trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Qualifying for the World Cup playoffs can be added to that Look at where we were before that too. It is genuinely mind boggling the turnaround. But apparently the last qualification was lucky cause a spain players slipped and they gave up in 2nd half 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, theabsentee said: I liked Clarke as a player & also he has done a good job as manager but it is wearing thin as he does seem very stubborn & slow to change it when it's not working. This is just a example, we have a 29 year old player playing who its fair to say has had a good if unspectacular career as a attacking midfielder. This season his English premier league club side have converted him to a deeper role in midfield & as a consequence the player seems to have taking his game to another level , the difference is that significant that you could even say he is now one of best in the best League in the world in this position yet Clarke fails to acknowledge this & continues to play the player in his previous advanced role in which he rarely puts in more than a decent performance. Long post but if your a stats man if Christie as a attacking midfielder more often that not gives you a 6 or 7 out of 10, since playing deeper he regular gives you a 8 + level performance why the hell is he still playing further forward in friendly matches! This is it for me, I think Clarke trusts Christie in the attacking midfielder pressing role and will not sway away from that. It's almost as if he has no belief in his own tactical abilities to convert him into the CDM position like he is at Bournemouth so I'm worried that Clarke (despite his good efforts past few years) will end up stalling this team from moving forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, trout101 said: Look at where we were before that too. It is genuinely mind boggling the turnaround. But apparently the last qualification was lucky cause a spain players slipped and they gave up in 2nd half 😆 The turnaround isn't mindblogging at all, look at the group of players we have in this squad. We have been underacheiving for way too long now and it was a matter of time before we started performing as a nation and a lot of this is down to Clarke and the players. However, you could argue that if this form carries on into the Euros then Clarke will be a vicitm of his own success and a lot of this will be down to how Clarke picks the team, it's formation, tactics etc. The team are certainly giving it their all but we are just way too predictable and easy to snuff out these days and we need to be adapting to this which I think Clarke is now failing at. I hope he turns this form around though and think he can but he doesn't help himself at all at times. For example picking 4 goalies!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 hours ago, kumnio said: That attitude is nonsense. Every game matters, every single one. No wonder we struggle to improve. Simply not true, you're just glossing over what you don't want to see. Cyprus was good, England was embarrassing, Spain was decent, France was humiliating, Georgia was insipid, Norway was poor, Netherlands was decent before we collapsed and NI was dreadful. Think thats all we have played this season, we haven't been a really good footballing team this season, let alone 2-3 years. I wanted him sacked a couple of years ago, I fully believe he deserved it. Im not calling for him to be sacked now, but results and performances are very worrying, formations, tactics and substitutions are very questionable. We have went backwards over the last year, even allowing for the teams that we have played & he needs to stop this slide. If he doesn't, then I fear Germany will be another 1 point gained, 1 goal scored waste of time. Nobody is saying every game doesnt matter but clearly some games are more important than others. Especially in terms of results. As others have pointed out Clarke has got the results when it matters. Back to back euro qualification, play off for world cup and promotion to the top league of nations league. In terms of competitive games what more do you think he should have achieved? Qualifying for the wolrd cup aswell as the other 2 majors aftee us not qualifying for over 20 years previously? If you cant see that we were a really good footballing team for the 1st 70 mins against Holland then I cant help you. Name another performance before Clarke where we have dominated a tier 1 nation in such a way. Almost every good result I can remember against a top side has been a backs to the wall smash and grab. Yes the result was poor and we collapsed but these are lessons that need learned. All this talk of being lucky in qualification is nonsence. Every team carrys good and back luck. Wa sit unlucky Hickey slipped in Spain or the questionable VAR decision. Was it unlucky the Holland GK pulled off a world class save from Christie at nil nil? We have had some poor performances under Clarke. ROI being the main one that springs to mind but we have had way more good than bad. NI was unacceptable, really poor but it was a friendly. It doesnt affect anything at the end if the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Bale certainly carried them through a number of games but even still, it's a team effort in order to win any game and they were getting to the latter stages of major tournaments. More solid defenders? I don't believe they had any better defenders than us currently tbh. They bled in the likes of Bale, Ramsey, Davies etc from a teenagers and built up a lot of experience and caps by their early 20's that made them successful for a long period of time. We end up waiting for players to turn early 20's before they start getting regular game time if they're lucky. England/Spain/Brazil - Maino/Yamal/Endrick all teenagers starting games for their national teams. These are just three examples I can think of off the top of my head but there has been plenty more. Doig - Probably would be warming the bench but he would of got on at LB once Robo went off and could of been used in previous games in place of Taylor who is bog standard. But nah, Clarke will play him as he's a loyal servant and turns up! Doak - Should of been picked in previous squads before he was injured. Drop one of the many CB's or we have or Liam Kelly. Again Clarke, far too safe in what he does, does my tits in as he could of been a wildcard pick. If not Doak then why hasn't Fraser been selected as a much needed winger? We are crying out for them... Conway - A lot younger so has a higher ceiling potentially, why not try him out and see if he is our future no 9? so in reality Clarke has three potential teenagers he could've called, none of which are particularly deserving of a call up more than their competition except they are younger. Mainoo - a revelation for Man Utd lately. any nation would call him up Yamal - a once in a lifetime 16 year old with 29 appearances for the Barca first team since April 2023 Endrick - again e is a regular for Palmeiras, the Brazilian champions. The only teenage sensation we have come close to is Doak who hasn't done what any of the above did. Gilmour was started at Wembley by Clarke at the age of 18 so there is evidence that Clarke will give debuts to speciall talents, patterson also started age 19. until looking into the above I thought Clarke was very stubborn and the whole Doak, Doig and Conway argument only arises when we perform poorly because everyone on here thinks they know the answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanBlessed Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, trout101 said: Obviously not. But we did deserve to beat Spain & Georgia at home didn't we. We were the better team. Yeah Norway was smash and grab but who cares. It's just ludicrous mentioning a spain player slipping in the build up for a goal as if that somehow devalues the result. The performance that night was excellent. You don't qualify like that due to luck. We did it cause we were the 2nd best team in the group over 10 games (almost best). If you're talking about luck - what about McT's goal being ruled out v Spain away. The point was that things have to go for you. In that Spain match, we played well BUT everything went for us. Similarly against Georgia, that ball doesn't fall to Callum McGregor on a playable pitch. Would we have won both games anyway? The first maybe and the second probably. In Seville, Jack Hendry was in an offside position and interfering with play. I was annoyed because I'm sick of VAR interfering in marginal offside decisions but that wasn't bad luck. The keeper probably wouldn't have got it but it couldn't be allowed for that. In fact, up until that point, I can't think of a single moment when things didn't go for us in qualification. I'm not complaining as you need those moments. I just hope we get them in the tournament as we rarely have. Look at the Czech game last year. That could have gone either way as we actually played OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said: Ok then, we'll use qualification records instead. By the end of the year, Steve Clarke could be 2nd only behind Craig Brown in games managed. He has already managed Scotland in more than double the number of games that McLeish did, so of course you'll have sticky spells. McLeish also never played likes of England, France, Holland etc in friendlies. He also inherited a great side from Smith. Clarke inherited a car crash from McLeish. Last night was utter dross, not one person would say otherwise. Players, management etc all take blame for that. I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I'm not too bothered about last nights result. Results in friendlies aren't too important, IMO. I'm pretty sure our opponents in Germany won't be reading too much into it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviebee Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said: We got a goal chalked off for fuck all in Spain. That goal goes in, we win the group. Luck hasn't always gone our way, With a MAJOR incentive , i.e. qualifying with 8 wins out of 8 which I believe we would've done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 7 minutes ago, Orraloon said: I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I'm not too bothered about last nights result. Results in friendlies aren't too important, IMO. I'm pretty sure our opponents in Germany won't be reading too much into it either. Results in friendlies don’t matter. The point of them is to learn the value of the players in the squad. Clarke didn’t do that. Regarding our opponents in Germany, it’s not hard to see them drawing their opening games in the belief that we are the weakest link and they both expect to beat us. I think both countries would bite your hand of to be in a situation were beating us meant qualification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 48 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: The turnaround isn't mindblogging at all Before Clarke came in we were getting pumped by Kazakhstan. How you can be so negative to not claim Clarke's tenure has been a massive turnaround I do not know. 49 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: we are just way too predictable and easy to snuff out these days It's been a few friendlies and dead rubbers you numpty. We qualified for the euros with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 2 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said: Results in friendlies don’t matter. The point of them is to learn the value of the players in the squad. Clarke didn’t do that. Regarding our opponents in Germany, it’s not hard to see them drawing their opening games in the belief that we are the weakest link and they both expect to beat us. I think both countries would bite your hand of to be in a situation were beating us meant qualification. Can't see Hungary and Switzerland deliberately playing for a draw in their first game. We will already have 3 points in the bag, as we play the night before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 42 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: so in reality Clarke has three potential teenagers he could've called, none of which are particularly deserving of a call up more than their competition except they are younger. Mainoo - a revelation for Man Utd lately. any nation would call him up Yamal - a once in a lifetime 16 year old with 29 appearances for the Barca first team since April 2023 Endrick - again e is a regular for Palmeiras, the Brazilian champions. The only teenage sensation we have come close to is Doak who hasn't done what any of the above did. Gilmour was started at Wembley by Clarke at the age of 18 so there is evidence that Clarke will give debuts to speciall talents, patterson also started age 19. until looking into the above I thought Clarke was very stubborn and the whole Doak, Doig and Conway argument only arises when we perform poorly because everyone on here thinks they know the answer There's other young players that can be potentially called up also but Doig and Doak are the two main ones for now. I was asked to provide examples which I did. These countries have an abundance of quality world class players yet are still picking teenagers to start ahead of them. You have to question why we wait an eternity to do the same and persist with total jobbers in the meantime? Gilmour and Patterson were only played because we were struggling big time for a RB and tbf he did give Gilmour his chance but then again, there was very little competition there. The argument doesn't just arise, people have been crying out for these changes for a while regardless of how well we are doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Doak is out injured until the end of the season. Doig is an option but he has not been getting regular first team football either. Plus Robertson/Tierney cover that left-back/left wing-back role si is there a need for a third? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Bra Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 Not in the ‘Steve Clark Fuck Off’ camp at all as the positives far outweigh the negatives. Just want to add that the reason we qualified for Euro 2020 was due to us winning our Nations League group which McLeish was in charge for, Clarke took us through the 2 play off games. Really hoping that after June, we’re all saying ‘who gives a fuck about friendlies?’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 4 minutes ago, trout101 said: Before Clarke came in we were getting pumped by Kazakhstan. How you can be so negative to not claim Clarke's tenure has been a massive turnaround I do not know. It's been a few friendlies and dead rubbers you numpty. We qualified for the euros with ease. So you have picked one bad game and based everything around that have you. Clarke has had a number of bad games in his time... There has been a turnaround mainly due to the quality of player we have to pick is now far greater than ever but yes Clarke has did well also to get a settled formation working and has done incredibly well in the past campaign barring a few games which give me some concern. Clarke is allowed to be criticised as long as it is constructive and fair... A few friendlies and dead rubbers where we have been beaten comfortably and have learned nothing at all, are you not a little concerned by this at all considering the euros are around the corner and we are not actually trying anything different? I think you are the numpty here if you can't have a constructive conversation about the team and where we can improve things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 15 minutes ago, trout101 said: It's been a few friendlies and dead rubbers you numpty. We qualified for the euros with ease. You are kidding yourself if you believe that Yes we qualified early however we were a defenders slip and a cocky substitution away from us finishing 3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 34 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: he did give Gilmour his chance but then again, there was very little competition there. very little competition at centre mid? stop being ridiculous. 27 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: are you not a little concerned by this at all considering the euros are around the corner and we are not actually trying anything different? last night was dreadful and I would have liked to see some more tinkering such as christie deeper and McT further forward etc but at the end of the day I'd rather focus on a near flawless qualifying campaign rather than 2 friendlies. I'm late 20s and spending my summer going to germany to watch scotland - my main feeling is one of elation. 30 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said: Clarke has had a number of bad games in his time... and yet he has got us to 2 tournaments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stockholm 1980 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 The problem Clarke has made is in not giving enough uncapped players a chance or game time. There is no width or proper wingers in the squad and wingers are the best way to get behind a team like N.I. were last night. The lack of a decent striker doesn't help but we usually found a way of scoring from Midfield or Defenders for the last two years or so. He is likely to go to the Euros with no one new from those who are in or have been in recent squads, but as soon as we are knocked out 6/8 of that 23 man squad will never play again, so you could argue these 6/8 shouldn't be going For me these are Kelly Clark Patterson Souttar Taylor Christie Adams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 25 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: You are kidding yourself if you believe that Yes we qualified early however we were a defenders slip and a cocky substitution away from us finishing 3rd fuck me this forum and the TA in general is full of absolute negative nancies. We qualified with 2 games to spare and were the 5th team to qualify for the whole thing. Any other team scores 2 goals in a minute to beat Norway at home would be praised but no it is luck when it us apparently. Also wtf is this 'defender slip' pish? Hickey slipped to gift Spain a goal in spain after our goal was disallowed. We were closer to finishing 1st than not qualifying. Lighten up and enjoy our best period in over 25 years ffs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout101 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 minute ago, Stockholm 1980 said: The problem Clarke has made is in not giving enough uncapped players a chance or game time. There is no width or proper wingers in the squad and wingers are the best way to get behind a team like N.I. were last night. The lack of a decent striker doesn't help but we usually found a way of scoring from Midfield or Defenders for the last two years or so. He is likely to go to the Euros with no one new from those who are in or have been in recent squads, but as soon as we are knocked out 6/8 of that 23 man squad will never play again, so you could argue these 6/8 shouldn't be going For me these are Kelly Clark Patterson Souttar Taylor Christie Adams Christie Patterson and Adams will never play again after Euro 2024? I must be reading this wrong cause there is surely no way you can actually think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 5 minutes ago, Stockholm 1980 said: The problem Clarke has made is in not giving enough uncapped players a chance or game time. There is no width or proper wingers in the squad and wingers are the best way to get behind a team like N.I. were last night. The lack of a decent striker doesn't help but we usually found a way of scoring from Midfield or Defenders for the last two years or so. He is likely to go to the Euros with no one new from those who are in or have been in recent squads, but as soon as we are knocked out 6/8 of that 23 man squad will never play again, so you could argue these 6/8 shouldn't be going For me these are Kelly Clark Patterson Souttar Taylor Christie Adams Christie has been one of our most consistent players over the past few years and you think he shouldn't be in the squad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 39 minutes ago, trout101 said: fuck me this forum and the TA in general is full of absolute negative nancies. We qualified with 2 games to spare and were the 5th team to qualify for the whole thing. Any other team scores 2 goals in a minute to beat Norway at home would be praised but no it is luck when it us apparently. Also wtf is this 'defender slip' pish? Hickey slipped to gift Spain a goal in spain after our goal was disallowed. We were closer to finishing 1st than not qualifying. Lighten up and enjoy our best period in over 25 years ffs! Totally agree mate, good post 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 1 hour ago, Scotty2Hotty said: So you have picked one bad game and based everything around that have you. Clarke has had a number of bad games in his time... There has been a turnaround mainly due to the quality of player we have to pick is now far greater than ever but yes Clarke has did well also to get a settled formation working and has done incredibly well in the past campaign barring a few games which give me some concern. Clarke is allowed to be criticised as long as it is constructive and fair... A few friendlies and dead rubbers where we have been beaten comfortably and have learned nothing at all, are you not a little concerned by this at all considering the euros are around the corner and we are not actually trying anything different? I think you are the numpty here if you can't have a constructive conversation about the team and where we can improve things... How many bad results has Clarke had in competitive games? I can only think of Ireland away. I think we lost to Israel as well but thats all I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 46 minutes ago, trout101 said: fuck me this forum and the TA in general is full of absolute negative nancies. We qualified with 2 games to spare and were the 5th team to qualify for the whole thing. Any other team scores 2 goals in a minute to beat Norway at home would be praised but no it is luck when it us apparently. Also wtf is this 'defender slip' pish? Hickey slipped to gift Spain a goal in spain after our goal was disallowed. We were closer to finishing 1st than not qualifying. Lighten up and enjoy our best period in over 25 years ffs! This place is mental. It's amazing after what Clarke has achieved that this thread is getting trawled back up as some kind of 'justification' and ppl are greeting that Clarke isn't good enough or we got lucky in qualifying. We are lucky this guy bothered his arse taking the poison chalice that was the Scotland job. Not only that but the fucker has actually stayed loyal to Scotland unlike ppl like McLeish or smith who fucked off as soon as a 'better' offer came in. Qualified for 2 tournaments, world cup play offs and won our nations league and ppl ain't happy because we lost a few friendly games to top opposition. Jesus wept. As for the argument of having better players these days. If you consider strikers who can't score in the English championship or defenders and a goalkeeper who play for average championship sides as much better than our previous options then sorry but you are talking shit. Our squad today is only slightly better than the previous ones of the last 20 years. I would even say our squads from 2007/2008 were probably equal to todays one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 21 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said: How many bad results has Clarke had in competitive games? I can only think of Ireland away. I think we lost to Israel as well but thats all I can think of. You are forgetting the most important one. Ukraine humped us at Hampden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.