COLT NY Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think today this young team announced to the world what many of us in Scotland were already anticipating. This young team has great potential, and hopefully we have some good years ahead of us. What we have to do though is to learn to win even the games that we're not supposed to win comfortably. If we rely on it going down to the wire against the big teams, we'll continue to let the almost blatant refereeing bias towards these teams (and our own psychological weaknesses) dictate our success. 3 things I'm sick of... - Always blowing opportunities at the death - Always feeling unjustly treated by officials against bigger teams - Posters going on about politics, or going on about how uninterested they are by rugby, in the rugby forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Not really accurate. This kind of attitude is actually part of the problem psychologically. We're wee and sh*te. Never said anything about psychology. Just said it would have been a monumental upset. The bookies odds had us as the longest 1/4 final. As it was it was the closest. And yes, traditionally we are wee and shite at rugby. Our 6 Nations for the main back that up. Hopefully this WC will give us confidence that we can mix it with the big boys. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolhibby Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think today this young team announced to the world what many of us in Scotland were already anticipating. This young team has great potential, and hopefully we have some good years ahead of us. What we have to do though is to learn to win even the games that we're not supposed to win comfortably. If we rely on it going down to the wire against the big teams, we'll continue to let the almost blatant refereeing bias towards these teams (and our own psychological weaknesses) dictate our success. 3 things I'm sick of... - Always blowing opportunities at the death - Always feeling unjustly treated by officials against bigger teams - Posters going on about politics, or going on about how uninterested they are by rugby, in the rugby forum Good post, particularly the last point. If you are not interested in rugby and let your political/classist viewpoint turn you against SCOTLANDS NATIONAL TEAM. Then just don't post. It's the equilivent of a message board hand grenade. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Worth a listen. Cheating barsteward. Well said Gav! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Worth a listen. Cheating barsteward. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=2qwSBNACeWc At work without sound on my PC, what's being said here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 At work without sound on my PC, what's being said here? It's the BBC radio commentary of the last minute of the game. Robertson and Hastings are both going mental at the referee sprinting off the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's the BBC radio commentary of the last minute of the game. Robertson and Hastings are both going mental at the referee sprinting off the park. Aye the ref doesn't seem to have covered himself in glory there. Even the likes of Matt Dawson was getting tore in to him last night. Incidentally, I met Gavin Hastings at a dinner last year and he was one of the biggest bawbags I've ever met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Good post, particularly the last point. If you are not interested in rugby and let your political/classist viewpoint turn you against SCOTLANDS NATIONAL TEAM. Then just don't post. It's the equilivent of a message board hand grenade. J Agreed. There's a perception of Scottish rugby fans all being No voting upper middle class farmers from Melrose and Kelso. There are elements of the Murrayfield crowd that are like that, but in reality the vast majority of Scotland's support are just normal lads and lassies from every spectrum of Scottish society from cooncil estates in Dundee to million quid homes in Morningside. Certainly the away support is as 'normal' as 'normal can be. It's like the football support, but without all the drunken 'look at me' type kn0bs peeing in the middle of town squares. A few high profile ex-players brought politics into Scottish rugby (when there was no need), but lets not forget that the SRU refused to allow Murrayfield to be a gathering place for their No supporting picture shoots. I'm not sure of the politics of the group I meet up with from time to time...some will be no voters, some are yes voters. All of us are Scotland fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfieMoon Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 So - as a non-rugby person I still can't understand what actually for the penalty to come about at the end. Am I right in thinking that the ref has thought that Scottish player A has knocked the ball forward to the Scottish player B (offside) who has then collected the ball and been given 'intentional offside' and a resultant penalty? And if it had just been a knock-on without the Scottish player B in that position then it would have been a scrum (or advantage) to Oz? And what is actually being argued is that it came back off an Oz player's hand so should/could in fact have been an 'unintentional offside' which would only have been a scrum rather than penalty? Is that about right? Or have I got that all wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 So - as a non-rugby person I still can't understand what actually for the penalty to come about at the end. Am I right in thinking that the ref has thought that Scottish player A has knocked the ball forward to the Scottish player B (offside) who has then collected the ball and been given 'intentional offside' and a resultant penalty? And if it had just been a knock-on without the Scottish player B in that position then it would have been a scrum (or advantage) to Oz? And what is actually being argued is that it came back off an Oz player's hand so should/could in fact have been an 'unintentional offside' which would only have been a scrum rather than penalty? Is that about right? Or have I got that all wrong? Completely correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Reminds me a lot of the aftermath of the Italy game in 2007 it was said lost a last minute goal to a bad ref decision, but we lost the goal due to not paying attention and not being professional, we lost yesterday because we couldn't win our own line out with a minute to go. we lost because we were not good enough not due to an incompetent ref. stop putting the blame on the ref. he was shite, but we lost the game, it was Scotland who lost. As others have said, we need to stop shifting the blame. I was/am gutted, we should be playing argentina next week for a place in the final, we were excellent yesterday, but really good teams dont lose the ball with a minute to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Not sure where you copy and pasted that from - but it's incorrect. Ha was just about to say it's a copy and paste job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Reminds me a lot of the aftermath of the Italy game in 2007 it was said lost a last minute goal to a bad ref decision, but we lost the goal due to not paying attention and not being professional, we lost yesterday because we couldn't win our own line out with a minute to go. we lost because we were not good enough not due to an incompetent ref. stop putting the blame on the ref. he was shite, but we lost the game, it was Scotland who lost. As others have said, we need to stop shifting the blame. I was/am gutted, we should be playing argentina next week for a place in the final, we were excellent yesterday, but really good teams dont lose the ball with a minute to go. Totally different scenario. After the ref gave the bad decision in 2007 we could still have defended the free kick better. Once the ref made the bad decision here Scotland had no influence on it. It's also being overlooked that it shouldn't have been a line out anyway due to the late hit on Hogg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan cake Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Agreed. There's a perception of Scottish rugby fans all being No voting upper middle class farmers from Melrose and Kelso. There are elements of the Murrayfield crowd that are like that, but in reality the vast majority of Scotland's support are just normal lads and lassies from every spectrum of Scottish society from cooncil estates in Dundee to million quid homes in Morningside. Certainly the away support is as 'normal' as 'normal can be. It's like the football support, but without all the drunken 'look at me' type kn0bs peeing in the middle of town squares. A few high profile ex-players brought politics into Scottish rugby (when there was no need), but lets not forget that the SRU refused to allow Murrayfield to be a gathering place for their No supporting picture shoots. I'm not sure of the politics of the group I meet up with from time to time...some will be no voters, some are yes voters. All of us are Scotland fans. you forgot to mention the hilarious turning cars upside down which i seen on numerous occasions when i lived near murrayfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I seem to recall a few refs over the years that seemed to give a lot of dodgy decisions against Scotland. (back when I used to watch the 6 nations and internationals etc) One was an Aussie ref with black hair (probably long retired now) and another was a wee welsh with gingery hair and a tache. This probably does not help much with identifying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Devastating to watch in Oz last night - was up at 2am to watch, game finished at 4pm but couldn't sleep for ages after - ended up sleeping in until 10am and being late for work! The most disappointing aspect of it for me is that we had such a great opportunity to reach a World Cup final within our grasps. Argentina are obviously a great side, but we had a chance against them. Imagine that - Scotland in a World Cup final! It's hard to see us having such a good draw in a World Cup for the next 20 years. That's probably borne out by the fact we haven't been to a World Cup semi final since 1991. You have to say the players did incredibly well, but we just always seem to let ourselves down at that final hurdle. As so many have said, with 2 minutes left on the clock and your own line out, you have to be able to close that out. You have to have a go-to line out that will work 99% of the time. It should have gone short, particularly given it was wet. We did so well to get ourselves in that position, so not to close it out was brutal. As for the ref, my take on the line out incident was, along with Kenny Logan that it was a knock on by the Aussie guy into the Scottish guy, so should have been a scrum to us? Even if it was offside, it can't have been deliberate. Very harsh/wrong decision, which makes it tougher to take, but it should never have been in issue. Everyone keeps saying it's positive for us going to the 6 nations, but it seems like that pales into insignificance to the World Cup and what a chance we had to reach a final.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcoolJ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 There can be little doubt that some rugby refs are guilty of refereeing teams and their reputations rather than the game itself. Joubert was also guilty of this 4 years ago when he basically robbed France of the World Cup - wouldn't penalise McCaw for continually coming in from the side and various other infringements. Don't know how they change it but rugby refs all too often determine outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Derek Bevan was the welsh and Steve Walsh was the ozzie . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Devastating to watch in Oz last night - was up at 2am to watch, game finished at 4pm but couldn't sleep for ages after - ended up sleeping in until 10am and being late for work! The most disappointing aspect of it for me is that we had such a great opportunity to reach a World Cup final within our grasps. Argentina are obviously a great side, but we had a chance against them. Imagine that - Scotland in a World Cup final! It's hard to see us having such a good draw in a World Cup for the next 20 years. That's probably borne out by the fact we haven't been to a World Cup semi final since 1991. You have to say the players did incredibly well, but we just always seem to let ourselves down at that final hurdle. As so many have said, with 2 minutes left on the clock and your own line out, you have to be able to close that out. You have to have a go-to line out that will work 99% of the time. It should have gone short, particularly given it was wet. We did so well to get ourselves in that position, so not to close it out was brutal. As for the ref, my take on the line out incident was, along with Kenny Logan that it was a knock on by the Aussie guy into the Scottish guy, so should have been a scrum to us? Even if it was offside, it can't have been deliberate. Very harsh/wrong decision, which makes it tougher to take, but it should never have been in issue. Everyone keeps saying it's positive for us going to the 6 nations, but it seems like that pales into insignificance to the World Cup and what a chance we had to reach a final.... do you remember that world cup semi gavin hastings missed a kick in front of the posts in the last couple of minutes to put us in the world cup final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce778 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I was 5 in 1991, so unfortunately not. Sounds like another classic case of glorious failure.... It doesn't feel any better today than this morning. Still gutted. Edited October 19, 2015 by bruce778 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Derek Bevan was the welsh and Steve Walsh was the ozzie . Derek Bevan was a while ago...well remembered though.... I always thought that Steve Walsh was quite a good referee for Scotland. The English have a thing about him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 you forgot to mention the hilarious turning cars upside down which i seen on numerous occasions when i lived near murrayfield Probably Hearts fans after their team lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bino's Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I was 5 in 1991, so unfortunately not. Sounds like another classic case of glorious failure.... It doesn't feel any better today than this morning. Still gutted. there's nothing glorious about it unfortunately https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H69Eg3xIt8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 W P Nel. What a player he is. He's 29, so not sure if he will be around for the next World Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 W P Nel. What a player he is. He's 29, so not sure if he will be around for the next World Cup? Good point. He's improved the scrum 100%....I'd imagine he'll be around in 4 years time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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