Starting 11 v Ukraine

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

Still pretty angry now thinking about how abject the performance was, in front of a home, capacity crowd, against opponents who, some thought, wouldn't be mentally right for this game. Even more frustrating is the fact that if we got through, we would have been in a group that would have given us such a fantastic chance of getting through, considering we were fourth seeds . How we could go from the fantastic performance against Denmark to this, only we could do it. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Bobby Russell's Lovechild

[ThistleWhistle]

37 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Still pretty angry now thinking about how abject the performance was, in front of a home, capacity crowd, against opponents who, some thought, wouldn't be mentally right for this game. Even more frustrating is the fact that if we got through, we would have been in a group that would have given us such a fantastic chance of getting through, considering we were fourth seeds . How we could go from the fantastic performance against Denmark to this, only we could do it. 

Yeah and me - the manager's formation was wrong and needs to have a Plan B when Tierney isn't available. Plenty of credit in the bank.

Players were all varying degrees of shit but were defeated mentally before setting foot on the park - wonder if any Welsh legends are in the press wanting Ukraine win.  I think we've taken heat off of them but also they're mentally stronger than us - they'll be rattling into them from the off rather than the bollocks we were served

My biggest disappointment was Robertson delaying joining camp to instead go to the Liverpool victory runners up parade instead of getting his arse to captain Scotland in their biggest game in his lifetime. Poor for me that and would question his suitability for the role.

[McTeeko]

I said at the time when Tierney was made unavailable that Stephen Kingsley was the perfect replacement for him as he plays that attacking left-sided centre half brilliantly too. However I didn’t think there was anyway Clarke would throw him in untested in such a big game however that is exactly what he did with Hickey 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Never want to see McTominay in that right centre half position again. Especially with Souttar available who is also good with the ball at his feet. McTominay has now cost us a few goals due to his lack of defensive awareness. His defending for the second goal the other day was abysmal - caught under the ball, lost his man and left their attacker with a simple finish while he spun about completely lost. 
 

Whole team was utter guff the other night and I’m still fucked off with it all. Absolutely no enthusiasm for the Nations League now. No point doing well in that and securing an early play-off place if we can’t handle the actual play off 😏

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Yeah and me - the manager's formation was wrong and needs to have a Plan B when Tierney isn't available. Plenty of credit in the bank.

Players were all varying degrees of shit but were defeated mentally before setting foot on the park - wonder if any Welsh legends are in the press wanting Ukraine win.  I think we've taken heat off of them but also they're mentally stronger than us - they'll be rattling into them from the off rather than the bollocks we were served

My biggest disappointment was Robertson delaying joining camp to instead go to the Liverpool victory runners up parade instead of getting his arse to captain Scotland in their biggest game in his lifetime. Poor for me that and would question his suitability for the role.

Imagine if a pretty average Welsh team go on and put a good performance on Sunday, that'll highlight how bad we were even more.

[ger intae them]

A hell of a lot of bed wetting going on here. Totally shit and disappointing performance by all outfield players & management ……. no one disagrees with that……. but it happened, as it can to almost any team.

Hopefully massive learning to them all and euros is now the focus. They should realise that quickly as we can’t afford to let any qualification opportunities go because we’re sitting around greeting about what should have been on weds night.

Get back on the horse quickly.

[Ally Bongo]

12 minutes ago, ger intae them said:

 

Hopefully massive learning to them all and euros is now the focus. They should realise that quickly as we can’t afford to let any qualification opportunities go because we’re sitting around greeting about what should have been on weds night.

Get back on the horse quickly.

The massive learning should have took place at the Euros last year with our two home games

Same performances - same result

It isnt just coincidence

[scotlad]

15 hours ago, thesaint said:

The only thing Souness is a fan of is....Souness.

"For sure..."

[scotlad]

4 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Still pretty angry now thinking about how abject the performance was, in front of a home, capacity crowd, against opponents who, some thought, wouldn't be mentally right for this game. Even more frustrating is the fact that if we got through, we would have been in a group that would have given us such a fantastic chance of getting through, considering we were fourth seeds . How we could go from the fantastic performance against Denmark to this, only we could do it. 

Aye, looking at the World Cup group we'd have gone into qualifying from it looks very doable. We'd probably have found a way to fuck it up though. 😂

It wasn't Denmark's strongest team we faced in the autumn and really they didn't have much to play for - but we did, and we took care of things excellently. That was the kind of performance I was hoping for on Wednesday, instead we got a "Czech Republic in the Euros" kind of performance.

In the past year we've lost at home in competitive games to three good-not great European teams by two goal margins.

[Guest Scot1]

11 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

So whats the options here. We sack clarke and try and get someone better. Personally i dont think we would get someone alot better than clarke. I think clarke is a good fit for us. He gets the best out of average players as shown at wba and kilmarnock. Our current squad isnt particulary strong. Its slightly better than our previous squads but we still rely on average players who play in the championship or average spl teams. Guys like hanley and cooper are championship level centre backs,  european teams dont usuallly qualify for world cups with that level of players. Its a cold hard fact that its unlikely we will qualify for the world cup with a squad of our quality regardless of the manager in charge.

I disagree , I think we have a very good squad and with the right manager we would be a handful for most teams. Don’t really want to go back and forth about Clarke or the squad. We have different opinions, I think Clarke is limited as a coach/manager and the danger is he won’t get the full potential from this group of players, that’s my opinion. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.

[thesaint]

12 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The massive learning should have took place at the Euros last year with our two home games

Same performances - same result

It isnt just coincidence

Exactly. Clarke just doesn't learn from past mistakes. He seems totally unable to cast aside the negative mindset. He made huge mistakes at the euros and we were abject and now he simply repeats those mistakes again against Ukraine when we were an abomination. You've got to question anyone who keeps repeating the same mistakes time after time. 

[thesaint]

35 minutes ago, ger intae them said:

A hell of a lot of bed wetting going on here. Totally shit and disappointing performance by all outfield players & management ……. no one disagrees with that……. but it happened, as it can to almost any team.

Hopefully massive learning to them all and euros is now the focus. They should realise that quickly as we can’t afford to let any qualification opportunities go because we’re sitting around greeting about what should have been on weds night.

Get back on the horse quickly.

Get back on the horse quickly. Embarrassing drivel

 

[ceudmilefailte]

4 hours ago, McTeeko said:

I said at the time when Tierney was made unavailable that Stephen Kingsley was the perfect replacement for him as he plays that attacking left-sided centre half brilliantly too. However I didn’t think there was anyway Clarke would throw him in untested in such a big game however that is exactly what he did with Hickey 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

Never want to see McTominay in that right centre half position again. Especially with Souttar available who is also good with the ball at his feet. McTominay has now cost us a few goals due to his lack of defensive awareness. His defending for the second goal the other day was abysmal - caught under the ball, lost his man and left their attacker with a simple finish while he spun about completely lost. 
 

Whole team was utter guff the other night and I’m still fucked off with it all. Absolutely no enthusiasm for the Nations League now. No point doing well in that and securing an early play-off place if we can’t handle the actual play off 😏

Is there much difference between risking an inexperienced player in his natural position than risking an experienced player in an unnatural position. 

Probably Coopers number one fan on here, but he can't play the Tierney role. 

 

[er yir macaroon]

12 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol you obviously dont have alot of patience. Clarke has improved us massively. Do you want him sacked and who do you think we could get that is better? 

I find the massive criticism of clarke by some ppl on here as utterly bizarre. Clarkes done well to get us to the play offs. Its disappointing that we couldnt qualify but the world cup is tough tournament for a squad of our ability to qualify for. Clarke should be judged on euro qualification. If he fails to get us to the next euros then we should be pissed off but so far hes done a great job.

Clarke made a complete arse of it yet again. He can’t set out the team for big matches, and yes he does have much better players, and at a better age, than Strachan and McLeish. I’m not advocating a return to these two but I don’t think they’d continually be making the same mistakes. Long ball to the striker is amateur hour. 

[bigfingers]

3 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Clarke made a complete arse of it yet again. He can’t set out the team for big matches, and yes he does have much better players, and at a better age, than Strachan and McLeish. I’m not advocating a return to these two but I don’t think they’d continually be making the same mistakes. Long ball to the striker is amateur hour. 

He struggles to set a team up at Hampden. We should be on the front foot being at home and we rarely are. 

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Scot1 said:

I disagree , I think we have a very good squad and with the right manager we would be a handful for most teams. Don’t really want to go back and forth about Clarke or the squad. We have different opinions, I think Clarke is limited as a coach/manager and the danger is he won’t get the full potential from this group of players, that’s my opinion. Hopefully he will prove me wrong.

We dont have a very good squad. We have an average squad that is slightly better than previous ones. I doubt we have one of the top 13 squads in europe. We rely on championship players and guys who play for hearts and motherwell. The fact is that clarke haters cant name another realistic choice as manager who would do alot better.

Would you sack clarke and replace him?

[mccaughey85]

6 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Clarke made a complete arse of it yet again. He can’t set out the team for big matches, and yes he does have much better players, and at a better age, than Strachan and McLeish. I’m not advocating a return to these two but I don’t think they’d continually be making the same mistakes. Long ball to the striker is amateur hour. 

So you would sack him?

I notice none of the clarke haters will answer that question. 

Clarke has taken us to our first tournament in twenty two years and got us to the world cup play offs. I am completely flabbergasted that ppl are giving him this much criticism over a bad result v a good side.

[Guest Scot1]

3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

We dont have a very good squad. We have an average squad that is slightly better than previous ones. I doubt we have one of the top 13 squads in europe. We rely on championship players and guys who play for hearts and motherwell. The fact is that clarke haters cant name another realistic choice as manager who would do alot better.

Would you sack clarke and replace him?

In your opinion we have an average squad. In my opinion we have the potential to be a very good squad. 
As far as managers go, the only other Scotsman who I’d offer the job to is David Moyes, but obviously he’s not going to leave West Ham. As far as other managers abroad, I don’t know, it’s not something I’m interested in, I’ve no idea who is suitable and available. 

[Guest Scot1]

3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So you would sack him?

I notice none of the clarke haters will answer that question. 

Clarke has taken us to our first tournament in twenty two years and got us to the world cup play offs. I am completely flabbergasted that ppl are giving him this much criticism over a bad result v a good side.

I think you’ll find it was the manner of the defeat rather than simply being beaten. We looked like a team who hadn’t met each other let alone played together. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So you would sack him?

I notice none of the clarke haters will answer that question. 

Clarke has taken us to our first tournament in twenty two years and got us to the world cup play offs. I am completely flabbergasted that ppl are giving him this much criticism over a bad result v a good side.

It's the classic hero to zero attitude. Seen it so many times before with Scotland.

Gary McAllister missed that penalty V England and he was then roundly booed thereafter and quit international football shortly after.

Andy Robertson getting it tight. He has gone from being best left-back in the world to piss-head who should be stripped of captaincy 

Steve Clarke has gone from getting us to our first major tournament in a generation and a World Cup play-off to clueless and should be sacked and replaced by unnamed replacement.

It all stems from pissed off supporters triggered into responses over one game and one random shite performance. People need to take a deep breath and think before reacting. Nobody is denying how shite we were but it happens to better teams than us. Look at Italy missing out on World Cup after winning Euros. Look at England being eliminated by Iceland. And there are other instances.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

In your opinion we have an average squad. In my opinion we have the potential to be a very good squad. 
As far as managers go, the only other Scotsman who I’d offer the job to is David Moyes, but obviously he’s not going to leave West Ham. As far as other managers abroad, I don’t know, it’s not something I’m interested in, I’ve no idea who is suitable and available. 

Very good squads dont have an english championship striker(dykes) as their main man. Same goes with centre backs. Our main centre backs Hanley and cooper have spent most of their careers at english championship level. How can you possibly think thats a very good squad. We have a first choice keeper who wouldnt get a game for a top flight english club. Our first choice right backs are the same as well. In what possible way have we got a very good squad. Its half decent at best and fair enough its a bit better than previous ones but its probably not in the top 13 squads in europe. 

I am not trying to have a go at you but i dont understand the hate clarke is receiving considering hes achieved fairly good results with a limited squad.

We aint getting a better manager, no top managers will take the job and we probably dont pay enough entice someone better anyways. Moyes has shown some interest but theres no way he leaves west ham right now. 

Clarkes a decent manager and the scotland results have shown that. Before wednesdays result we were all singing his praise for getting us a play off opportunity and now we are all turning on him over one bad result.

[er yir macaroon]

13 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It's the classic hero to zero attitude. Seen it so many times before with Scotland.

Gary McAllister missed that penalty V England and he was then roundly booed thereafter and quit international football shortly after.

Andy Robertson getting it tight. He has gone from being best left-back in the world to piss-head who should be stripped of captaincy 

Steve Clarke has gone from getting us to our first major tournament in a generation and a World Cup play-off to clueless and should be sacked and replaced by unnamed replacement.

It all stems from pissed off supporters triggered into responses over one game and one random shite performance. People need to take a deep breath and think before reacting. Nobody is denying how shite we were but it happens to better teams than us. Look at Italy missing out on World Cup after winning Euros. Look at England being eliminated by Iceland. And there are other instances.

It’s not a one off. We had a good performance versus Austria away and beat a second string Denmark. Other than that Clarke has been very poor in the big matches. I’m not saying he should be sacked but he deserves some heat. 

[mccaughey85]

12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It's the classic hero to zero attitude. Seen it so many times before with Scotland.

Gary McAllister missed that penalty V England and he was then roundly booed thereafter and quit international football shortly after.

Andy Robertson getting it tight. He has gone from being best left-back in the world to piss-head who should be stripped of captaincy 

Steve Clarke has gone from getting us to our first major tournament in a generation and a World Cup play-off to clueless and should be sacked and replaced by unnamed replacement.

It all stems from pissed off supporters triggered into responses over one game and one random shite performance. People need to take a deep breath and think before reacting. Nobody is denying how shite we were but it happens to better teams than us. Look at Italy missing out on World Cup after winning Euros. Look at England being eliminated by Iceland. And there are other instances.

Knee jerk reactions. I was just happy that we made the play offs and went to our first tournament in 22 years but as usual ppl want more and more despite us having a very limited squad. I will judge clarke on euro qualification. If he fails to achieve that then he will be gone and rightly so. So far the guys easily satisfied my expectations although it would be nice for a bit more.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

It’s not a one off. We had a good performance versus Austria away and beat a second string Denmark. Other than that Clarke has been very poor in the big matches. I’m not saying he should be sacked but he deserves some heat. 

Czech rep and wednesdays ukraine match are the only big dissappointments. Thats the only games we really let ourselves down big time. Thats not really a big enough reason to give the guy major heat.

[Guest Scot1]

As I said in my previous post I’m not really interested in back and forth posts about Clarke and the squad. I have my opinion, you have yours. I’ve been commenting on Clarke’s reign and I’ve tried to be considered and balanced. I believe that the performance against Ukraine was a result of the culmination of Clarke’s shortcomings, which I’ve tried to highlight during his time as manager. I don’t believe anything I’ve said has been inflammatory or controversial for the sake of it, just my honest opinion. I don’t believe my reaction to Wednesday can be classed as “knee jerk” in anyway. 

[er yir macaroon]

9 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

As I said in my previous post I’m not really interested in back and forth posts about Clarke and the squad. I have my opinion, you have yours. I’ve been commenting on Clarke’s reign and I’ve tried to be considered and balanced. I believe that the performance against Ukraine was a result of the culmination of Clarke’s shortcomings, which I’ve tried to highlight during his time as manager. I don’t believe anything I’ve said has been inflammatory or controversial for the sake of it, just my honest opinion. I don’t believe my reaction to Wednesday can be classed as “knee jerk” in anyway. 

Correct, a bit patronising if you ask me.