Scottish players in action 21/22

[Caledonian Craig]

9 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Which lesser teams? Part of the B team we put on the pitch in Slovakia? 

Teams such as Cyprus, Israel (twice), Faroe Islands and Kazakhstan for a start. All ranked below us and sides we are always expected to beat.

Turnbull honking? Yes he maybe but I want to see him given the chance to show that. McBurnie has had those chances and lots more yet still people want him given more chances. That is what pisses me off. It may rub off and comes across as angst towards the guy but it is this ramming of him down my throat by fans as if he is worthy of more chances. I have seen all i need to see. We have done a lot better without him in the squad in any case. Results have improved, we have scored more goals across the pitch and our seeding has improved. Onwards and upwards and our squad is a place for talent andtried and trusted players who have shown their worth at international level or seeking that chance. That is not McBurnie.

[thesaint]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Teams such as Cyprus, Israel (twice), Faroe Islands and Kazakhstan for a start. All ranked below us and sides we are always expected to beat.

Turnbull honking? Yes he maybe but I want to see him given the chance to show that. McBurnie has had those chances and lots more yet still people want him given more chances. That is what pisses me off. It may rub off and comes across as angst towards the guy but it is this ramming of him down my throat by fans as if he is worthy of more chances. I have seen all i need to see. We have done a lot better without him in the squad in any case. Results have improved, we have scored more goals across the pitch and our seeding has improved. Onwards and upwards and our squad is a place for talent andtried and trusted players who have shown their worth at international level or seeking that chance. That is not McBurnie.

I don't know what forum you are looking at but it can't be the one i'm looking at. A constant ramming down your throat from fans asking for McBurnie to be included. Really?.The whole point of the post was about the abuse given to him on this forum and the constant view that he should not play for us again. 

[Diamond Scot]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Teams such as Cyprus, Israel (twice), Faroe Islands and Kazakhstan for a start. All ranked below us and sides we are always expected to beat.

Turnbull honking? Yes he maybe but I want to see him given the chance to show that. McBurnie has had those chances and lots more yet still people want him given more chances. That is what pisses me off. It may rub off and comes across as angst towards the guy but it is this ramming of him down my throat by fans as if he is worthy of more chances. I have seen all i need to see. We have done a lot better without him in the squad in any case. Results have improved, we have scored more goals across the pitch and our seeding has improved. Onwards and upwards and our squad is a place for talent andtried and trusted players who have shown their worth at international level or seeking that chance. That is not McBurnie.

McBurnie is 26. He got the vast majority of his caps for us between the ages of 21 and 24. 

Do you accept that is young for an international player?

Do you accept that players reguarly get better with age and experience?

Is it your position that nowmatter what McBurnie does in his club career from now or, regardless of form etc that he should never get another call up.

To the extent that you would rather player a midfielder out of position, who has never shown any form anywhere near the level of McBurnies club form, is currently having a horrible season and isnt starting any games for his club side. Is that really your argument?

On the point about him playing against lesser teams. I think you may be being selective about the facts. He has has played Isreal 4 times but came off the bench on 3 off these occasions I believe, getting 16 mins, 29 mins and 14 mins. The only game he started he got 73 mins and it was the semi final we won on pens against them. He got 17 mins against Faroe Islands and 6 mins against Hungary and 28 mins against Cyprus. He also played 61 mins away to Kazakstan.

So really of the games against teams you would expect us to beat its really only Isreal im the semi and the awful Kazakstan game where you could say he had a fair crack of the whip. Thats not me saying his record is good. Clearly its not but theres more to it than saying he has had 17 caps and no goals. He has only started 7 times for Scotland.

Costa Rica, Mexico, Portugal, Russia and Slovakia included so all of this should be taken into consideration. Plus he has his the woodwork on at least 3 occasions that I remember so sometimes its fine margins.

The way I see it is that Adams is our clear number 1. Dykes clear number 2. After that there is very little difference between Stewart, Shankland, Nisbet and McBurnie. You could make an argument for any of them to be in the squad. 

[ceudmilefailte]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Teams such as Cyprus, Israel (twice), Faroe Islands and Kazakhstan for a start. All ranked below us and sides we are always expected to beat.

 

Forgot about the 15 minutes against the Faroe Islands and his substitute appearence against against Cyprus. Still trying to forget about the game in Kazakhstan.

On checking I thought he ha played more minutes than he has, on average 45 minutes a game with the majority in friendlies against Costa Rica, Mexico, Peru and Portugal, that game in Kazakhstan all under McLeish and his first start for Clarke against Russia.

There might be a chance that a player with a goal in a friendly or another with a goal against San Marino are better options but there is no way they are better players, at least on paper.

Anyway neither of us are picking the squad, someone with first hand experience of their abilities is.

 

[ceudmilefailte]

46 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

McBurnie is 26. He got the vast majority of his caps for us between the ages of 21 and 24. 

Do you accept that is young for an international player?

Do you accept that players reguarly get better with age and experience?

Is it your position that nowmatter what McBurnie does in his club career from now or, regardless of form etc that he should never get another call up.

To the extent that you would rather player a midfielder out of position, who has never shown any form anywhere near the level of McBurnies club form, is currently having a horrible season and isnt starting any games for his club side. Is that really your argument?

On the point about him playing against lesser teams. I think you may be being selective about the facts. He has has played Isreal 4 times but came off the bench on 3 off these occasions I believe, getting 16 mins, 29 mins and 14 mins. The only game he started he got 73 mins and it was the semi final we won on pens against them. He got 17 mins against Faroe Islands and 6 mins against Hungary and 28 mins against Cyprus. He also played 61 mins away to Kazakstan.

So really of the games against teams you would expect us to beat its really only Isreal im the semi and the awful Kazakstan game where you could say he had a fair crack of the whip. Thats not me saying his record is good. Clearly its not but theres more to it than saying he has had 17 caps and no goals. He has only started 7 times for Scotland.

Costa Rica, Mexico, Portugal, Russia and Slovakia included so all of this should be taken into consideration. Plus he has his the woodwork on at least 3 occasions that I remember so sometimes its fine margins.

The way I see it is that Adams is our clear number 1. Dykes clear number 2. After that there is very little difference between Stewart, Shankland, Nisbet and McBurnie. You could make an argument for any of them to be in the squad. 

Took me 45 minutes longer to write most of that before you acuse me of  plagiary

[scotlad]

On 2/12/2023 at 12:29 PM, Diamond Scot said:

Stewart I would agree with. He was reguarly scoring goals at an increasingly higher level. Ie League 1 to Championship.

Nisbet played lower league and then moved to Hibs where he scored 18 in his 1st season, 9 in his second and I believe he is currently on 8. He has had injuries but thats not an upward direction. He has just turned down a move to the league where McBurnie and Stewart are playing so it would have been interesting to compare. 

Club form of course isnt everything as you say. Dkyes has not been good in the Championship but continues to perform for us.

 

 

58 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

McBurnie is 26. He got the vast majority of his caps for us between the ages of 21 and 24. 

Do you accept that is young for an international player?

Do you accept that players reguarly get better with age and experience?

Is it your position that nowmatter what McBurnie does in his club career from now or, regardless of form etc that he should never get another call up.

To the extent that you would rather player a midfielder out of position, who has never shown any form anywhere near the level of McBurnies club form, is currently having a horrible season and isnt starting any games for his club side. Is that really your argument?

On the point about him playing against lesser teams. I think you may be being selective about the facts. He has has played Isreal 4 times but came off the bench on 3 off these occasions I believe, getting 16 mins, 29 mins and 14 mins. The only game he started he got 73 mins and it was the semi final we won on pens against them. He got 17 mins against Faroe Islands and 6 mins against Hungary and 28 mins against Cyprus. He also played 61 mins away to Kazakstan.

So really of the games against teams you would expect us to beat its really only Isreal im the semi and the awful Kazakstan game where you could say he had a fair crack of the whip. Thats not me saying his record is good. Clearly its not but theres more to it than saying he has had 17 caps and no goals. He has only started 7 times for Scotland.

Costa Rica, Mexico, Portugal, Russia and Slovakia included so all of this should be taken into consideration. Plus he has his the woodwork on at least 3 occasions that I remember so sometimes its fine margins.

The way I see it is that Adams is our clear number 1. Dykes clear number 2. After that there is very little difference between Stewart, Shankland, Nisbet and McBurnie. You could make an argument for any of them to be in the squad. 

Two very good posts which, for me, sum the situation up well, but you can't reason people out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.  The way McBurnie is talked about by some posters on here verges on the hysterical. 

Ideally the likes of McBurnie along with Oliver Burke, Lawrence Shankland, Ross Stewart and Kevin Nisbet wouldn't be serious contenders for Scotland (or even Che Adams, who struggles to hold down a place in a terrible Southampton team) but the idea that journeymen like Burke and Shankland, who have 17 caps and 2 goals between them, are still worthy of a place in the squad but McBurnie shouldn't even be considered is ludicrous. 

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, scotlad said:

 

Two very good posts which, for me, sum the situation up well, but you can't reason people out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.  The way McBurnie is talked about by some posters on here verges on the hysterical. 

Ideally the likes of McBurnie along with Oliver Burke, Lawrence Shankland, Ross Stewart and Kevin Nisbet wouldn't be serious contenders for Scotland (or even Che Adams, who struggles to hold down a place in a terrible Southampton team) but the idea that journeymen like Burke and Shankland, who have 17 caps and 2 goals between them, are still worthy of a place in the squad but McBurnie shouldn't even be considered is ludicrous. 

McBurnie has 16 caps and zero goals all to himself. I'm not saying he should never play for us again, but Shankland, Stewart and Nisbet deserve to get some more chances to show us if they can be any better than McBuirnie.

[scotlad]

17 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

McBurnie has 16 caps and zero goals all to himself. I'm not saying he should never play for us again, but Shankland, Stewart and Nisbet deserve to get some more chances to show us if they can be any better than McBuirnie.

Absolutely, I'm not saying they shouldn't.  But neither should McBurnie be discarded completely if he is fit and on form (unless somehow a glut of strikers emerge who show they can score regularly at a higher level).

[thesaint]

4 hours ago, scotlad said:

 

Two very good posts which, for me, sum the situation up well, but you can't reason people out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into.  The way McBurnie is talked about by some posters on here verges on the hysterical. 

Ideally the likes of McBurnie along with Oliver Burke, Lawrence Shankland, Ross Stewart and Kevin Nisbet wouldn't be serious contenders for Scotland (or even Che Adams, who struggles to hold down a place in a terrible Southampton team) but the idea that journeymen like Burke and Shankland, who have 17 caps and 2 goals between them, are still worthy of a place in the squad but McBurnie shouldn't even be considered is ludicrous. 

Exactly. Really don't get this hatred of McBurnie. Ok you think he hasn't performed for us yet but for f.. ks sake do you not think he want's to do well. Ollie McBurnie has shown more commitment to Scotland than plenty others. Even when at school in Yorkshire he used to wear a Scotland shirt. He has played at all levels for us and always turned up despite the abuse he was getting. If he is scoring goals for Sheffield. Utd he should without doubt come into the equation regarding the Scotland squad. I for one would welcome him back and really hope he can knock in a goal or two and get it right up the McBurnie haters. 

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

very little difference between Stewart, Shankland, Nisbet and McBurnie. You could make an argument for any of them to be in the squad. 

Big differences between him and Nisbet and Shankland and even Burke all of whom have scored for Scotland in far fewer games for Scotland than him and lest we forget Nisbet's goal came against Netherlands. And Stewart has not had the swathe of chances McBurnie has had so merits the chance before him plus has a far better career strike rate.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Caledonian Craig

[Diamond Scot]

58 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Big differences between him and Nisbet and Shankland and even Burke all of whom have scored for Scotland in far fewer games for Scotland than him and lest we forget Nisbet's goal came against Netherlands. And Stewart has not had the swathe of chances McBurnie has had so merits the chance before him plus has a far better career strike rate.

So because Burke has scored an international goal he should be considered before McBurnie now even though his club form is nowhere near as good?

Out of all the players mentioned. Who has played at the highest level? Who has or is scoring at the higher level? 

There are loads of strikers with a better strike rate scoring at lower league level. Should they be given a scotland call up before McBurnie now aswell?

As ive stated above. McBurnies Scotland caps can be interpretated differently if looking at the facts. Also when taking his age and how the rest of the team were performing at the time.

Heres a question for you. Under what circumstances would you deem McBurnie worthy of a call up to the squad?

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Big differences between him and Nisbet and Shankland and even Burke all of whom have scored for Scotland in far fewer games for Scotland than him and lest we forget Nisbet's goal came against Netherlands. And Stewart has not had the swathe of chances McBurnie has had so merits the chance before him plus has a far better career strike rate. 

Burke? Think you're pushing it a bit there. 🙄

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Big differences between him and Nisbet and Shankland and even Burke all of whom have scored for Scotland in far fewer games for Scotland than him and lest we forget Nisbet's goal came against Netherlands. And Stewart has not had the swathe of chances McBurnie has had so merits the chance before him plus has a far better career strike rate.

I hadnt actually bothered checking before replying but Nisbet has 10 caps and 1 goal (against Netherlands). Shankland has 4 caps and 1 goal (against San Marino).

So neither exactly have outstanding stats either. I could almost get on board with part of your position if we had a David Healy type who played at a lower level but banged in the goals for Scotland but neither Nisbet or Shankland have done that to date. So you are basing your entire argument on their inclusion over McBurnies on 1 goal for Nisbet in a friendly against Netherlands and one goal for Shankland at home against the worst team in world football.

If one of McBurnies attempts that hit the woodwork had went in would you then be ok with his inclusion?

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I hadnt actually bothered checking before replying but Nisbet has 10 caps and 1 goal (against Netherlands). Shankland has 4 caps and 1 goal (against San Marino).

So neither exactly have outstanding stats either. I could almost get on board with part of your position if we had a David Healy type who played at a lower level but banged in the goals for Scotland but neither Nisbet or Shankland have done that to date. So you are basing your entire argument on their inclusion over McBurnies on 1 goal for Nisbet in a friendly against Netherlands and one goal for Shankland at home against the worst team in world football.

If one of McBurnies attempts that hit the woodwork had went in would you then be ok with his inclusion?

Look we will not agree here.

You and others would like to see a striker already capped 16 times without scoring given more chances whereas I and others have seen enough and feel it is time to stop feeding failures (at international level) with more call-ups and potentially caps.

You seem to championing the cause of McBurnie partly because he once played in the EPL and partly because he is in a run of goals. Well nobody from the EPL are interested in him just now and he was getting called-up in similar veins of form in his Swansea days but he still never scored for us.

As I said we will agree to disagree on this. I am sure there are plenty players I would like to see called up that others here would disagree with. C'est la vie. It is called opinions.

[romanticscot]

Here are my strikers in order of preference and I would only have four in my squad.

1. Adams

2. Dykes

3. Stewart

4. Shankland

5. Nisbet

6. McBurnie

Ideally, I would not have Shankland and Nisbet in the same squad as I find them too similar. 

With Dykes and Stewart out, I would have Nisbet and McBurnie in my squad until there were better options.  I don't want to bring a youngster in to have them out for the next 18 months.  If there were a 18-21 starlet, I would be tempted to abandon my policy, but I would be careful not to put too much expectations on them.  

Actually, now I say this, I would only bring three strikers in this squad and bring in Ryan Gauld.  MLS just finished their pre-season, and he will have had 3/4 games of regular season. If he can't get in this squad, he never will. Controversial I am sure, I would have Gauld in my squad over Gilmour right now. 

 

[csinclair]

Porteous error in the first few minutes almost leads to a Burnley goal but has looked solid the rest of the half. His forward ball lead to Watford’s opener after the Burnley keeper made an absolute hash of coming for it

Edited February 14, 2023 by csinclair

[ceudmilefailte]

Honestly still can't see why anyone would think a 27 year old like Shankland should be close to the squad.

Think people are just looking at his goals scored stats and are taking nothing else into  consideration.

[GHfaeGTA]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Honestly still can't see why anyone would think a 27 year old like Shankland should be close to the squad.

Think people are just looking at his goals scored stats and are taking nothing else into  consideration.

If all strikers were fit I would agree but looks like both Stewart and Dykes will miss the games next month. Who would you name in the squad alongside Adams if not Shankland ? 

[ceudmilefailte]

13 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

If all strikers were fit I would agree but looks like both Stewart and Dykes will miss the games next month. Who would you name in the squad alongside Adams if not Shankland ? 

Nisbet and McBurnie are streets ahead I'm my opinion and to be honest I would prefer to see Ryan Christie or Lewis Ferguson out of position instead of Shankland. 

I just don't see what he offers other than his scoring stats. I know that's his job but at any other level than the SPL players have to do much more. 

[er yir macaroon]

13 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I hadnt actually bothered checking before replying but Nisbet has 10 caps and 1 goal (against Netherlands). Shankland has 4 caps and 1 goal (against San Marino).

Nisbet has one goal in 167 minutes. Shankland has one in 184 minutes. 

[ProudScot]

Comical that anyone can suggest McBurnie as even a 4th/5th choice striker.

in his last 4 seasons he has scored;

10 goals (at level 2)

0 goals (at level 2)

1 goal (at level 1)

6 goals (at level 1)

He also has 4 years worth of regular caps for Scotland with 0 goals, 0 goal involvements & multiple poor performances mixed in.

Also more importantly than stats, when you watch him you see how poor his touch & link up play is. he’s a very poor footballer who also can’t score goals or set up goals. Passing and even controlling the ball are not things he is good at.

Are folk blinkered because a team made a gigantic howler and paid £20M for him in the bizarre English market so his name keeps cropping up. He’s probably worth about £500,000 in reality & is probably a worse option for Scotland than someone like Bruce Anderson which says it all really.

He’s also turning 27 this year, so his chances of miraculously becoming not shite are absolute zip.

[Orraloon]

13 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Honestly still can't see why anyone would think a 27 year old like Shankland should be close to the squad.

Think people are just looking at his goals scored stats and are taking nothing else into  consideration.

McBurnie is 26. I'm not sure what your point is with this one?

[thesaint]

3 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Comical that anyone can suggest McBurnie as even a 4th/5th choice striker.

in his last 4 seasons he has scored;

10 goals (at level 2)

0 goals (at level 2)

1 goal (at level 1)

6 goals (at level 1)

He also has 4 years worth of regular caps for Scotland with 0 goals, 0 goal involvements & multiple poor performances mixed in.

Also more importantly than stats, when you watch him you see how poor his touch & link up play is. he’s a very poor footballer who also can’t score goals or set up goals. Passing and even controlling the ball are not things he is good at.

Are folk blinkered because a team made a gigantic howler and paid £20M for him in the bizarre English market so his name keeps cropping up. He’s probably worth about £500,000 in reality & is probably a worse option for Scotland than someone like Bruce Anderson which says it all really.

He’s also turning 27 this year, so his chances of miraculously becoming not shite are absolute zip.

Would suggest that you are the one that is blinkered regarding McBurnie. If he keeps scoring for Sheffield Utd then he desrves a place in the squad. Anybody that is scoring goals at a decent level should be considered. Can't see any reason why McBurnie shouldn't. 

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

Would suggest that you are the one that is blinkered regarding McBurnie. If he keeps scoring for Sheffield Utd then he desrves a place in the squad. Anybody that is scoring goals at a decent level should be considered. Can't see any reason why McBurnie shouldn't. 

Scoring 11 goals in three years playing at mainly championship level for Sheffield United doesn’t change the fact he’s miles off the quality for an international footballer 

Edited February 15, 2023 by ProudScot

[thesaint]

50 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Scoring 11 goals in three years playing at mainly championship level for Sheffield United doesn’t change the fact he’s miles off the quality for an international footballer 

I did say if he keeps scoring he should be considered. As for the championship level i would hardly say Shankland and Nisbet are doing it at a better level and Dykes and Brown are hardly setting the world on fire at champlionship level. To basically say that McBurnie should never play for us again is just ridiculous.