EU Referendum

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Parklife said:

I'll take that award and you can take the moany bugger award?  

Ach, I wouldn't even attempt going for that one. The competition is far too strong. I'm more "Pedant of the Year" material.

[Orraloon]

9 minutes ago, Mee said:

Whole court case is a total waste of money and time. Yes it should go through parliament as all legislation should.

 

Will it make a difference? No of course not, all the parties have said they will vote yes so what's the point in challenging it.

Should the devolved parliament's be consulted? No, it's not a devolved matter, what's the point. How about they spend their time doing something constructive instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds debating something they have no power to affect. That's why there are MPs in Westminster

All of them? You sure about that?

 

[Orraloon]

Heard something on the radio on the way home. I wasn't listening that closely so I might have got it wrong, but it sounded like they were suggesting that it might be April before this is presented to parliament. That would knock back Maggie May's timetable a wee bit. Did anybody else hear anything like this?

[Rossy]

On 4/28/2016 at 5:34 PM, Glasgowmancity said:

A year in and I still can't quote properly. 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Rossy

[Rossy]

56 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Heard something on the radio on the way home. I wasn't listening that closely so I might have got it wrong, but it sounded like they were suggesting that it might be April before this is presented to parliament. That would knock back Maggie May's timetable a wee bit. Did anybody else hear anything like this?

The Grauniad says that Cruella could present a bill to parliament on Thursday.

[neilser]

Top stuff from Kevin McKenna in The National today

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/15045023.Kevin_McKenna__We___re_colonised_by_w_____rs_____time_for_Scotland_to_show_self_respect/?ref=mr&lp=1

 

Quote

This is the story so far. David Cameron, a bumbling Old Etonian multi-millionaire whose family fortunes have been reinforced by a Panama-based tax-avoidance vehicle is facing opposition from truculent right-wingers over Europe.

Rather than stand up to them he meekly agrees to an in-out referendum on Europe after the 2015 General Election, secure in the knowledge it will never happen.

Unfortunately, he wins an overall majority thus depriving him of horse-trading the EC referendum out of existence. The campaign duly unfolds and several unprincipled and careerist hard-right Tories view the debacle as an opportunity to either advance their careers or, in the case of Liam Fox, recover his.

And so mild, reasonable and cautious England collapses in on itself in a vortex of racism, lies and naked political ambition. The de facto leader of the country is Nigel Farage, and Ukip, with just one parliamentary seat to its name, is calling the tune throughout the land. England and Wales vote to leave Europe while Scotland and Northern Ireland vote to stay. In Scotland the vote is 2-1 in favour of Remain.

Within hours it becomes clear that the party of government did not have the merest idea of what to do next. It subsequently emerges that the leaders of the Leave side did not believe much of what they were telling people. Furthermore, they were simply using the campaign to gain leverage in the Conservative Party and to unseat Cameron.

Next, they thought they could stay in the single market but restrict free movement of people. Now they think they can withdraw from the world’s most successful trading bloc and have Britain make its own deals throughout the world. And, in by no means the final humiliation, the highest judges in the land effectively command them to consult Parliament. This is 21st-century England, a once-proud country now being run by a cabal of rank, grasping, incompetent Nationwide League third-raters and dancing to the tune of a pantomime clown in a covert coat. Where does that leave Scotland, which permits these characters to run the country even when it has become clear they are utterly incompetent?

 

Scotland, in the prophetic words of Mark Renton, “can’t even find a decent culture to be colonised by”.

 

[Alibi]

15 hours ago, Mee said:

Whole court case is a total waste of money and time. Yes it should go through parliament as all legislation should.

 

Will it make a difference? No of course not, all the parties have said they will vote yes so what's the point in challenging it.

Should the devolved parliament's be consulted? No, it's not a devolved matter, what's the point. How about they spend their time doing something constructive instead of wasting hundreds of thousands of pounds debating something they have no power to affect. That's why there are MPs in Westminster

The reason why devolved parliaments should be consulted is that Brexit affects them, and means changes to the various acts.  It is now clear that the word "normally" was inserted in that Scotland (2106) bill specifically to allow Westminster to ignore the Sewell convention, despite David Mundell specifically denying that.

We were told we have close to federalism.  Aye right.  We were told we had the most powerful devolved parliament in the world - that's untrue and what we have is a parliament that Westminster can over-rule any time it wants, on any matter including the very existence of the parliament.  That has been confirmed by this court decision and the lies of Better Together and the unionists have been laid bare.

Anyone who votes no in indyref2, which I think will happen in September 2018, needs to ask themself why they are content to live in a clear "abusive spouse" relationship. If you do vote no, don't ever again describe yourself as Scottish, because you're not - you will be solely British, and you will deserve everything you get if Scotland continues to be trapped in this dystopian nightmare.

[Parklife]

12 minutes ago, Alibi said:

Anyone who votes no in indyref2, which I think will happen in September 2018, needs to ask themself why they are content to live in a clear "abusive spouse" relationship. If you do vote no, don't ever again describe yourself as Scottish, because you're not - you will be solely British, and you will deserve everything you get if Scotland continues to be trapped in this dystopian nightmare.

All that kind of rhetoric will do is turn folk to No. 

[Alibi]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

All that kind of rhetoric will do is turn folk to No. 

It's not a campaigning spiel, just my view on where we are.

[Larky Masher]

1 hour ago, Parklife said:

All that kind of rhetoric will do is turn folk to No. 

Quisling

[Alan]

"Dystopian mightmare"!

Utterly superb. 

[neilly71]

The union has to be the biggest con in history, it came about because our leaders were bribed by Daniel Defoe and other spies. If that hadnt worked the English had amassed troops at the border, called the "Rough wooing" is that any basis for a Union of equal parts? Scotland was to assume the name "North Britain", England remained England.For over 300 years our revenues have flowed south to be redistributed by London, does that make sense? We have absolutely no clout at Westminster, are ignored and occasionally mocked. Are we servile or too docile to want to run our own country, do we really believe that people in another country are somehow better placed to run our country for us? The Act of Union has been broken many, many times, does anyone care?

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by neilly71

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, neilly71 said:

The union has to be the biggest con in history, it came about because our leaders were bribed by Daniel Defoe and other spies. If that hadnt worked the English had amassed troops at the border, called the "Rough wooing" is that any basis for a Union of equal parts? Scotland was to assume the name "North Britain", England remained England.For over 300 years our revenues have flowed south to be redistributed by London, does that make sense? We have absolutely no clout at Westminster, are ignored and occasionally mocked. Are we servile or too docile to want to run our own country, do we really believe that people in another country are somehow better placed to run our country for us? The Act of Union has been broken many, many times, does anyone care?

 

The Rough Wooing was in the 16th century and was a war between England and Scotland aimed at forcing a marriage between Mary, Queen of Scots and Henry VIII's son. 

[neilly71]

5 minutes ago, aaid said:

The Rough Wooing was in the 16th century and was a war between England and Scotland aimed at forcing a marriage between Mary, Queen of Scots and Henry VIII's son. 

@pologies aaid, you are correct sir. It It was still a bit rude though.

Edited January 25, 2017 by neilly71

[Alibi]

2 hours ago, neilly71 said:

The union has to be the biggest con in history, it came about because our leaders were bribed by Daniel Defoe and other spies. If that hadnt worked the English had amassed troops at the border, called the "Rough wooing" is that any basis for a Union of equal parts? Scotland was to assume the name "North Britain", England remained England.For over 300 years our revenues have flowed south to be redistributed by London, does that make sense? We have absolutely no clout at Westminster, are ignored and occasionally mocked. Are we servile or too docile to want to run our own country, do we really believe that people in another country are somehow better placed to run our country for us? The Act of Union has been broken many, many times, does anyone care?

 

I think what has happened is a form of Stockholm Syndrome.  No matter what Westminster does, a lot of proudscotbuts will always find a way to justify it. "It's OK, he didn't hit me that hard"; "I deserved it"; "I don't want to rock the boat"; "I can't manage on my own".  They are in denial really.  Surely this latest piece of slapping down Scotland will convince at least a small percentage to wake up and see what is going on?

[Larky Masher]

5 hours ago, Alibi said:

I think what has happened is a form of Stockholm Syndrome.  No matter what Westminster does, a lot of proudscotbuts will always find a way to justify it. "It's OK, he didn't hit me that hard"; "I deserved it"; "I don't want to rock the boat"; "I can't manage on my own".  They are in denial really.  Surely this latest piece of slapping down Scotland will convince at least a small percentage to wake up and see what is going on?

Proundscotbuts, quality nonsense.

[Redz]

2 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

Proundscotbuts, quality nonsense.

Agreed. (I don't believe it) 

That won't help convert in the slightest.......

[Regenmann]

8 hours ago, Alan said:

"Dystopian mightmare"!

Utterly superb. 

 

9 minutes ago, Larky Masher said:

Proundscotbuts, quality nonsense.

 

It's brilliant - threads like this are usually good for a laugh - Alibi and Anecdote are a right pair of comedians. 

[Parklife]

49 minutes ago, Regenmann said:

 

 

It's brilliant - threads like this are usually good for a laugh - Alibi and Anecdote are a right pair of comedians. 

I'm all for independence but you're right about those guys, unintentional comedy geniuses.

"Dystopian nightmare"  That's the best yet. 

[TDYER63]

I agree that dystopian nightmare is a ridiculous exaggeration, though i dont find it particularly funny.  I find it quite sad as it is those kind of comments that will prevent scotland ever becoming independant, as it will never win over those currently undecided.

I do not however find it as sad as those who use the terms 'basket case' and 'poorer than Greece' and other such derogatory comments to describe their own country, often revelling in it. To lack the confidence in yourself and those around you to be self sufficient and run a  fair and honest country is saddest of all. 

[Rossy]

5 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I agree that dystopian nightmare is a ridiculous exaggeration, though i dont find it particularly funny.  I find it quite sad as it is those kind of comments that will prevent scotland ever becoming independant, as it will never win over those currently undecided.

I do not however find it as sad as those who use the terms 'basket case' and 'poorer than Greece' and other such derogatory comments to describe their own country, often revelling in it. To lack the confidence in yourself and those around you to be self sufficient and run a  fair and honest country is saddest of all. 

I doubt very much if anyone in Scotland is 'currently undecided'. I believe opinion is completely hardened, and polarised.

[ParisInAKilt]

It will come down to the economy more than likely, 45% voted yes despite the lack of clairiy on currency, but the media will just be as biased as before. I think it would be a mistake to call a referendum before the full impact of leaving the EU is apparent. 

[Auld_Reekie]

32 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It will come down to the economy more than likely, 45% voted yes despite the lack of clairiy on currency, but the media will just be as biased as before. I think it would be a mistake to call a referendum before the full impact of leaving the EU is apparent. 

Yep. Which is why #indyref2 will be put off as long as possible. Currency is still no clearer and you can see the No campaign lines already becoming very obvious - yesterday's emphasis by opposition and the media on the amount of exports to rUK and Europe makes it clear the campaign is already underway. 

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Rossy said:

I doubt very much if anyone in Scotland is 'currently undecided'. I believe opinion is completely hardened, and polarised.

I'm not sure that's the case.  I think "convinced" unionists and nationalists are probably more hardened and polarised but between those two poles, there still a lot of soft No's - and soft Yes's - who could change their minds.   You generally don't see very many people rushing to Twitter to proclaim how undecided they are.

36 minutes ago, Auld_Reekie said:

Yep. Which is why #indyref2 will be put off as long as possible. Currency is still no clearer and you can see the No campaign lines already becoming very obvious - yesterday's emphasis by opposition and the media on the amount of exports to rUK and Europe makes it clear the campaign is already underway. 

Arguably the campaign for IndyRef2 started on 19 September 2014.  Interesting that Blair McDougall is floating the idea of fighting IndyRef2 on immigration.  I hope they do - while it'll be a very nasty campaign - it'll be the end of them as it will lose them a lot more support than they gain.

[stocky]

Scotland exports 46 billion to England (12 Billion to EU)

England exports 52 Billion to Scotland .  Scotland is Englands Single BIGGEST export market... 

Ireland Biggest Export Market is the UK,  is isnt ruled by the UK ,  

we need to stop making Trade a Stick the Scotbuts () can hit the YES campaign with , its not a reason for dependency. .

 

Canada Exports 70% of all its trade to the USA, that doesnt mean they are controlled by them