Scottish players in action 19/20

[ceudmilefailte]

5 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Don't rate Hanley tbh, very much in the Liam Cooper camp of being slow and cumbersome. He hardly played last season although don't know if he was injured. Norwich first choice CB is injured so it will be back to the bench when he's fit again just like at Newcastle.

Hopefully McLean can hold his own in premier league, there's a nice group of central midfielders bubbling at the top level now.

Can have all the midfielders we want but if we don't find central defenders we aren't going anywhere 

[Burj_Alba]

Nice to see that big Grant has been working on his technique over the summer 😂😂

[Tartan Chris]

14 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Can have all the midfielders we want but if we don't find central defenders we aren't going anywhere 

Well I don't mind Mulgrew but he's getting a bit old now, will still get called up up to end of this qualifying campaign you'd suspect.

Think McKenna if he gets a good move to England can develop into competant international CB although like everyone else he was poor in Kazhakstan.

Slim pickings certainly. Souttar is having another season in league one so seems his development has stalled a bit if Stoke don't even think he's good enough for mid table championship standard.

[ceudmilefailte]

3 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Well I don't mind Mulgrew but he's getting a bit old now, will still get called up up to end of this qualifying campaign you'd suspect.

Think McKenna if he gets a good move to England can develop into competant international CB although like everyone else he was poor in Kazhakstan.

Slim pickings certainly. Souttar is having another season in league one so seems his development has stalled a bit if Stoke don't even think he's good enough for mid table championship standard.

Thought that Harry Souttar was Australian now

[noctonjock]

Hanley is way out his depth in the EPL . 

[mccaughey85]

17 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

Hanley is way out his depth in the EPL . 

Tbf alot of epl fodder teams get humped these days by the big 6. But yes your right he is out of his depth

[The_Dark_Knight]

36 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

Hanley is way out his depth in the EPL . 

He's no better or worse than McKenna or Souttar or Bates, etc. Which underlines the lack of talent we have at center back.

And for all intents and purposes McLean is a starter for us, and yet he's barely had a touch tonight. Which sums up our midfield "talent".

[ceudmilefailte]

Lets just pretend that game didn't happen

[The_Dark_Knight]

It'll be the same tomorrow for McGinn when Villa play Spurs.

[mrniaboc]

1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

He's no better or worse than McKenna or Souttar or Bates, etc. Which underlines the lack of talent we have at center back.

And for all intents and purposes McLean is a starter for us, and yet he's barely had a touch tonight. Which sums up our midfield "talent".

Our 8th best midfielder struggled against one of the best teams in the world?! Shocker. 

 

[The_Dark_Knight]

6 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

Our 8th best midfielder struggled against one of the best teams in the world?! Shocker. 

 

8th? Behind which 7 central midfielders?

McLean started the previous three Scotland matches, so I think he's a lot higher than 8th.

In my opinion, the only midfielder McLean is behind is McTominay. Shinnie, McGregor, McLean, Fleck, Armstrong, etc, are all interchangeable and much of an averageness.

[mrniaboc]

42 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

8th? Behind which 7 central midfielders?

McLean started the previous three Scotland matches, so I think he's a lot higher than 8th.

In my opinion, the only midfielder McLean is behind is McTominay. Shinnie, McGregor, McLean, Fleck, Armstrong, etc, are all interchangeable and much of an averageness.

I like McLean but I'd rate McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Christie, Cairney, and MacArthur above him. 

Arbitrary rankings aside though, my pint was more that you shouldn't sum out our midfield talent by judging a single player on their performance against the European champions on their home turf. 

[JECK]

1 hour ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

It'll be the same tomorrow for McGinn when Villa play Spurs.

Very intrigued by his introduction to the premier league tomorrow. I'd agree he might not be up to it technically and get found it, he also has another side to his game which has proved to be too much physically for opponents which as allowed him to influence and win important games. Im backing him to show up well against the top 6 teams 

Edited August 9, 2019 by JECK

[The_Dark_Knight]

2 hours ago, mrniaboc said:

I like McLean but I'd rate McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Christie, Cairney, and MacArthur above him. 

Arbitrary rankings aside though, my pint was more that you shouldn't sum out our midfield talent by judging a single player on their performance against the European champions on their home turf. 

I only rate McTominay from that lot. 

I get your point, I do, but do you remember the two matches were McTominay won over the United fans? PSG (away) and Barcelona (home). In the PSG match he was pretty much a wall that PSG just couldn't break through. He ordered much more experienced team mates and he pretty much knitted the defence and midfield together. Against Barcelona he had a more all action box-to-box display. In both matches he was the absolutely stand out player for Manchester United. In the PSG match he was pretty much doing the work of two players, at times.

Top players thrive when faced against the best teams and the best players. McTominay is one of those players. Even when his team-mates were wilting, he kept his head and lead by example. Looking around, he's by far the best midfielder we have, the rest are extremely limited.

In pre-season United played Spurs. He was tremendous. Praying the ball around, bullying players and pretty much being a bit of a machine. What impressed me most was when James was being treated to a lot of dodgy tackled, including a stamp on his arm. McTominay was having none of it and stepped in, including going head to head against Kane. It was very Roy Keanesque.

2 hours ago, JECK said:

Very intrigued by his introduction to the premier league tomorrow. I'd agree he might not be up to it technically and get found it, he also has another side to his game which has proved to be too much physically for opponents which as allowed him to influence and win important games. Im backing him to show up well against the top 6 teams 

It'll definitely be worth tuning in for. Hopefully McGinn doesn't shrink and be anonymous like McLean was yesterday. 

Who knows, if he really shows up today and is a stand-out then it could be the making of him. Hopefully it is. We could do with another top class midfielder.

Edited August 10, 2019 by The_Dark_Knight

[Dave78]

2 hours ago, JECK said:

Very intrigued by his introduction to the premier league tomorrow. I'd agree he might not be up to it technically and get found it, he also has another side to his game which has proved to be too much physically for opponents which as allowed him to influence and win important games. Im backing him to show up well against the top 6 teams 

Aye, i'll be watching him with interest. We know his weaknesses from watching his performances for Scotland. But as someone on here said, (forgive me, i cannae remember your name) a season in the EPL will help him eliminate those faults, and make him the better player for us.

[Dave78]

2 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I only rate McTominay from that lot. 

I get your point, I do, but do you remember the two matches were McTominay won over the United fans? PSG (away) and Barcelona (home). In the PSG match he was pretty much a wall that PSG just couldn't break through. He ordered much more experienced team mates and he pretty much knitted the defence and midfield together. Against Barcelona he had a more all action box-to-box display. In both matches he was the absolutely stand out player for Manchester United. In the PSG match he was pretty much doing the work of two players, at times.

Top players thrive when faced against the best teams and the best players. McTominay is one of those players. Even when his team-mates were wilting, he kept his head and lead by example. Looking around, he's by far the best midfielder we have, the rest are extremely limited.

Accurate assessment. But at the same time you need to accept that your definition of 'rate' is way higher than most others. It's almost like you want us to win the Euros. I just want us to fuckin qualify.

[The_Dark_Knight]

1 minute ago, Dave78 said:

Accurate assessment. But at the same time you need to accept that your definition of 'rate' is way higher than most others. It's almost like you want us to win the Euros. I just want us to fuckin qualify.

I know. Some people here are suggesting that I'm negative, etc. I'm not. I just have high standards. I wish the SFA and our domestic clubs had my standards as we would be in a healthier state.

The whole structure of Scottish football is embarrassing. Our two best players are McTominay and Robertson. One is a product of the English/Man United system and the other only made it to the top of the tree through his own grit and determination after being thrown on the scrapheap by Celtic for being too small. The SFA and the clubs in Scotland are not fit for purpose. It's chaos with absolutely no design.

Win the Euros? Forget winning it, even qualifying for it, I just want us to win a match against a good side... and deserve it! 

[Dave78]

5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I know. Some people here are suggesting that I'm negative, etc. I'm not. I just have high standards. I wish the SFA and our domestic clubs had my standards as we would be in a healthier state.

"My high standards". The SFA and our domestic clubs could have the highest of super-high standards. But that's meaningless. What are you suggesting they actually change?

 

5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

The whole structure of Scottish football is embarrassing. Our two best players are McTominay and Robertson. One is a product of the English/Man United system and the other only made it to the top of the tree through his own grit and determination after being thrown on the scrapheap by Celtic for being too small. The SFA and the clubs in Scotland are not fit for purpose. It's chaos with absolutely no design.

And the other players you rate - Forrest and Fraser? That's two, which must cancel out your point about McTominay and Robbo (Dundee Utd btw).

5 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

Win the Euros? Forget winning it, even qualifying for it, I just want us to win a match against a good side... and deserve it! 

The thing is, nowadays average teams qualify for the Euros. I think it's literally half (correct me if i'm wrong). 

[Toepoke]

Goal for Griffiths 

[DOUBLE A]

1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Goal for Griffiths 

Forrest and Christie as well 

[bigfingers]

11 hours ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I know. Some people here are suggesting that I'm negative, etc. I'm not. I just have high standards. I wish the SFA and our domestic clubs had my standards as we would be in a healthier state.

The whole structure of Scottish football is embarrassing. Our two best players are McTominay and Robertson. One is a product of the English/Man United system and the other only made it to the top of the tree through his own grit and determination after being thrown on the scrapheap by Celtic for being too small. The SFA and the clubs in Scotland are not fit for purpose. It's chaos with absolutely no design.

Win the Euros? Forget winning it, even qualifying for it, I just want us to win a match against a good side... and deserve it! 

Theres plenty successful products from the scottish youth system. Tierney, Fraser and Mcginn is hardly embarrassing. Fraser has done more down south than mctominay has. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by bigfingers

[The_Dark_Knight]

11 hours ago, Dave78 said:

"My high standards". The SFA and our domestic clubs could have the highest of super-high standards. But that's meaningless. What are you suggesting they actually change?

So many things. As it stands right now, the clubs are in charge of the SFA. That shouldn't be the case. It's akin to the tail wagging the dog. The SFA should restructure themselves so that their members get voted in by other means, as opposed to being voted in by the self-serving clubs.

• There should be a limit of foreign players allowed in a match squad and in a first 11.
• Instead of 7 performance schools there should be 100s, eventually.
• More indoor facilitates and 5-a-side pitches being built.
• If a SPL team earns x amount of money they should be taxed and that money should filter through the rest of the SPL teams. Celtic and Rangers won't like this, but what are they going to do? Form their own two team league? The English don't want them and their baggage so that only leaves the league of Ireland...
• In terms of what goes on in the stands. Last week we saw a display by Celtic that was political (and confusing) and Rangers fans destroying Kilmarnock property, and always killing disabled people in the process. I'd send a well vetted trouble-shooter to every single SPL match. If a team either waves a political banner, sings sectarian and hateful songs or their fans conduct themselves in a hooliganistic manner, I'd dock them points. I'd dock a team three points were indiscretion, with a total of nine points per match. I'll guarantee, once a team is docked three points for anti-social behavior, fans will learn to behave.

12 hours ago, Dave78 said:

And the other players you rate - Forrest and Fraser? That's two, which must cancel out your point about McTominay and Robbo (Dundee Utd btw).

No. Tierney and Fraser. The Celtic rejection pre-empts the Dundee United thing.

Are you honestly saying that Scottish clubs producing three good players in a single fell swoop is good enough? I don't.

12 hours ago, Dave78 said:

The thing is, nowadays average teams qualify for the Euros. I think it's literally half (correct me if i'm wrong). 

I'd say that every team who qualified for Euro '16 would beat us. We might be able to go toe-to-toe with Northern Ireland... maybe. But Wales? They're perpetually beating us.

59 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

Theres plenty successful products from the scottish youth system. Tierney, Fraser and Mcginn is hardly embarrassing. Fraser has done more down south than mctominay has. 

Football is supposed to be our main sport and yet we're perpetually churning out English League One standard players, with the odd Championship/bottom 10 of the EPL player, That, to me, is highly embarrassing.

[csinclair]

Goal for Cairney

[Dave78]

25 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

So many things. As it stands right now, the clubs are in charge of the SFA. That shouldn't be the case. It's akin to the tail wagging the dog. The SFA should restructure themselves so that their members get voted in by other means, as opposed to being voted in by the self-serving clubs.

• There should be a limit of foreign players allowed in a match squad and in a first 11.
• Instead of 7 performance schools there should be 100s, eventually.
• More indoor facilitates and 5-a-side pitches being built.
• If a SPL team earns x amount of money they should be taxed and that money should filter through the rest of the SPL teams. Celtic and Rangers won't like this, but what are they going to do? Form their own two team league? The English don't want them and their baggage so that only leaves the league of Ireland...
• In terms of what goes on in the stands. Last week we saw a display by Celtic that was political (and confusing) and Rangers fans destroying Kilmarnock property, and always killing disabled people in the process. I'd send a well vetted trouble-shooter to every single SPL match. If a team either waves a political banner, sings sectarian and hateful songs or their fans conduct themselves in a hooliganistic manner, I'd dock them points. I'd dock a team three points were indiscretion, with a total of nine points per match. I'll guarantee, once a team is docked three points for anti-social behavior, fans will learn to behave.

 

All good stuff. Though i don't think the 100 performance schools and loads of indoor pitches are practical for the SFA. It'd need government funding.

Your Rangers fans "always" killing disabled fans typo raised a smile. 

25 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

No. Tierney and Fraser. The Celtic rejection pre-empts the Dundee United thing.

Are you honestly saying that Scottish clubs producing three good players in a single fell swoop is good enough? I don't.

Comparisons with England are lazy, i know. But multiply that 3 good players by 10 (based on the relative size of our countries), and we have a team capable of challenging for honours.

Of course, our ambition should be to become a Croatia. A small nation that consistently knocks out top quality players every year. But if it was that easy then everyone would be doing it.

25 minutes ago, The_Dark_Knight said:

I'd say that every team who qualified for Euro '16 would beat us. We might be able to go toe-to-toe with Northern Ireland... maybe. But Wales? They're perpetually beating us.

 

C'mon, Albania qualified for Euro 16 ffs. A team we just humped 6-0 over 2 legs.

[The_Dark_Knight]

1 minute ago, Dave78 said:

All good stuff. Though i don't think the 100 performance schools and loads of indoor pitches are practical for the SFA. It'd need government funding.

Your Rangers fans "always" killing disabled fans typo raised a smile. 

Remember I said that I would tax the Old Firm? Along with distributing the money to the other 10 clubs, I'd also set up a coffee for performance schools, etc, with that money. Let's face it, the Old Firm have taken to much from Scottish football over the years, it's time for them to give something back. Even it's by force.

Hell, the "Green Brigade" think that "Everyone is keeping them down" as it is, so why not give them a reason to think it.

The dreaded typo!

5 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

Comparisons with England are lazy, i know. But multiply that 3 good players by 10 (based on the relative size of our countries), and we have a team capable of challenging for honours.

Of course, our ambition should be to become a Croatia. A small nation that consistently knocks out top quality players every year. But if it was that easy then everyone would be doing it.

I don't know. By law of averages we should've qualified for something in the past 20 years, if we are as good as we think we are. The very fact that we haven't should be the wake-up call to everyone who cares about Scotland. Truthfully, if things continue as they are (and there's no reason to suggest it won't), Scotland will never qualify for another major tournament. 

The Croatia one is a puzzle. At FA level they have little to no infrastructure, and yet they keep producing stars! If you look at every generation for as long as I can remember they've had players who have unbelievable talent. 

And on that. Scotland is a little country and yet there's three governing bodies. It's insane.

11 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

C'mon, Albania qualified for Euro 16 ffs. A team we just humped 6-0 over 2 legs.

Ah. OK. I'll give you that one.