Should McLeish Be Sacked IF We Lose?

[Orraloon]

42 minutes ago, sbcmfc said:

I’ve always considered McLeish a “lucky manager” and certainly early in his managerial careee seemed to be in the right place at the right time.

He inherited a great team from Tommy McLean at Motherwell, but got more out of them. Due to his horrendous signings things were starting to go south when he left for an all but relegated Hibs, he managed to bring them back up, which was seen as a success. He then moves onto Rangers and has success, but also makes some horrendous signings.

i thought he’d peaked at that point, then he gets the national team job, and inherits a good experienced squad and gets great results on the whole, but goes to Birmingham before it comes to anything and wins a cup with them.

To try and sum up what I’m trying to say.

you make your own luck to a point, and the success McLeish has had in his management career has not all been luck.

I was pleased for him last night. You saw it meant a lot to him at the final whistle. He’s a likeable bloke.

There’s still something wrong with him though! He’s “only” 59 and comes across like an 80 year old in interviews, it’s a car crash when he’s talking.

To me, that bit is a load of nonsense. He speaks pretty much the same now as he did when he was 39 or even 29. He speaks with his mouth half closed and he always has done. It's just the way he speaks. 

I would like to see all the folk who come away with this sort of stuff, put in front of a camera and asked some awkward questions that you had no pre knowledge of. Have you ever been in that situation? I am convinced that at least half of you would come across as complete jibbering idiots. It's not as easy as it looks. I tried it once in a work situation and I would never, ever put myself through that again. Some folk are naturals and others just can't do it. 

 

[sbcmfc]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

To me, that bit is a load of nonsense. He speaks pretty much the same now as he did when he was 39 or even 29. He speaks with his mouth half closed and he always has done. It's just the way he speaks. 

I would like to see all the folk who come away with this sort of stuff, put in front of a camera and asked some awkward questions that you had no pre knowledge of. Have you ever been in that situation? I am convinced that at least half of you would come across as complete jibbering idiots. It's not as easy as it looks. I tried it once in a work situation and I would never, ever put myself through that again. Some folk are naturals and others just can't do it. 

 

It’s not the way he speaks as such.

Hes been a manager for 25 years and done various bits of punditry etc in that time as well as giving interviews when he was a player.

I don’t like all the innuendo around him, but it’s not without foundation, he’s all over the place in interviews. The one post Israel away in particular.

Perhaps his confidence has been dented badly, or maybe I had just never noticed it before and he has always been that way.

[Caledonian Craig]

I said this the other day and will say it again. I don't give a flying f*** how he sounds in press conferences. I couldn't care less if he has tourettes and yells obscenities every second word as long as we are getting the results - that is all that matters. Football is a results game not about how the manager sounds in a press conference.

[weekevie04]

I was against his appointment mostly down to being out of the game for an extended time (baring a wee spell in Egypt and Belgium); he went to a World Cup qualifying draw fully knowing he was leaving to go to Birmingham ; and it was time for a change from the usual SFA appointments.

I thankfully didn't seen the Israel away game so I'll take most people's word on it, but ''the worst ever Scotland performance'' I've heard more than once really does take some doing!

But the last two performances have been very exciting. There's a lot of work to be done and I do think a really good team will give us a good hiding, but whilst injuries/calloffs may have dealt his hand to a certain extent. I have been impressed with our style of play, trying to attack teams (OK, we were playing teams around our level but still, credit where its due).

He absolutely deserves another crack of the qualifying. A lot will depend on the draw, IMO ; if we are to qualify. I still think, we are a good bit behind the likes of most Pot 1 and 2 sides ; but the age, the 'Scottishness' homegrown of the last squad, are very exciting and I'm genuinely looking forward to 2nd of December then March to see how we do.

I really hope he tells the likes of Ritchie, etc that they are no required as first team squad members.

[RenfrewBlue]

1 hour ago, sbcmfc said:

It’s not the way he speaks as such.

Hes been a manager for 25 years and done various bits of punditry etc in that time as well as giving interviews when he was a player.

I don’t like all the innuendo around him, but it’s not without foundation, he’s all over the place in interviews. The one post Israel away in particular.

Perhaps his confidence has been dented badly, or maybe I had just never noticed it before and he has always been that way.

I do think he has been lacking in confidence recently, and that may well have impacted especially after the Israel defeat. Let's face it, the stories and abuse he's got since taking the Job would dent most folks confidence. 

Hopefully he gets a bit of that back now we've had a few decent results and performances.

Especially if it carries into the qualifying group games. Just need the draw to be reasonable and whoever organises the fixtures to get us a couple of winnable games up first. 

[sbcmfc]

4 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Especially if it carries into the qualifying group games. Just need the draw to be reasonable and whoever organises the fixtures to get us a couple of winnable games up first. 

I think UEFA tell you who plays who, where and when now?

Yes, played some really good football this week, and look better equipped to play tricky ties away from home than in the past, perhaps the call offs forcing his hand slightly has been another stroke of luck for McLeish, but i’ll take it.

[Texas Pete]

17 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Especially if it carries into the qualifying group games. Just need the draw to be reasonable and whoever organises the fixtures to get us a couple of winnable games up first. 

It’s all done by computer now. 

In the old days the FAs used to get together to negotiate the fixtures but it’s just all random now. 

I normally think if you start and finish with a home game (as we did in the Nations League), or at least start with a home game, and avoid the pot one team in these games then you’ve had a good draw.

We started away against Germany in our last Euro qualifiers and it felt like we were at a disadvantage early in the campaign. 

[RenfrewBlue]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

It’s all done by computer now. 

In the old days the FAs used to get together to negotiate the fixtures but it’s just all random now. 

I normally think if you start and finish with a home game (as we did in the Nations League), or at least start with a home game, and avoid the pot one team in these games then you’ve had a good draw.

We started away against Germany in our last Euro qualifiers and it felt like we were at a disadvantage early in the campaign. 

Didn't realise the old negotiation process was gone. It was about the only thing the SFA were good at. 

Agree that avoiding the pot 1 team in the first game is a good option but I'd push my luck and look for the home banker against the lowest ranked team first. 😁

Might as well hope for the best outcome. 

 

[Texas Pete]

20 minutes ago, RenfrewBlue said:

Didn't realise the old negotiation process was gone. It was about the only thing the SFA were good at. 

Agree that avoiding the pot 1 team in the first game is a good option but I'd push my luck and look for the home banker against the lowest ranked team first. 😁

Might as well hope for the best outcome. 

 

True although I’d prefer the home banker as our last match. 

Needing to beat Gibraltar at home to qualify or get a playoff seems a whole lot more attractive than going to Slovenia or playing Poland at home. We could already be out by then of course!

[RenfrewBlue]

4 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

True although I’d prefer the home banker as our last match. 

Needing to beat Gibraltar at home to qualify or get a playoff seems a whole lot more attractive than going to Slovenia or playing Poland at home. We could already be out by then of course!

Fair point. Maybe the away game to the minnows to start then. 🤔

[macy37]

What were/are the rankings of us, Israel and Albania please?

[RenfrewBlue]

15 minutes ago, macy37 said:

What were/are the rankings of us, Israel and Albania please?

I seem to remember we were 40 something, Israel were 50 something and Albania were 90 something but I can't remember details. 

[Texas Pete]

20 minutes ago, macy37 said:

What were/are the rankings of us, Israel and Albania please?

Not sure what the rankings were when the draw was made but they are currently:

Scotland - 40th

Albania - 60th

Israel - 91st

[macy37]

44 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Not sure what the rankings were when the draw was made but they are currently:

Scotland - 40th

Albania - 60th

Israel - 91st

So let’s not get carried away then eh? The response since Tuesday on here has been like we’ve beaten some real hot shots when the truth is anything but. Let’s also remember the 91st placed side rinsed us.

[mrniaboc]

13 minutes ago, macy37 said:

So let’s not get carried away then eh? The response since Tuesday on here has been like we’ve beaten some real hot shots when the truth is anything but. Let’s also remember the 91st placed side rinsed us.

You're right, we should focus on the negatives... BOOOOOOOOOOO to you good sir!

It doesn't matter the rankings of the teams. For the first time in a long time we had a job to do and we did it. With a team of supposedly low quality players, and a much derided manager nonetheless!

For the first time in 15 years we're in the playoffs. Try and enjoy it mate.

[macy37]

7 minutes ago, mrniaboc said:

You're right, we should focus on the negatives... BOOOOOOOOOOO to you good sir!

It doesn't matter the rankings of the teams. For the first time in a long time we had a job to do and we did it. With a team of supposedly low quality players, and a much derided manager nonetheless!

For the first time in 15 years we're in the playoffs. Try and enjoy it mate.

It is, however failure to do so would have been an utter disaster. Previous failures have been through the teams been ranked better than us (or maybe worse than us? I can’t remember if this has happened, Wales maybe?) doing their job exactly as we’ve at last managed to do. It isn’t an achievement that we really should be roaring about though. It’s one that we’d have needed shot if we hadn’t managed to do.

[Texas Pete]

If the world rankings are a true reflection of how good the three teams are then Albania are only 20 places behind us. They beat Wales last night so they’re not exactly San Marino. We beat them comfortably twice. 

We would have beat Israel very comfortably last night if it hadn’t been for two defensive lapses. 

Haifa was a terrible performance. It happens. Suck it up and move on. 

Lots of fans are just happy that we have secured a playoff if we need one (which we probably will) and have found a wee bit of form. I don’t think anyone believes we are now world beaters who will romp the qualifiers next year.

Why wouldn’t you just let people enjoy that instead of trying to bring them down to your negative viewpoint?

[Caledonian Craig]

4 hours ago, macy37 said:

So let’s not get carried away then eh? The response since Tuesday on here has been like we’ve beaten some real hot shots when the truth is anything but. Let’s also remember the 91st placed side rinsed us.

And let's just remember Albania who we thrashed just beat Wales ranked inside the top 20. Also let's just remember very recent past calamities against teams ranked below us that has cost us qualification. This time that has not happened so that is a cause to be happy. 

[Chripper]

4 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

If the world rankings are a true reflection of how good the three teams are then Albania are only 20 places behind us. They beat Wales last night so they’re not exactly San Marino. We beat them comfortably twice. 

We would have beat Israel very comfortably last night if it hadn’t been for two defensive lapses. 

Haifa was a terrible performance. It happens. Suck it up and move on. 

Lots of fans are just happy that we have secured a playoff if we need one (which we probably will) and have found a wee bit of form. I don’t think anyone believes we are now world beaters who will romp the qualifiers next year.

Why wouldn’t you just let people enjoy that instead of trying to bring them down to your negative viewpoint?

Mmm... what is it with society nowadays? It seems like if you haven't got a perma-smile on your face, your hands on auto-clap and you aren't in a maniacal cheering state you're a hater. Yes, let's love everything, let's question nothing and let's be happy with scraps of success we get. 

Yeah.. not for me, thanks!

So, what if we qualify via the next European Championships through the back-door, or if we do it the traditional way. What if we qualify for the next World Cup. What exactly is it going to change?

The SFA are praying that we qualify for someone soon. Why? Because they care about the success of the football team? No. They're hoping that there'll something, anything, to divert away from their absolute incompetence and their downright reluctance to make any kind of a change.

Take a look at the transformation of Icelandic football in recent years. You think it was done by accident? The government overcame the challenges of dreadful weather by building dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums that all youths to train all year round. The Iceland FC, clubs and schools have also worked together to build similar indoor facilities that are open to all and staffed by qualified coaches.

Clubs and the local authorities worked together to build indoor football pitches all over the country, while the Iceland FC have been buying land next to schools to build pitches.

According to the Iceland FA there were 179 full-size pitches in Iceland by the end of 2015. That means one full-size pitch for every 128 registered players in the country. To this can be added 166 mini and half sized pitches that employ artificial turf.

Compare that to what we have.

What do we do? We come up with a stupid name of an initiative that will magically transform our fortunes. Yes, "Project Brave" will apparently bridge the gap. Who needs 100s full-size pitches. Who needs a government to build dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums. Who needs for clubs and local authorities to build indoor football pitches. Nah. We don't need that. All we need is Malky Mackay with his tracksuit and a jotter.

You can either get wrapped up into a vacuum of mass hysteria and be diverted by short-term success, or you can ask why our football association, SPFL, the Scottish government, our clubs, etc, don't work together to solve this football crisis that we've been in since the 90's.

Does me dropping this knowledge make a hater? It makes me someone who wants and deserves more.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Chripper

[Caledonian Craig]

14 minutes ago, Chripper said:

Mmm... what is it with society nowadays? It seems like if you haven't got a perma-smile on your face, your hands on auto-clap and you aren't in a maniacal cheering state you're a hater. Yes, let's love everything, let's question nothing and let's be happy with scraps of success we get. 

Yeah.. not for me, thanks!

So, what if we qualify via the next European Championships through the back-door, or if we do it the traditional way. What if we qualify for the next World Cup. What exactly is it going to change?

The SFA are praying that we qualify for someone soon. Why? Because they care about the success of the football team? No. They're hoping that there'll something, anything, to divert away from their absolute incompetence and their downright reluctance to make any kind of a change.

Take a look at the transformation of Icelandic football in recent years. You think it was done by accident? The government overcame the challenges of dreadful weather by building dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums that all youths to train all year round. The Iceland FC, clubs and schools have also worked together to build similar indoor facilities that are open to all and staffed by qualified coaches.

Clubs and the local authorities worked together to build indoor football pitches all over the country, while the Iceland FC have been buying land next to schools to build pitches.

According to the Iceland FA there were 179 full-size pitches in Iceland by the end of 2015. That means one full-size pitch for every 128 registered players in the country. To this can be added 166 mini and half sized pitches that employ artificial turf.

Compare that to what we have.

What do we do? We come up with a stupid name of an initiative that will magically transform our fortunes. Yes, "Project Brave" will apparently bridge the gap. Who needs 100s full-size pitches. Who needs a government to build dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums. Who needs for clubs and local authorities to build indoor football pitches. Nah. We don't need that. All we need is Malky Mackay with his tracksuit and a jotter.

You can either get wrapped up into a vacuum of mass hysteria and be diverted by short-term success, or you can ask why our football association, SPFL, the Scottish government, our clubs, etc, don't work together to solve this football crisis that we've been in since the 90's.

Does me dropping this knowledge make a hater? It makes me someone who wants and deserves more.

You are getting two things completely and utterly mixed up. 

Fans are happy with reaching a Play-off - something that we haven't achieved for over a decade. Fans are happy seeing a Scot score a hat-trick for his country - a rare achievement. Fans are happy that we have lost just one competitive match in eleven. Fans are happy we have a modicum of momentum to go forward with from here. 

We know the massive shortcomings of the SFA thank you very much and their short-sightedness and incompetence. However, I won't wish for us to lose matches and pass up Play-off chances just for a weapon to hit the SFA with. The SFA will continue on their incompetent way as they always have and for the team and the fans getting behind them it is a case of doing the best they can to ensure Scotland can achieve as much as possible. Forgive me for being content that we are in a Play-off but I have been miserable long enough through narrow misses. 

[Chripper]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You are getting two things completely and utterly mixed up. 

Fans are happy with reaching a Play-off - something that we haven't achieved for over a decade. Fans are happy seeing a Scot score a hat-trick for his country - a rare achievement. Fans are happy that we have lost just one competitive match in eleven. Fans are happy we have a modicum of momentum to go forward with from here. 

We know the massive shortcomings of the SFA thank you very much and their short-sightedness and incompetence. However, I won't wish for us to lose matches and pass up Play-off chances just for a weapon to hit the SFA with. The SFA will continue on their incompetent way as they always have and for the team and the fans getting behind them it is a case of doing the best they can to ensure Scotland can achieve as much as possible. Forgive me for being content that we are in a Play-off but I have been miserable long enough through narrow misses. 

I don't expect many people to agree with me.

"Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius by the mediocrities" ~ Oscar Wilde

 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Chripper said:

I don't expect many people to agree with me.

"Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius by the mediocrities" ~ Oscar Wilde

 

You need to re-read and re-word your original post. 

People are happy with us getting a play-off...something we haven't achieved for a decade. I do not see anybody on here getting excited by the SFA's performance or people saying that they are doing brilliantly. 

On pitch results matter most to Scotland and their fans and at present there is a reason to be content. Feel free to start up a whole new thread on the SFA incompetence as it is a subject on its own but trying to tie in us achieving a Play-off as a reason to be unhappy because of the SFA does nothing for your argument. 

[Lairdyfaeinverclyde]

1 hour ago, Chripper said:

Mmm... what is it with society nowadays? It seems like if you haven't got a perma-smile on your face, your hands on auto-clap and you aren't in a maniacal cheering state you're a hater. Yes, let's love everything, let's question nothing and let's be happy with scraps of success we get. 

Yeah.. not for me, thanks!

So, what if we qualify via the next European Championships through the back-door, or if we do it the traditional way. What if we qualify for the next World Cup. What exactly is it going to change?

The SFA are praying that we qualify for someone soon. Why? Because they care about the success of the football team? No. They're hoping that there'll something, anything, to divert away from their absolute incompetence and their downright reluctance to make any kind of a change.

Take a look at the transformation of Icelandic football in recent years. You think it was done by accident? The government overcame the challenges of dreadful weather by building dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums that all youths to train all year round. The Iceland FC, clubs and schools have also worked together to build similar indoor facilities that are open to all and staffed by qualified coaches.

Clubs and the local authorities worked together to build indoor football pitches all over the country, while the Iceland FC have been buying land next to schools to build pitches.

According to the Iceland FA there were 179 full-size pitches in Iceland by the end of 2015. That means one full-size pitch for every 128 registered players in the country. To this can be added 166 mini and half sized pitches that employ artificial turf.

Compare that to what we have.

What do we do? We come up with a stupid name of an initiative that will magically transform our fortunes. Yes, "Project Brave" will apparently bridge the gap. Who needs 100s full-size pitches. Who needs a government to build dozens of geo-thermally heated indoor stadiums. Who needs for clubs and local authorities to build indoor football pitches. Nah. We don't need that. All we need is Malky Mackay with his tracksuit and a jotter.

You can either get wrapped up into a vacuum of mass hysteria and be diverted by short-term success, or you can ask why our football association, SPFL, the Scottish government, our clubs, etc, don't work together to solve this football crisis that we've been in since the 90's.

Does me dropping this knowledge make a hater? It makes me someone who wants and deserves more.

Do you honestly believe or expect the Scottish Government to plough millions or billions of pounds into football with all the other social issues Scotland is facing e.g. food banks, homelessness, lack of nurses etc? Scottish football is not a government priority.  I'm not sure if Iceland have the same social issues we have.

Apologies for dragging politics in to this thread.

[er yir macaroon]

“Compare that to what we have.” “Compare that with what we have.”  Mediocre. Sort it oot, Oscar.

[vanderark14]

I am sure someone with a better memory than me will be able to confirm but I am sure I heard Daryl Broadfoot or Michael Stewart say that was the first double header we have won in 11 years?

Is that correct?