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I think both 19th and 17th mean that (the downside, if you like, is that it means less opportunity to get points on the board by beating a rubbish team from somewhere like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein. Oh, er...).

Don’t think Serbia will pick up any more points, as RSB have to go to Napoli then play Liverpool and PSG twice, but u never know.

BATE Borisov probably will pick up points as they have videoton and PAOK at home and are playing well domestically.

if we catch anyone, I reckon it will be Serbia, but we’d have to get some really good results - not sure we will having seen Celtic last night v the supposedly worst team in the group. Add .5 to our overall total when a Scottish club wins, .25 when they draw and I can’t quite see it. However, here’s hoping.

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1 hour ago, Duncan Blackheart said:

I think both 19th and 17th mean that (the downside, if you like, is that it means less opportunity to get points on the board by beating a rubbish team from somewhere like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein. Oh, er...).

Don’t think Serbia will pick up any more points, as RSB have to go to Napoli then play Liverpool and PSG twice, but u never know.

BATE Borisov probably will pick up points as they have videoton and PAOK at home and are playing well domestically.

if we catch anyone, I reckon it will be Serbia, but we’d have to get some really good results - not sure we will having seen Celtic last night v the supposedly worst team in the group. Add .5 to our overall total when a Scottish club wins, .25 when they draw and I can’t quite see it. However, here’s hoping.

I accept your argument about less games against the worst teams but the main points come from reaching the group stages and the easier that is for our sides, the better. 

There is something not clicking with Celtic at the moment but I'm sure it will. I think we will get through the group but we will need to win our 2 home matches and get something in Norway. 

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2 hours ago, Duncan Blackheart said:

I think both 19th and 17th mean that (the downside, if you like, is that it means less opportunity to get points on the board by beating a rubbish team from somewhere like Luxembourg or Liechtenstein. Oh, er...).

Considering the small stature of the opponents, I actually think it works as a benefit to some extent to get some actual match sharpness. I'm perhaps only talking about Celtic here, but I'd rather have a warm up qualifier against the Armenian champions than get caught cold going in to play Rosenborg in the first qualifier.

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3 hours ago, Tartan_McCole said:

Considering the small stature of the opponents, I actually think it works as a benefit to some extent to get some actual match sharpness. I'm perhaps only talking about Celtic here, but I'd rather have a warm up qualifier against the Armenian champions than get caught cold going in to play Rosenborg in the first qualifier.

I tend to agree, especially this season for Rangers. Our qualifiers got steadily harder and that has definitely helped build the squad confidence up and sort out the best team. 

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10 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

Rangers unbeaten in 9 Euro games this season.  That must be some sort of record?

A quick look at the Wee Red Book shows that both Rangers in 98-99 and Aberdeen in 82-83 had 9 game runs before losing for the first time.

 

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Up to 20th. 

Serbia are the team ahead of us now. Two wins and a draw (from the 8+ games) more than Red Star get from their tough 4 games should see us move ahead of them. 

Edited by PASTA Mick

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Need to keep an eye on Israel and Norway, as they go above us next season, barring something extraordinary. Want them to lose matches, so Celtic beating Rosenborg in Norway (stop laughing) would be good.

What would it take for England not to have 4 teams in the champions league under the new format? I take it that it’s basically impossible unless they have a sustained meltdown over a few years?

Edited by Duncan Blackheart

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2 hours ago, Duncan Blackheart said:

Need to keep an eye on Israel and Norway, as they go above us next season, barring something extraordinary. Want them to lose matches, so Celtic beating Rosenborg in Norway (stop laughing) would be good.

What would it take for England not to have 4 teams in the champions league under the new format? I take it that it’s basically impossible unless they have a sustained meltdown over a few years?

I might be misunderstanding it, but with the new set up, because they get points just for being in the champions league, you’d probably need all 4 teams to get pumped 6 times for 3 straight seasons to lose a place.

:lol:

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Full update after the first three group matches:

  1. Spain - 91.284
  2. England - 69.034
  3. Italy - 68.583
  4. Germany - 64.070
  5. France - 52.998
  6. Russia - 47.549
  7. Portugal - 42.032
  8. Belgium - 36.700
  9. Ukraine - 36.700
  10. Turkey - 32.600
  11. Netherlands - 28.633
  12. Austria - 28.250
  13. Denmark - 26.775
  14. Greece - 26.600
  15. Switzerland - 26.300
  16. Croatia - 25.375
  17. Czech Rep - 24.975
  18. Cyprus - 23.425
  19. Serbia - 21.750
  20. Scotland - 20.875
  21. Belarus - 20.375
  22. Sweden - 19.900
  23. Norway - 19.700
  24. Poland - 19.250
  25. Israel - 19.000
  26. Kazakhstan - 18.750
  27. Azerbaijan - 18.500
  28. Bulgaria - 16.750
  29. Romania - 15.950
  30. Slovenia - 15.000
  31. Slovakia - 14.875
  32. Liechtenstein - 13.500
  33. Hungary - 9.750
  34. Macedonia - 8.000
  35. Moldova - 7.750
  36. Albania - 7.500
  37. Ireland - 7.450
  38. Finland - 7.275
  39. Iceland - 7.250
  40. Bosnia - 7.125
  41. Lithuania - 6.750
  42. Latvia - 5.625
  43. Luxembourg - 5.250
  44. Armenia - 5.250
  45. Malta - 5.125
  46. Estonia - 5.000
  47. Georgia - 4.750
  48. Wales - 4.125
  49. Montenegro - 4.125
  50. Faroe Is - 4.000
  51. Gibraltar - 4.000
  52. N Ireland - 3.875
  53. Kosovo - 2.500
  54. Andorra - 1.831
  55. San Marino - 0.666
Edited by Clyde1998

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On 10/5/2018 at 7:44 AM, Duncan Blackheart said:

What would it take for England not to have 4 teams in the champions league under the new format? I take it that it’s basically impossible unless they have a sustained meltdown over a few years?

England would have to lose (roughly) an average of four points a season to the French (5th) - the equivalent of twelve more French wins a season or fourteen less English wins - over the five year period. Note that five bonus points are awarded per club for reaching the CL knockout phase, and an additional point per round after reaching the quarter-finals for both competitions, which would likely reduce the actual number of wins difference between the countries.

In practise, it's basically impossible without England having a sustained meltdown and another country outside the top four, most likely France, having sustained form.

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Terrific work, Clyde.

Liechtenstein's ranking is pretty impressive btw.

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On 10/31/2018 at 7:29 PM, buckielugger said:

Terrific work, Clyde.

Liechtenstein's ranking is pretty impressive btw.

Thank you.

Liechtenstein are a bit of an odd case, as they don't have a national league - only a cup (like Wales circa 1992). As a result of this, only their cup winners get a place in Europe and their coefficient is only based on what that team does, rather than being based on an average performance of three or four teams like other small nations.

All their (seven) teams play in the Swiss league, with FC Vaduz playing in the Swiss top flight in recent years (I think three of the last four seasons), are therefore professional and playing against a higher standard of opponent on a weekly basis than clubs in other small nations would. Additionally, they would have financial backing that they wouldn't receive in a Liechtenstein league. Other sides in Liechtenstein are in the fourth tier or below and are semi-pro.

Vaduz are really far ahead of the other teams in Liechtenstein - winning 46 of 73 Liechtenstein cups and all but two since 1995.

Although that being said, for Liechtenstein to be in the high 30s is still very impressive.

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12 hours ago, Clyde1998 said:

Thank you.

Liechtenstein are a bit of an odd case, as they don't have a national league - only a cup (like Wales circa 1992). As a result of this, only their cup winners get a place in Europe and their coefficient is only based on what that team does, rather than being based on an average performance of three or four teams like other small nations.

All their (seven) teams play in the Swiss league, with FC Vaduz playing in the Swiss top flight in recent years (I think three of the last four seasons), are therefore professional and playing against a higher standard of opponent on a weekly basis than clubs in other small nations would. Additionally, they would have financial backing that they wouldn't receive in a Liechtenstein league. Other sides in Liechtenstein are in the fourth tier or below and are semi-pro.

Vaduz are really far ahead of the other teams in Liechtenstein - winning 46 of 73 Liechtenstein cups and all but two since 1995.

Although that being said, for Liechtenstein to be in the high 30s is still very impressive.

Genuinely never knew that about teams from Liechtenstein. Interesting stuff!

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I have paid a special interest in Liechtenstein ever since our trip there 7 years ago. Apart from the game, had a lovely few days in the Principality with my gf.  Such a friendly place.

And one other little bit of (non-football) info, I believe the Crown Princess there, Sophie, is the current legitimate Jacobite line of descent...(or due to be the next one when her uncle dies)...

Sophie Queen of Scots ?? 😏

(She was at our game there)

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After four group matches - countries in orange will see all their remaining teams eliminated after the group stages: 

  1. Spain - 92.855
  2. England - 70.320
  3. Italy - 69.583
  4. Germany - 65.356
  5. France - 53.498
  6. Russia - 48.383
  7. Portugal - 42.832
  8. Belgium - 37.300
  9. Ukraine - 37.100
  10. Turkey - 33.200
  11. Austria - 28.850
  12. Netherlands - 28.833
  13. Denmark - 27.025
  14. Greece - 27.000
  15. Switzerland - 26.300
  16. Croatia - 25.875
  17. Czech Rep - 25.175
  18. Cyprus - 23.675
  19. Serbia - 22.250
  20. Scotland - 21.375
  21. Belarus - 20.375
  22. Sweden - 20.150
  23. Norway - 19.950
  24. Kazakhstan - 19.250
  25. Poland - 19.250
  26. Israel - 19.000
  27. Azerbaijan - 19.000
  28. Bulgaria - 17.000
  29. Romania - 15.950
  30. Slovenia - 15.000
  31. Slovakia - 14.875
  32. Liechtenstein - 13.500
  33. Hungary - 10.250
  34. Macedonia - 8.000
  35. Moldova - 7.750
  36. Albania - 7.500
  37. Ireland - 7.450
  38. Finland - 7.275
  39. Iceland - 7.250
  40. Bosnia - 7.125
  41. Lithuania - 6.750
  42. Latvia - 5.625
  43. Luxembourg - 5.250
  44. Armenia - 5.250
  45. Malta - 5.125
  46. Estonia - 5.000
  47. Georgia - 4.750
  48. Wales - 4.125
  49. Montenegro - 4.125
  50. Faroe Is - 4.000
  51. Gibraltar - 4.000
  52. N Ireland - 3.875
  53. Kosovo - 2.500
  54. Andorra - 1.831
  55. San Marino - 0.666

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8 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

After four group matches - countries in orange will see all their remaining teams eliminated after the group stages: 

  1. Spain - 92.855
  2. England - 70.320
  3. Italy - 69.583
  4. Germany - 65.356
  5. France - 53.498
  6. Russia - 48.383
  7. Portugal - 42.832
  8. Belgium - 37.300
  9. Ukraine - 37.100
  10. Turkey - 33.200
  11. Austria - 28.850
  12. Netherlands - 28.833
  13. Denmark - 27.025
  14. Greece - 27.000
  15. Switzerland - 26.300
  16. Croatia - 25.875
  17. Czech Rep - 25.175
  18. Cyprus - 23.675
  19. Serbia - 22.250
  20. Scotland - 21.375
  21. Belarus - 20.375
  22. Sweden - 20.150
  23. Norway - 19.950
  24. Kazakhstan - 19.250
  25. Poland - 19.250
  26. Israel - 19.000
  27. Azerbaijan - 19.000
  28. Bulgaria - 17.000
  29. Romania - 15.950
  30. Slovenia - 15.000
  31. Slovakia - 14.875
  32. Liechtenstein - 13.500
  33. Hungary - 10.250
  34. Macedonia - 8.000
  35. Moldova - 7.750
  36. Albania - 7.500
  37. Ireland - 7.450
  38. Finland - 7.275
  39. Iceland - 7.250
  40. Bosnia - 7.125
  41. Lithuania - 6.750
  42. Latvia - 5.625
  43. Luxembourg - 5.250
  44. Armenia - 5.250
  45. Malta - 5.125
  46. Estonia - 5.000
  47. Georgia - 4.750
  48. Wales - 4.125
  49. Montenegro - 4.125
  50. Faroe Is - 4.000
  51. Gibraltar - 4.000
  52. N Ireland - 3.875
  53. Kosovo - 2.500
  54. Andorra - 1.831
  55. San Marino - 0.666

Serbia are pretty much done as well. I'm not sure we will catch either of Serbia or Cyprus but if both Celtic and Rangers somehow do make the next round we will be pretty close. 

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19 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Serbia are pretty much done as well. I'm not sure we will catch either of Serbia or Cyprus but if both Celtic and Rangers somehow do make the next round we will be pretty close. 

I think the next group games will pretty much be the deciders. 2 wins and they will both be favourites to get through. 

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