More shortages

[Lamia]

Anyone up for a bit of panic buying.....its so 2020! 🤔

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58615784

 

 

[Grim Jim]

Was there not a CO2 shortage a few years ago and some pubs were struggling to get deliveries of some beers?

[hampden_loon2878]

And the SG go hostile on gas production, political suicide 

[chaff]

wait until christmas it's going to be a complete shitshow 🍿

[Alibi]

20 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

And the SG go hostile on gas production, political suicide 

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

47 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

her bigger picture is a socialist dystopia ; which she appears to be doing pretty well at

[ThistleWhistle]

55 minutes ago, Alibi said:

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

Essentially it's like Canute getting his Crocs wet and ending up going for a paddle unless China buy in. 

The timing of the Aussie nuclear sub deal with the UK/US is so bizarre it seems either  completely incompetent or purposefully provocative.      

Edited September 21, 2021 by ThistleWhistle

[hampden_loon2878]

2 hours ago, Alibi said:

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

As i have already said on another thread, carbon capture could be a huge industry for Scotland and the world for that matter, we have huge capacity to  hold hydrocarbons under the North sea, iceland have just created the biggest co2 extraction unit in the world and that technology will be upscaled going forward. Looking ahead, scotland could charge other countries to store hydrocarbons, countries could offset their emissions by paying to scotland or any other country with the capacity to shove the carbon under the sea bed. @aaid surely ian and co. will be looking at this? 

[scotlad]

5 hours ago, Alibi said:

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

That's pretty much how I see it too.  Like the climate change issue, unless the major contributors buy into it we're just pishing in the wind (no renewable energy pun intended, btw).

[phart]

The ORCA facility is the largest carbon capure in the world and captures 4000 tonnes of carbon a year and costs a relative fortune, we pump out 31,500,000,000 tonnes.

There's a lot of scaling up to do. Or we need almost 8 million of them to just break even. Can we improve efficiency by 8 million percent in 19 years. I have no idea.

I posted elsewhere what China is doing regarding commitments to 2030. So I won't reiterate it but it is moving towards green quite signiifantly while using hydrocrabons to power that move. Per Capita they aren't even top 10 for emissions and are the manafacturing base of the world at the same time.

My own view is nothing will get done till we suddenly have tens of millions of people migrating due to climate change. Cause people will always have excuses for us not doing something about it. Even then folk will challenge the science or buy into cure-alls due to what they've read on facebook etc. The pandemic has shown that despite experts warning of spillover events for decades nothing was done till it was "too late" and then we had a mass rush to try and sort it, and all the associated distrust in institutions causing problems with the solutions by posed by institutions.

 

[ThistleWhistle]

14 minutes ago, phart said:

The ORCA facility is the largest carbon capure in the world and captures 4000 tonnes of carbon a year and costs a relative fortune, we pump out 31,500,000,000 tonnes.

There's a lot of scaling up to do. Or we need almost 8 million of them to just break even. Can we improve efficiency by 8 million percent in 19 years. I have no idea.

I posted elsewhere what China is doing regarding commitments to 2030. So I won't reiterate it but it is moving towards green quite signiifantly while using hydrocrabons to power that move. Per Capita they aren't even top 10 for emissions and are the manafacturing base of the world at the same time.

My own view is nothing will get done till we suddenly have tens of millions of people migrating due to climate change. Cause people will always have excuses for us not doing something about it. Even then folk will challenge the science or buy into cure-alls due to what they've read on facebook etc. The pandemic has shown that despite experts warning of spillover events for decades nothing was done till it was "too late" and then we had a mass rush to try and sort it, and all the associated distrust in institutions causing problems with the solutions by posed by institutions.

 

China's commitment is fair enough but they've promised that their peak emissions will  be 2030 so it's still likely growing for another decade yet before getting down to net zero by 2060.  

Wiki  has China in 5th per head of population behind US, Russia, Iran and Japan but that might be out of date - However, essentially we would need those five getting along long term and working together toward a common goal that's going to take decades to have a real impact which at the moment seems miles off being achievable.

Think we're pissing in the wind too really and we're more likely to save the planet by blowing each other up than through some global  collaboration.         

[phart]

27 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

China's commitment is fair enough but they've promised that their peak emissions will  be 2030 so it's still likely growing for another decade yet before getting down to net zero by 2060.  

Wiki  has China in 5th per head of population behind US, Russia, Iran and Japan but that might be out of date - However, essentially we would need those five getting along long term and working together toward a common goal that's going to take decades to have a real impact which at the moment seems miles off being achievable.

Think we're pissing in the wind too really and we're more likely to save the planet by blowing each other up than through some global  collaboration.         

They invest the third highest amount by GDP (Chile and SA the most) into green technologies as well. They've spent a fortune on thousands of mile long electricity cables from wind and solar plants to transport energy from where it is produced to where it needs to be, Quadrupled their energy storage capacity via batteries to store energy in the last few years etc.

It's hardly ideal but the situation is a lot more nuanced than "but china, therefore we do nothing" or "lets just pull it out the air problem solved". China's plan short-term is going to cause a lot more emissions but long-term they're actually doing a shit tonne of R&D(for example funding research into energy storage which is the main problem with regards to making green energy economically viable), spending 1% of GDP oin the green sector and basically building a lot of green infrastructure.

It's all pointless though it's not enough. We're headed to climate catastrophy for hundreds of millions of people at an ironically glacial pace

[thplinth]

10 hours ago, Alibi said:

It seems to me that any oil and gas from our resources are a mere drop in the ocean compared to the output of the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia.  If Scotland were to cease production entirely, all that would happen is that other nations would increase their production to make up any drop in supply.  Sturgeon is of course going to jump on the virtue signalling bandwagon because she generally fails to see the bigger picture.  Until the major world producers cut their own output, whatever we do is going to make very little difference, so why harm Scotland's economy under these circumstances?

It is the ultimate in futile gesture politics to economically self immolate ourselves.

The oil and gas industry is too male, too white and too successful. Of course they hate you. 

[Lamia]

15 hours ago, phart said:

 

My own view is nothing will get done till we suddenly have tens of millions of people migrating due to climate change. Cause people will always have excuses for us not doing something about it. Even then folk will challenge the science or buy into cure-alls due to what they've read on facebook etc. The pandemic has shown that despite experts warning of spillover events for decades nothing was done till it was "too late" and then we had a mass rush to try and sort it, and all the associated distrust in institutions causing problems with the solutions by posed by institutions.

 

The human race likes to think it is more intelligent than all other species but fundamentally it really isn't!

[chaff]

Are these food shortages and gas prices soaring happening in Europe?

[thplinth]

This is fuck all to do with covid and everything to do with BREXIT.

[phart]

1 hour ago, chaff said:

Are these food shortages and gas prices soaring happening in Europe?

Gas price is, food isn't.

Surging gas and electricity costs are forcing European governments to discuss billions of euros in aid for households and stricken suppliers, as concern mounts over a deepening winter energy crisis.

EU energy ministers will meet this week to discuss national responses to a surge in wholesale gas prices, amid concern that they will jeopardise Europe’s post-pandemic economic recovery and undermine Brussels’ plans for ambitious but costly green reforms.

Italy is expected this week to unveil a multibillion-euro support package for households. A source at the Italian finance ministry with direct knowledge said “a plausible amount to tackle the issue [of soaring energy costs] could reach up to €4.5bn”.

Rome has already spent €1bn on intervening directly in the energy market to cut consumer prices. Italy covers more than two-thirds of its energy needs with imports.

Italy’s plans follow Spain’s decision last week to raid what it says are energy companies’ excess profits and provide tax breaks to consumers.

Companies are expected to mount a legal challenge to the move, which has driven down share prices.

https://www.ft.com/content/0fba039b-9e1a-413f-aa3a-7478d02ef3a5

Edited September 23, 2021 by phart

[phart]

On 9/22/2021 at 7:42 AM, Lamia said:

The human race likes to think it is more intelligent than all other species but fundamentally it really isn't!

Here's the discourse from some quarters in America

[thplinth]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:43 PM, Lamia said:

Anyone up for a bit of panic buying.....its so 2020! 🤔

It is not panic buying causing it, it is down to labour shortages. I guess all those Polish HGV drivers fucked off after BREXIT.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58654725

But the panic buying will soon kick in once folk realize there are shortages. Vicious cycle.

I think this also explains why in some areas at least it is so difficult to see a GP.

I don't think we are really being told the extent of this problem. Britain was highly reliant on EU labour it looks like (no surprise really)

There are no shortages like this in the EU although fuel prices are rising for everyone I think. This is the UK.

[thplinth]

Again anecdotal but I tried to get a local joiner to do some work a few months back and they all knocked me back as they were so busy.

At the time I thought it was down to folk going DIY mad during lockdown but I wonder if they are in such high demand due to a significant contraction in their numbers post BREXIT.

I think this could be the first real tangible sign for people of problems starting to really kick in now due to BREXIT. They will try to spin it into blaming covid I am sure.

edit: Shortage of CO2... ironic.😀

Edited September 23, 2021 by thplinth

[phart]

We lost access to a huge labour market.

I was reading some stuff about the truck drivers and it seems supermarkets (as they do) had been squeezing labour prices down to such an extent that there are other jobs that are a lot less hassle and have relatively the same pay now. You used to get something like 200% more than other comparative jobs, and it is now down to something like 113%. So there's people leaving the industry in droves, (see the Great resignation) and also us casting ourselves adrift from a huge source of workers.

Here's an example of how working conditions have changed

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/food-shortages-lorry-driver-supermarkets-b1908769.html

info on yhe median pay difference

https://www.ft.com/content/5f832d86-827e-4596-999d-e0618364dbe3

Edited September 23, 2021 by phart

[ThistleWhistle]

Interesting article on the gas situation:

Gas price crisis: is Brexit, Russia or Covid-19 to blame? - New Statesman

Is Brexit to blame?

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove promised lower fuel bills for households once Britain left the EU. Gas prices in Europe are also at record highs, but countries in the EU’s internal energy market trade efficiently with each other using linked auctions that balance prices across the bloc. The UK, having decoupled its auctions from Europe, could in theory get cheaper energy than anywhere else – if energy was really cheap. But it isn’t, so the UK is more exposed to high prices

[phart]

10 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Interesting article on the gas situation:

Gas price crisis: is Brexit, Russia or Covid-19 to blame? - New Statesman

Is Brexit to blame?

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove promised lower fuel bills for households once Britain left the EU. Gas prices in Europe are also at record highs, but countries in the EU’s internal energy market trade efficiently with each other using linked auctions that balance prices across the bloc. The UK, having decoupled its auctions from Europe, could in theory get cheaper energy than anywhere else – if energy was really cheap. But it isn’t, so the UK is more exposed to high prices

As usual it's a lot more complex than we thought!

[ThistleWhistle]

1 minute ago, phart said:

We lost access to a huge labour market.

I was reading some stuff about the truck drivers and it seems supermarkets (as they do) had been squeezing labour prices down to such an extent that there are other jobs that are a lot less hassle and have relatively the same pay now. You used to get something like 200% more than other comparative jobs, and it is now down to something like 113%. So there's people leaving the industry in droves, (see the Great resignation) and also us casting ourselves adrift from a huge source of workers.

Here's an example of how working conditions have changed

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/food-shortages-lorry-driver-supermarkets-b1908769.html

My wife's two nieces in India and Nepal work as nurses and there's agencies set-up there trying to head hunt loads of them.  The NHS/Government are offering wild stuff like paying flights; first month rent; settling in expenses; a month's wage in advance; visas all paid; NHS charge waived/forgotten about etc.  Starting salaries have to be wild too in  comparison to previously to qualify for visas but they're still going elsewhere like Canada because it's easier to get family members over.  

Classic supply and demand type stuff.  

[wee-toon-red]

2 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

My wife's two nieces in India and Nepal work as nurses and there's agencies set-up there trying to head hunt loads of them.  The NHS/Government are offering wild stuff like paying flights; first month rent; settling in expenses; a month's wage in advance; visas all paid; NHS charge waived/forgotten about etc.  Starting salaries have to be wild too in  comparison to previously to qualify for visas but they're still going elsewhere like Canada because it's easier to get family members over.  

Classic supply and demand type stuff.  

Canada may also be more appealing since, in 30 years' time, their kids and grandkids are less likely to be herded up, packed onto planes and sent "back" to India and Nepal.

Edited September 23, 2021 by wee-toon-red