings fans.

My enthusiasm for the Scotland national team is at an all time low, mainly because everyone (clubs, players, the SFA and to some extent, the fans) is fine with keeping with the status quo. 

No one seems to care.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight
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40 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I don't think my expectations are that high. I don't actually expect Scotland to win against anyone at the moment.  Isn't is a good thing to want more of our players to be playing with top clubs in top leagues and competing for major titles?

The fact that we only have two players who have a shot at winning major trophies is pathetic, especially putting into consideration that football is supposed to be our national sport. It gets even more pathetic when one of those players (Robertson) was ditched and left to pack shelves by our number one domestic team, and the other (McTominay) is a product of the Man United system.

I believe Tierney and Fraser could play for top clubs, too.

When you see a part-time Welsh club beat our third best team, and our fourth best team struggling against a tiny Georgian club, it's time to get real and be honest with ourselves. We aren't producing young players, the clubs aren't interesting in youth development, there's little or no blueprint and infrastructure in place to arrest the decline, there's no facilities, the SFA are only interested in pulling in money via the us muggings fans.

My enthusiasm for the Scotland national team is at an all time low, mainly because everyone (clubs, players, the SFA and to some extent, the fans) is fine with keeping with the status quo. 

No one seems to care.

So how do you change all that lot if they/we are part of the problem? 

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The Dark Knight index could be a useful indicator of fluctuating success on a year on year basis. This year our DKI is 1.0.

But it can be tracked. Probably in the late 70s we could have had half a dozen in some years?  (Liverpool ascendancy?) But then sinking through the 80s as fewer Scots in top Football League sides (and those sides out of Europe)... Then the occasional player for Leeds, Blackburn etc, probably we have had lean years for many years. OK, Paul Lambert. Etc. But it could be worked out properly if someone had the time. 

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10 minutes ago, exile said:

So how do you change all that lot if they/we are part of the problem? 

I wish I knew.

Gut Scottish football. Root and branch. I know that it's much easier said than done, but someone has to be done, otherwise it will get worse. I remember Germany ripping up their system and starting from scratch a while back. France did it.

Will we do it? No. And that's really the thing that depresses me.

Surely I can't be the only one who is sick and tired of the malaise in Scottish football? What really annoys me is when people watch McGregor and Christie or whomever ripping apart teams in the SPL, and those players get praise for it. Players and teams should not be judged by playing against free transfers and waifs and strays.

 

 

Edited by The_Dark_Knight

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2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I wish I knew.

Gut Scottish football. Root and branch. I know that it's much easier said than done, but someone has to be done, otherwise it will get worse. I remember Germany ripping up their system and starting from scratch a while back. France did it.

Will we do it? No. And that's really the thing that depresses me.

Surely I can't be the only one who is sick and tired of the malaise in Scottish football? What really annoys me is when people watch McGregor and Christie or whomever ripping apart teams in the SPL, and those players get praise for it. Players and teams should not be judged by playing against free transfers and waifs and strays.

 

 

Having an international sense of perspective, or learning from best practice overseas, are  fine. 

But taken to extreme you are in danger of writing off the entire domestic game - of most European leagues - as worthless. 

What would be your model example for an existing  small European country set up?

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21 minutes ago, exile said:

Having an international sense of perspective, or learning from best practice overseas, are  fine. 

But taken to extreme you are in danger of writing off the entire domestic game - of most European leagues - as worthless. 

What would be your model example for an existing  small European country set up?

Let's be completely honest here, the state of our game is a shambles. We have what, three organizations running our game? Plus the fact that the clubs vote in the members of the SFA. It's akin to the tail wagging the Dog in our football. The SFA can't do anything radical like limit foreign players, etc, as the clubs will just vote to get rid of the members that want change.

Look at countries that are countries who have similar populace to us, like Croatia, who literally have no foundation at FA level, and yet they can get to a World Cup final. Denmark, who are what, 13th in the world? A European Championships under their belt. Hell, when you look at the infrastructure of Iceland (300k people) it dwarves ours and makes us look like a footballing third world nation.

Surely we can take bits from the French, Belgium, Iceland, Germany, etc, and implement it in a smaller scale. And Croatia, how the hell do they keep producing such technically great players?!

I, for one, am sick of the fat cats of the SFA and the domestic clubs only looking after number one, irrespective of the dire situation that the national team find themselves in.

OK. Standing off of my soap-box as this thread is going off topic, and for that I apologize to the OP.

Edited by The_Dark_Knight

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3 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I don't think my expectations are that high. I don't actually expect Scotland to win against anyone at the moment.  Isn't is a good thing to want more of our players to be playing with top clubs in top leagues and competing for major titles?

The fact that we only have two players who have a shot at winning major trophies is pathetic, especially putting into consideration that football is supposed to be our national sport. It gets even more pathetic when one of those players (Robertson) was ditched and left to pack shelves by our number one domestic team, and the other (McTominay) is a product of the Man United system.

I believe Tierney and Fraser could play for top clubs, too.

When you see a part-time Welsh club beat our third best team, and our fourth best team struggling against a tiny Georgian club, it's time to get real and be honest with ourselves. We aren't producing young players, the clubs aren't interesting in youth development, there's little or no blueprint and infrastructure in place to arrest the decline, there's no facilities, the SFA are only interested in pulling in money via the us muggings fans.

My enthusiasm for the Scotland national team is at an all time low, mainly because everyone (clubs, players, the SFA and to some extent, the fans) is fine with keeping with the status quo. 

No one seems to care.

Sorry but your expectations are far too high. Realistic expectations for me is to have three or four players playing for top 6 epl clubs or top European clubs eg. Barca, real etc. Then have 9 or 10 players that are good players in top leagues or playing for a decent Celtic team who get into the champs league. Then the rest of the squad should be good at English chamiponship level or spl.  Ideally these players would be spread evenly so we have a player for every position. Currently we are not that far away from this situation. We have Robertson Fraser mctominay Tierney who are at top 6 epl clubs or about to move there. We then have another 6 or 7 players who are good epl level players. We are short on about 3 or 4 epl class players in key positions ie right back, centre back. Obviously I expect a good manager who can mould a team together and get us to qualify for tournaments and to try and punch above our weight against bigger nations. If anyone on this board expects massively more than what I have just described then they are going to be massively disappointed. Also where is this high expectations coming from, we haven't qualified for tournaments in 20 plus years. Suddenly expecting world class players in every position is ludicrous to say the least. 

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16 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

No. Our midfield options are probably as bad as it's ever been.

We only have one midfielder playing for a top club. The rest are making a living for teams that win nothing (apart from the Celtic players that win tin-pot trophies).

I mean, how many players (apart from the Celtic players) win trophies, or are in the running to win trophies? Robertson and McTominay. Two players is pretty dire.

And as far as an anchorman goes, we have no one on the horizon. The only one we have is McRorie and he's in, what, league one, for the season ahead? Not exactly anything to be optimistic about.

I mean, McTominay has won nothing so far (I realise you said in the running..), and until Man United shape up I'm not sure you can fire him in that category. Winning the odd FA/League Cup is hardly the hallmark of a true winner.

Edited by Tartan_McCole

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7 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Sorry but your expectations are far too high. Realistic expectations for me is to have three or four players playing for top 6 epl clubs or top European clubs eg. Barca, real etc. Then have 9 or 10 players that are good players in top leagues or playing for a decent Celtic team who get into the champs league. Then the rest of the squad should be good at English chamiponship level or spl.  Ideally these players would be spread evenly so we have a player for every position. Currently we are not that far away from this situation. We have Robertson Fraser mctominay Tierney who are at top 6 epl clubs or about to move there. We then have another 6 or 7 players who are good epl level players. We are short on about 3 or 4 epl class players in key positions ie right back, centre back. Obviously I expect a good manager who can mould a team together and get us to qualify for tournaments and to try and punch above our weight against bigger nations. If anyone on this board expects massively more than what I have just described then they are going to be massively disappointed. Also where is this high expectations coming from, we haven't qualified for tournaments in 20 plus years. Suddenly expecting world class players in every position is ludicrous to say the least. 

Totally agree with this. That's not to say I don't commend TDK for his moon shot, it's just not practical or realistic. 

I think it's important to point out that most of the successful small countries who were highlighted (Belgium, Denmark, Croatia etc) all have squads with players from mid-table EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A teams, and not that many from the top teams in their own domestic league. The more good Scottish players who leave Rangers and Celtic for teams like Wolves and Leicester the better in my opinion. Obviously I'd prefer they left for teams like Barcelona and Bayern Munich, but we're not quite there yet. In the meantime get them out of the Scottish Premiership and get them some real top level experience. We're clinging on to the past too much. We're currently ranked as the 25th best league in Europe and it's time some ambitious players started to take note of that. 

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21 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

Does anyone know if Armstrong's been featuring in Southampton's pre season games? Saw a very short clip of their defeat of Preston and the third goal looked to be set up by him.

Hasn't been in any of the lineups I've seen. 

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Rangers and Man Utd u21s are playing at 1730h on BBC Sport website. Perhaps a glimpse into the future of the national team. Look out for Alex Lowry of Rangers. I doubt if there’ll be many 21 year olds involved.

: Correction - Lowry not playing.

Edited by er yir macaroon

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18 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

Beautiful! 

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John McGinn is better playing as a number 10.

If he's in the center of midfield he has to be part of a three man midfield as he empties the midfield too often to be trusted.

And he's certainly not an anchorman.

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8 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

John McGinn is better playing as a number 10.

If he's in the center of midfield he has to be part of a three man midfield as he empties the midfield too often to be trusted.

And he's certainly not an anchorman.

100% agree.

Btw, it's time for you to make a 3 ATB thread. You nearly had me convinced, then you got banned.

I like that your new initials are TDK, which were cassette tapes that were famed for repeating the same record thousands of times and never wearing out. :ok::P 

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Nah he's a box to box player, Grealish ain't moving from number 10 spot anytime soon.

Think his issue at international level the pace of the game is slower and yes his passing isn't always as accurate as it should be hence the mistakes which have cost goals.

Will certainly need to sharpen up that area for premier league.

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