SNP leadership election

[hampden_loon2878]

And all this shit about trans activists leaving, here is a photo of real activists from my tiny village who helped built the party from the early seventies, it seems the concerns of long term activists have been completely ignored, we managed before them and will manage again 

[mcguffin]

12 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

So where as a party do we go from here? What path would you take to steady the ship?

I can't think of a suitable path to be honest. One slightly optimistic thought I had though was looking at the Richard Nixon and Watergate incident. US Republican party hit rock bottom in 1974 when Nixon resigned. 6 years later they're back stronger than ever with Ronald Reagan for a double-term (who pushed through all his big idea policies, including tearing down the Iron Curtain).
No reason, with the right leadership (or political gurus in the background?) SNP can't do the same?

[AlfieMoon]

27 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

It’s going to reveal more, folk are openly speaking about all the alphabetic accusers openly now.I accused sturgeon of being a plant back in 2017 in one of theses threads. At this rate I will be proven right. The scale of the corruption is staggering and will be the biggest political news story ever in Scotland 

Can only really blame Salmond here. He’s the man who put a plant in place. 

[TDYER63]

11 hours ago, daviebee said:

It IS good news and it's not a setback. The independence cause might need to take a step back but it's going to take a hell of a lot more steps forward now that stinking, festering cabal at the heart of the SNP is being reamed out.

I'd like to see all the careerists, expense-collectors and trough-slurpers cleared out as well and have them replaced with folk that'll actually fight for independence.  The sooner the likes of Black, Nicholson, Blackford, Blackman, Law, Wishart and the rest GTF the better.

Does anybody seriously believe - even the most deluded disciple of the Church of St Nikla - that employing that bstrd Murray Foote was a good idea or in any way, shape or form acceptable?  The architect of The Vow FFS!  The man who probably did more than any other person to fck us over in 2014 and Sturgeon employed the bstrd!

Let the blood-letting continue!  I really hope this Smitty character is the real deal.

It is going to be a MASSIVE  setback, not one step. If the things this Smitty character is saying are true how do you envisage moving forward in any way whatsoever when the only party with the capability of taking us is embroiled in all this shit ? Absolutely no one will vote for them. People are looking for something different to what we currently have in the UK, do you think voters will risk the upheaval just to get more of the same when independent ?? Not all supporters of independence are stick on ‘no matter what’ nationalists. Many are tentative ‘yes’.

Kate Forbes or Ash Regan being in charge will not make one iota of a difference, the damage will be well done. Alba are not an alternative. More women hate AS than hate the bloody GRR bill. 
Unionists will be back in charge and you really can wave goodbye to independence for a lot more than a generation. 

If of course all these accusations are true. 

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, mcguffin said:

I can't think of a suitable path to be honest. One slightly optimistic thought I had though was looking at the Richard Nixon and Watergate incident. US Republican party hit rock bottom in 1974 when Nixon resigned. 6 years later they're back stronger than ever with Ronald Reagan for a double-term (who pushed through all his big idea policies, including tearing down the Iron Curtain).
No reason, with the right leadership (or political gurus in the background?) SNP can't do the same?

The Republicans had money behind them and did not have the UK government to contend with. 

[TDYER63]

1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

It’s going to reveal more, folk are openly speaking about all the alphabetic accusers openly now.I accused sturgeon of being a plant back in 2017 in one of theses threads. At this rate I will be proven right. The scale of the corruption is staggering and will be the biggest political news story ever in Scotland 

You also said many times you didn’t think she was a plant and that she was naive. 

Does it really matter what anyone said ? If the whole board had agreed with you and thplinth exactly what difference would it have made to this outcome other than give you a wee pat on the back when proven right? 

[Ally Bongo]

I thought Mike Russell spoke well today but IMO this is the problem

The membership numbers are published annually and it is not a good look for a party to be obsessing about membership numbers all the time - correct

However the SNP NEC is not just one body - so some on the NEC definitely did know this was a big issue and some definitely did not

Who knew and who kept quiet ?

President
Michael Russell

National Secretary
Lorna Finn

National Treasurer
Colin Beattie

Organisation Convener
Stacy Bradley-Davidson

Policy Development Convener
Toni Giugliano

Member Support Convener
Jonathan Mackie

Local Government Convener
Kelly Parry

BAME Convener
Graham Campbell

Women’s Convener
Jen Layden

Equalities Convener
Kirsteen Fraser

Disabled Members’ Convener
Jamie Szymkowiak

NEC - Regional
Danny Aston
Eleanor Bird
Christina Cannon
Tracy Carragher
Ian Cockburn
Rob Davidson
Kirsty Jarvis
Alex Kerr
Findlay MacGregor
Graeme McCormick
Laura Mitchell
Siobhan Tolland
Sophie Traynor
Maureen Watt

NEC - Parliamentarian
Chris Law
Alison Thewliss

Conferences Committee

Malcolm Balfour
Declan Blench
Laura Doherty
Chris Hanlon
Emma Hendrie
Patrick Grady
Anouk Kloppert
Fiona Robertson
Munro Ross
Kairin van Sweeden

Policy Development Committee

Ann Ballinger
Alexander Belic
Shelly-Ann Brown
Peter Cairns
Summer Chen
Lynne Copland
Ian Gallagher
Qaiser Habib
Chris Hanlon
Mhairi Love
Russell McLean
Cameron McManus
Timothy Rideout
Stephen Thompson
Susan Wilkinson

Member Conduct Committee

Malcolm Balfour
Ann Ballinger
Declan Blench
Sinéad Collins
Graham Leadbitter
Fiona Robertson
Owen Thompson
Ruth Watson
Elaine Wylie

Conduct Appeals Committee

Kenneth Andrew
Marco Biagi
Michael Blackshaw
Roderick Campbell
Summer Chen
Ewan Hamilton
Lachlan McNeill

[Och Aye]

21 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

That's a mental comparison 😂

She like lost support because of her honesty and her beliefs but no candidate will please everyone. 

 

I wasn't being entirely serious. I really wouldn't ask her that 😄 The strength of independence movement is the younger generation, it's disheartening to hear so many of them (in my workplace anyway) say they wouldn't vote SNP if she becomes leader because of her views, particularly gay marriage. Frustrating as Forbes is the most competent. 

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Can only really blame Salmond here. He’s the man who put a plant in place. 

You have a point 

[hampden_loon2878]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

You also said many times you didn’t think she was a plant and that she was naive. 

Does it really matter what anyone said ? If the whole board had agreed with you and thplinth exactly what difference would it have made to this outcome other than give you a wee pat on the back when proven right? 

Yea yer right but it kinda highlights that asking question is a good thing, they used folks desire for independence to completely blind folk, totally took advantage of it.. I am absolutely gutted 

[Freeedom]

14 hours ago, daviebee said:

It IS good news and it's not a setback. The independence cause might need to take a step back but it's going to take a hell of a lot more steps forward now that stinking, festering cabal at the heart of the SNP is being reamed out.

I'd like to see all the careerists, expense-collectors and trough-slurpers cleared out as well and have them replaced with folk that'll actually fight for independence.  The sooner the likes of Black, Nicholson, Blackford, Blackman, Law, Wishart and the rest GTF the better.

Does anybody seriously believe - even the most deluded disciple of the Church of St Nikla - that employing that bstrd Murray Foote was a good idea or in any way, shape or form acceptable?  The architect of The Vow FFS!  The man who probably did more than any other person to fck us over in 2014 and Sturgeon employed the bstrd!

Let the blood-letting continue!  I really hope this Smitty character is the real deal.

Completely agree.

The only way for the party to move forward is to confront the structural problems that clearly exist. It's going to be a difficult transitional period but this is something that needed to happen. The party had been papering over the cracks for years and selling a lie.

Ultimately this can only be a good thing for our prospects of independence moving forward. It was NEVER going to happen with the SNP the way the party was operating

 

[TDYER63]

26 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Yea yer right but it kinda highlights that asking question is a good thing, they used folks desire for independence to completely blind folk, totally took advantage of it.. I am absolutely gutted 

Of course it’s right to question, and I will be the first to admit I do not have the time to analyse every conspiracy theory out there. The problem is there is so much nonsense it is easy to become sceptical of social media. 

We will just need to deal with whatever the fallout is , but everything will be a million times harder if worse is to come. 

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, Freeedom said:

Completely agree.

The only way for the party to move forward is to confront the structural problems that clearly exist. It's going to be a difficult transitional period but this is something that needed to happen. The party had been papering over the cracks for years and selling a lie.

Ultimately this can only be a good thing for our prospects of independence moving forward. It was NEVER going to happen with the SNP the way the party was operating

 

So how do you suggest independence moves forward without the SNP , or an SNP potentially caught up in a web of lies ? 

[mcguffin]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

The Republicans had money behind them and did not have the UK government to contend with. 

Fair point on the money. And I guess we could chuck in a hostile media into the mix.  But I think also Reagan had a message many US voters at the time wanted to hear, and had the communication skills (and speechwriters and so on) to get the message across. The SNP need to do the same.

As for having to contend with the UK government, yes also a good point. But Reagan had to contend with the USSR (albeit a USSR whose best days were behind them).

[daviebee]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

It is going to be a MASSIVE  setback, not one step. If the things this Smitty character is saying are true how do you envisage moving forward in any way whatsoever when the only party with the capability of taking us is embroiled in all this shit ? Absolutely no one will vote for them. People are looking for something different to what we currently have in the UK, do you think voters will risk the upheaval just to get more of the same when independent ?? Not all supporters of independence are stick on ‘no matter what’ nationalists. Many are tentative ‘yes’.

Kate Forbes or Ash Regan being in charge will not make one iota of a difference, the damage will be well done. Alba are not an alternative. More women hate AS than hate the bloody GRR bill. 
Unionists will be back in charge and you really can wave goodbye to independence for a lot more than a generation. 

If of course all these accusations are true. 

Once it comes out what these evil bstrds tried to do to Alex Salmond you'll find that the public perception of him will change.  Until now all they know is what they've read in the papers, seen on the TV, or witnessed from that screeching wee harridan during what was supposed to be a Covid briefing.  Not everyone reads the pro-indy blogs.

I've been saying for ages that this boil needs to be lanced ASAP so the sooner the better.  There's still 50% of the electorate up for grabs with the other 50 being split between 3 unionist parties so I wouldn't be too pessimistic.  That 50% are not going to suddenly vote for parties that have proven themselves to be enemies of Scotland (although you could argue that's what they've been doing for 8 years!).

Fumigating the SNP WILL make a difference - a HELL of a difference.  Once folk see that all the sh*te has been cleared out and a no-nonsense leader is in place who'll actually promote folk to her cabinet based on what's between their ears rather than their legs like Sturgeon's gender-balanced nonsense, the voters will come back.

There's been folk on this thread saying Sturgeon was a "plant".  I really don't think she was.  I reckon she was just a total incompetent who surrounded herself with nobodies that wouldn't outshine her, all the while keeping the referendum carrot dangling for her side of the electorate.  That day at the Hydro well and truly went to her head and that's when the personality cult started.  All over now though and been a long time in coming.

[Freeedom]

2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

So how do you suggest independence moves forward without the SNP , or an SNP potentially caught up in a web of lies ? 

What do you mean without the SNP? I'm talking about structural change in the party and reforming it for the better, how exactly is that a bad thing?

The SNP are already in a web of lies of their own making, addressing and confronting that issue is how we move forward. What exactly is your suggestion, that we ignore any of this happend and just soldier on?

[phart]

33 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

Fair point on the money. And I guess we could chuck in a hostile media into the mix.  But I think also Reagan had a message many US voters at the time wanted to hear, and had the communication skills (and speechwriters and so on) to get the message across. The SNP need to do the same.

As for having to contend with the UK government, yes also a good point. But Reagan had to contend with the USSR (albeit a USSR whose best days were behind them).

Not sure I personally would be holding up Thatcher's soul mate as who we need to emulate. Unless the point is other political parties have survived then thrived after scandals. Which is fair enough, two horse race in USA, but we're not quite at watergate levels either.

I get the heebie jeebies thinking about "Reaganomics" and the total disater they've wrought on normal working people while facilitating deregulation of media, finance and enviromental estates. Perpetuating the myth of trickledown economics. The arch neo-liberal economic.

[phart]

Getting rid of much of the centralisation of power in the SNP would be a good start for me. Under both Salmond and Sturgeon that was a problem for me. Increase the power of cabinet positions and briefs.

 

What other specific structural changes would people do?

[mcguffin]

24 minutes ago, phart said:

Not sure I personally would be holding up Thatcher's soul mate as who we need to emulate. Unless the point is other political parties have survived then thrived after scandals. Which is fair enough, two horse race in USA, but we're not quite at watergate levels either.

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. Apologies for giving you the heebie jeebies. I feel the same about 'Reagonomics' 🥶. But in terms of rebuilding a scandal-ridden party and getting a message across, there are maybe lessons for our politicians to learn?

[phart]

5 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

Yes, that was the point I was trying to make. Apologies for giving you the heebie jeebies. I feel the same about 'Reagonomics' 🥶. But in terms of rebuilding a scandal-ridden party and getting a message across, there are maybe lessons for our politicians to learn?

I think the most important thing is to use it as a catalyst for enacting actual changes. First thing i'd want to know is actually what has and has not happened. the comment sections of blogs isn't going to cut it for me at the moment.

[mcguffin]

5 minutes ago, phart said:

I think the most important thing is to use it as a catalyst for enacting actual changes. First thing i'd want to know is actually what has and has not happened. the comment sections of blogs isn't going to cut it for me at the moment.

👍Sensible words.

[Freeedom]

1 hour ago, phart said:

Getting rid of much of the centralisation of power in the SNP would be a good start for me. Under both Salmond and Sturgeon that was a problem for me. Increase the power of cabinet positions and briefs.

 

What other specific structural changes would people do?

Mostly this, I'd want to see a lot more transparency in the party. I want to see more debate around policy and I would like to see the SNP to be much more receptive to the wider yes movement which they have completely shut out.

The party need to make independence their focus again and devise a coherent strategy around that policy.

 

[brant grebner]

1 hour ago, phart said:

Getting rid of much of the centralisation of power in the SNP would be a good start for me. Under both Salmond and Sturgeon that was a problem for me. Increase the power of cabinet positions and briefs.

 

What other specific structural changes would people do?

bicameral parliament

fixed terms for all politicans

reduce salary to living wage for all MSPs

death by garrote for political corruption

[phart]

5 minutes ago, brant grebner said:

bicameral parliament

fixed terms for all politicans

reduce salary to living wage for all MSPs

death by garrote for political corruption

Fixed terms has been something i'd like for ages. Stop career politicians, makes it harder to buy someone for 40 years of political will.

Salary is a hard one, it's hard enough to attract folk, like unpaid internships only attract folk that can afford to do them and as a result favours certain sections of society. I get the theory behind it, but in practice is it really going to do what you hope? We'll get civic minded people applying, not sure.

Not really thought too deeply about bicameral, i'm also against capital punishment

[stocky]

Two terms is the max anyone should be at first minister etc 

Maybe 3 for all others .

That would get rid of dead wood like murdo, bailie, Rennie etc 

Also the snp deadwood. Lobby fodder etc..

however that would have stopped Nicola becoming first minister in 2014, as that was her 4th term I think....

 

I don't really know.....so maybe I'm just talking shite ..

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by stocky