SNP leadership election

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

I know what was inferred by Trumpian.  I can quite believe some people will think votes should have been allowed to be editable up until voting day given events and this muddies the results.  They will be partly correct but not enough to deem the whole thing void.

You cast a whole load of issues which were very arguable and just branded an insult at them.  Sounds a bit trumpy to me..😅.  

I’m not really aware of cases where someone can change their vote, the Regan team seem to be suggesting there is precedent for this, might be useful if someone actually asked them what that was, but then that would involve journalists doing their jobs.  
 

Well as I said, let’s just see what happens after the results are called.  

[scotlad]

9 hours ago, aaid said:

@Ally Bongo

any comment?

https://medium.com/@msm_monitor/bbc-scotland-ash-regan-and-the-campaign-to-delegitimise-the-snp-leadership-contest-a178ac408e6b

There are some valid points in that article. I don't know if it's fair to say the tactics adopted by Regan's team are Trumpian but they certainly seem Salmondian. Turning the membership numbers into an issue is typical of the political guerilla tactics he is famous for.

What I don't understand is why the SNP were so cagey about releasing the numbers in the first place. Okay, they show a significant drop in membership, which is slightly embarrassing, but compared to rival parties the membership numbers are still healthy. It certainly wouldn't have been as embarrassing as allowing it to turn into an issue, which is what has happened.

[Ally Bongo]

21 minutes ago, scotlad said:

What I don't understand is why the SNP were so cagey about releasing the numbers in the first place.

Because they would have had to address why so many people had left, particularly if the media had focused on it, in a relatively short space of time

They might not have liked the answers because it may have been down to policy and it is almost certain that's how it would have been spun

I think now that a certain few at the top did know and had been aware of it for a while which is not good 

[Malcolm]

The CEO of “not for profit” circularity Scotland that run the DRS is on a reported £300k a year.  The Snp/greens taxing you and I extra money than Westminster do to pay for this.

What an obscene waste of money.

 

[aaid]

7 hours ago, scotlad said:

There are some valid points in that article. I don't know if it's fair to say the tactics adopted by Regan's team are Trumpian but they certainly seem Salmondian. Turning the membership numbers into an issue is typical of the political guerilla tactics he is famous for.

What I don't understand is why the SNP were so cagey about releasing the numbers in the first place. Okay, they show a significant drop in membership, which is slightly embarrassing, but compared to rival parties the membership numbers are still healthy. It certainly wouldn't have been as embarrassing as allowing it to turn into an issue, which is what has happened.

Particularly his recent comment about taking decades to build a party and months to destroy it, which kind of rewrites history given that the membership was 25,000 when he resigned.  

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

The CEO of “not for profit” circularity Scotland that run the DRS is on a reported £300k a year.  The Snp/greens taxing you and I extra money than Westminster do to pay for this.

What an obscene waste of money.

 

I’m surprised at you complaining about someone earning a good salary, I’d have thought it would the sort of thing that you would be fully in favour of.  

[Malcolm]

49 minutes ago, aaid said:

I’m surprised at you complaining about someone earning a good salary, I’d have thought it would the sort of thing that you would be fully in favour of.  

only when it contributes to wealth creation and not wealth destruction.  A completely unnecessary job that adds no value.  The CEO of the Scottish national investment bank only got just over 200k.  This country has its priorities wrong.

im all for people making big money when the create wealth, take risk and take a share of profit, not for those funded by tax payers.

[stocky]

35 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

only when it contributes to wealth creation and not wealth destruction.  A completely unnecessary job that adds no value.  The CEO of the Scottish national investment bank only got just over 200k.  This country has its priorities wrong.

im all for people making big money when the create wealth, take risk and take a share of profit, not for those funded by tax payers.

So by your logic doctors, consultants etc shouldn't be paid a high salary.🤔😉

[Malcolm]

16 minutes ago, stocky said:

So by your logic doctors, consultants etc shouldn't be paid a high salary.🤔😉

ha ha, to be fair, if you took my comments literally then you could argue that.  I think most of us would agree we need to pay them in a way that is commensurate with the market, and by that I mean the global market, in order to keep them in the Uk.

 

[aaid]

33 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

ha ha, to be fair, if you took my comments literally then you could argue that.  I think most of us would agree we need to pay them in a way that is commensurate with the market, and by that I mean the global market, in order to keep them in the Uk.

 

So what you’re saying is that only people that do jobs that you consider to have “worth” should be paid a lot of money.  

[hampden_loon2878]

Really want Kate to get in, the longer the contest has gone on the more humza fails and Kate grows. This is such a pivotal moment in the snp and independence movements history 

[Alibi]

I quite like Kate - but I don't really see her as a credible leader of the indy movement.  I find Yousaf to be pretty hopeless and he has changed his views on various things during the campaign - from what I've seen, he is now a transphobe according to the SNP's own definition (I don't for a minute think he's a transphobe but the SNP's definition is flawed).  Yousaf seems to be getting caught out on self ID, calling "Isla Bryson" he/him.  He's all over the place, but that's ultimately a result of the TWAW mantra (which is just plain nonsense).  I just find him pretty unlikeable.

The candidate who has talked the most sense, and generally been pretty consistent, is Ash Regan.  She doesn't fudge the independence issue, which IMHO should be a prerequisite for any SNP leader.  She has not been given an easy time by the MSM and she started poorly, but over the course of the last few weeks she has gained in confidence and presentational skills.  We're at a crossroads here, and it's a choice between total disaster (Yousaf), managerial competence but with no real fire (Kate) and starting to fight back against WM, pulling no punches (Ash).  I know what I prefer.

Regarding the editing of votes, I don't see a problem with that.  Why on earth did they even open the voting process when the campaign had only just started?  Things have changed in the interim and of course people would be able to reconsider.  Yousaf has probably already got a lot of votes from people who have now realised that he has changed his whole campaign direction - maybe he's now trying to catch a few voters who oppose GRR for example.  An election has to be done at a moment in time, not before anyone knows what any of the candidates think.  It's clear to me that Yousaf was being promoted by SNP HQ and now that Murrell has gone along with others, the whole thing looks like an attempted fiddle.  It's not a level playing field.

[hampden_loon2878]

4 minutes ago, Alibi said:

I quite like Kate - but I don't really see her as a credible leader of the indy movement.  I find Yousaf to be pretty hopeless and he has changed his views on various things during the campaign - from what I've seen, he is now a transphobe according to the SNP's own definition (I don't for a minute think he's a transphobe but the SNP's definition is flawed).  Yousaf seems to be getting caught out on self ID, calling "Isla Bryson" he/him.  He's all over the place, but that's ultimately a result of the TWAW mantra (which is just plain nonsense).  I just find him pretty unlikeable.

The candidate who has talked the most sense, and generally been pretty consistent, is Ash Regan.  She doesn't fudge the independence issue, which IMHO should be a prerequisite for any SNP leader.  She has not been given an easy time by the MSM and she started poorly, but over the course of the last few weeks she has gained in confidence and presentational skills.  We're at a crossroads here, and it's a choice between total disaster (Yousaf), managerial competence but with no real fire (Kate) and starting to fight back against WM, pulling no punches (Ash).  I know what I prefer.

Regarding the editing of votes, I don't see a problem with that.  Why on earth did they even open the voting process when the campaign had only just started?  Things have changed in the interim and of course people would be able to reconsider.  Yousaf has probably already got a lot of votes from people who have now realised that he has changed his whole campaign direction - maybe he's now trying to catch a few voters who oppose GRR for example.  An election has to be done at a moment in time, not before anyone knows what any of the candidates think.  It's clear to me that Yousaf was being promoted by SNP HQ and now that Murrell has gone along with others, the whole thing looks like an attempted fiddle.  It's not a level playing field.

Agree with a lot of that, only difference I think Kate would run a sound government and there would be zero the MSM could dig up on her as that is why they have gone after her faith. I like ash’s gun hoe attitude and it has been sorely missed since salmond left, then two would do well together 

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, Alibi said:

 

Regarding the editing of votes, I don't see a problem with that.  Why on earth did they even open the voting process when the campaign had only just started?  Things have changed in the interim and of course people would be able to reconsider.  Yousaf has probably already got a lot of votes from people who have now realised that he has changed his whole campaign direction - maybe he's now trying to catch a few voters who oppose GRR for example.  An election has to be done at a moment in time, not before anyone knows what any of the candidates think.  It's clear to me that Yousaf was being promoted by SNP HQ and now that Murrell has gone along with others, the whole thing looks like an attempted fiddle.  It's not a level playing field.

IMO, the problem was that they were allowed to continue campaigning after the vote was started. The campaign should have ended the day before voting stared, and the candidates should have been told to get back to doing the jobs that they are paid to do. I would guess that at least 80% of the votes have already been cast and the result has already been decided. So, the candidates are now just wasting a lot of hot air and getting themselves, and the party, into bother whist waiting for the result to be announced.

[Ally Bongo]

First few hustings when voting opened;

Humza - i will fight Westminster for overruling the GRR bill passed by the Scottish Parliament - How dare they

Applause

Kate - I will discuss the GRR with Westminster to see what their objections are but i will also take legal advice on taking it to the supreme court and if it's unlikely we would win i will not

Muffled silence

Final Hustings a few days before the ballot closes

Humza -

I will take legal advice on taking the GRR ruling to the Supreme Court and if that advice says we will lose then i wont

[hampden_loon2878]

12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

First few hustings when voting opened;

Humza - i will fight Westminster for overruling the GRR bill passed by the Scottish Parliament - How dare they

Applause

Kate - I will discuss the GRR with Westminster to see what their objections are but i will also take legal advice on taking it to the supreme court and if it's unlikely we would win i will not

Muffled silence

Final Hustings a few days before the ballot closes

Humza -

I will take legal advice on taking the GRR ruling to the Supreme Court and if that advice says we will lose then i wont

The man will be a train wreck as FM, he has a purpose in government but leading it is not it 

[Haggis_trap]

3 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Really want Kate to get in, the longer the contest has gone on the more humza fails and Kate grows. This is such a pivotal moment in the snp and independence movements history 

I voted Kate Forbes...
Cambridge graduate, real world experience at Barclays, media trained and economically literate.
She is also young, female and likely to appeal to cross section of voters who might not otherwise think SNP.
Hence the reason unionist media are making a storm about church she attends.

Ash Regan is well intention-ed / principled but simply not in the same league.

[Alibi]

4 minutes ago, Haggis_trap said:

I voted Kate Forbes...
Cambridge graduate, real world experience at Barclays, media trained and economically literate.
She is also young, female and likely to appeal to cross section of voters who might not otherwise think SNP.
Hence the reason unionist media are making a storm about church she attends.

Ash Regan is well intention-ed / principled but simply not in the same league.

I think they'd work well as a team.  Kate would be a decent FM but I don't see her as being aggressive enough to stand up to WM; Ash would also make a good FM but clearly she's cut from a different cloth. I think together they would have the right assets to win back voters who might have been scared off by the recent shenanigans.  If Kate wins she should hand over the constitution minister post to Ash; if Ash wins, she could do worse than having Kate back  in the finance position which I think is probably her area of most strength.  Take on WM as a sort of good cop, bad cop pairing.  Cagney and Lacey with a tartan twist.  Would certainly be a lot more interesting than post-2017 Sturgeonism.  And whoever wins needs to bring the whole indy movement up to the right end of the pitch.

[Ally Bongo]

Angus Robertson joins John Swinney in endorsing Humza again just in case anybody missed it

[AlfieMoon]

3 hours ago, Alibi said:

I think they'd work well as a team.  Kate would be a decent FM but I don't see her as being aggressive enough to stand up to WM; Ash would also make a good FM but clearly she's cut from a different cloth. I think together they would have the right assets to win back voters who might have been scared off by the recent shenanigans.  If Kate wins she should hand over the constitution minister post to Ash; if Ash wins, she could do worse than having Kate back  in the finance position which I think is probably her area of most strength.  Take on WM as a sort of good cop, bad cop pairing.  Cagney and Lacey with a tartan twist.  Would certainly be a lot more interesting than post-2017 Sturgeonism.  And whoever wins needs to bring the whole indy movement up to the right end of the pitch.

I think you’d be surprised. 

The fact that she withstood the barrage of criticism at the outset of the contest I think shows her steel. I’ve also been told of that from someone in the business community who has had dealings with the government on tax. 

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Angus Robertson joins John Swinney in endorsing Humza again just in case anybody missed it

[Ally Bongo]

57 minutes ago, aaid said:

Angus Robertson

 

@AngusRobertson

·

Mar 14

 

As a party and movement, in challenging times, now more than ever we need to come together & put our shoulders to the wheel. Humza Yousaf is the person to unite, re-energise and inspire us to govern effectively for all in Scotland and win our independence.

 

Angus Robertson

 

@AngusRobertson

·

5h

 

I have voted for Humza Yousaf to be party leader. SNP members should consider each of the candidates and cast their vote so that our new leader has as much support as possible. Best wishes to all members in this important time.

Edited March 22, 2023 by Ally Bongo

[aaid]

5 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Angus Robertson

 

@AngusRobertson

·

Mar 14

 

As a party and movement, in challenging times, now more than ever we need to come together & put our shoulders to the wheel. Humza Yousaf is the person to unite, re-energise and inspire us to govern effectively for all in Scotland and win our independence.

 

Angus Robertson

 

@AngusRobertson

·

5h

 

I have voted for Humza Yousaf to be party leader. SNP members should consider each of the candidates and cast their vote so that our new leader has as much support as possible. Best wishes to all members in this important time.

I think you misunderstand that meme.   I’m not suggesting you’re a liar, I’m suggesting that you’re becoming a bit unhinged here.  

[hampden_loon2878]

17 minutes ago, aaid said:

I think you misunderstand that meme.   I’m not suggesting you’re a liar, I’m suggesting that you’re becoming a bit unhinged here.  

At least he’s not a HQ drone who can think for himself 

[aaid]

6 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

At least he’s not a HQ drone who can think for himself 

I’m someone who can choose to ignore an MP’s or MSP’s endorsement if I want, the same as pretty much anyone I guess.