Coronavirus

[Lamia]

On 7/4/2021 at 12:19 PM, Hercules Rockefeller said:

"Selecting Viruses for the Seasonal Influenza Vaccine | CDC" https://www.cdc.gov/flu/prevent/vaccine-selection.htm

 

 

Have you really just sent me a link about the Flu vaccine?

And as I said even if it was 6 months it just proves my point - how many died between Sept 2020 and March 2021 - and that isn't even allowing time to get it to people.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Lamia

[Lamia]

39 minutes ago, Freeedom said:

It's not just the tories, our rates are higher than Englands and it's because the Scottish government have done nothing to abate the spread.

The SNP Government are actually worse because at least the UK Government have never pretended and Nicola Sturgeon can't just be honest.

[Scotty CTA]

About 99.2% of recent COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. involved unvaccinated people, a "tragic" situation that could easily be remedied, Dr. Anthony Fauci said Sunday.

More than 157 million Americans have been fully vaccinated – 47.8% of the population, according to the CDC.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

2 hours ago, Lamia said:

Have you really just sent me a link about the Flu vaccine?

And as I said even if it was 6 months it just proves my point - how many died between Sept 2020 and March 2021 - and that isn't even allowing time to get it to people.

Yes - that's the typical time to adapt an annual vaccine to new virus strains. Funnily enough there isn't decades of covid-19 research available for annual vaccine amendment.

[phart]

It's only typical of the flu Antigenic Drift though.

Also they've got it wrong a lot, 2012 H3N2 was really bad and it was 39% effective and it was only 19% effective in 2014.

"Americans got little benefit from last season's flu shot — the vaccine was only about 19 percent effective, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

https://www.livescience.com/51341-here-s-what-went-wrong-with-last-year-s-flu-vaccine.html

There's no typical times for virus strains cause that is a huge variable taxonomy. HIV for instance has no vaccine at all let along a turn around time in months.

incidentally coronaviruses have been around for centuries. So either you can adapt to it using knowledge or it's a novel thing that then you can't use previous understanding. So you can't argue for both things at the same time and be coherent.

Edited July 5, 2021 by phart

[chaff]

2nd vaccine for chaff today 13.20 at the ally mccoist centre in east kilbride. taking the rest of the day off work to chew paracetmol.

[Lamia]

16 hours ago, Hercules Rockefeller said:

Yes - that's the typical time to adapt an annual vaccine to new virus strains. Funnily enough there isn't decades of covid-19 research available for annual vaccine amendment.

So you actually don't know how long it will take. 

My point stands that 6 months plus is a lot of potential illness and death.

[phart]

I don't think opening up is a doomsday scenario.

Most people are going to get the coronavirus SARS-Covid-19 multiple times in their lifetime now. It'll become endemic.

Fully opening up as cases peak with a new variant with a higher R0 before the vaccination programme is complete just seems daft though, a bit more patience would have been sensible imo. A final push to lower cases(and i mean final) as we finished off vaccinations(we're not even at 50% of the population fully innoculated yet, as we didn't reach 50% 3 weeks ago yet).

Time will tell.

[Squirrelhumper]

2 hours ago, phart said:

I don't think opening up is a doomsday scenario.

Most people are going to get the coronavirus SARS-Covid-19 multiple times in their lifetime now. It'll become endemic.

Fully opening up as cases peak with a new variant with a higher R0 before the vaccination programme is complete just seems daft though, a bit more patience would have been sensible imo. A final push to lower cases(and i mean final) as we finished off vaccinations(we're not even at 50% of the population fully innoculated yet, as we didn't reach 50% 3 weeks ago yet).

Time will tell.

Agreed, i can see from it from both sides. 

Whilst i don't agree with government removing the need for masks for example on public transport etc, i also don't agree with the ultra cautious folk who are getting their knickers in a twist about high case numbers with low hospital admissions. We will have cases of this for the rest of our lifetimes, whether we should have waited until the full adult population had the chance to have a second vaccine (plenty won't take it), remains to be seen. 

One of the main reasons why i think Scotland is getting hammered with cases just now, is that we had less cases/stricter lockdowns throughout this compared to elsewhere. Now this indian variant is out and spreading easier, then there is more people prone to getting it here compared to say England. 

People are rightly or wrongly getting fed up with this now and it all seems a bit lopsided when you see what you can/can't do. I've mates who've not been able to open their business since March. The governments grants don't even hit the sides. I went to my grans funeral with 20 folk there, couldn't even cuddle my dad & aunt, yet weeks later there are fan zones for the football etc. 

One thing that is undeniable is that the full UK approach to this, the UK Gov and the Scottish Gov has been shambolic from outset, with a lot of it making no sense whatsover. 

My bro is getting married next week, cant have a top table as too many households, can;t have a first dance with anyone other than bride, groom & parents, can't have confetti, can't have a live band, can't dance, has to finish early, the list is endless yet a matter of days later all of that will be allowed and more. 

It's a shame there isn't any competent opposition in Scotland or UK as the incumbent bunch are beyond incompetent. Sturgeon et al get an easy ride as they have the Indy vote but as a Govenment they have had fuck up after fuck up. 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Squirrelhumper

[kumnio]

Just had my second AZ jag this morning. 

Caird Hall was split into two sections, I’d say 1/3rd was for over 40s getting the AZ, and 2/3rds was for under 40s getting Pfizer. AZ was definitely the busier section, even allowing for the different capacities, I couldn’t have any serious guesstimate into numbers, but it was very under utilised compared to 8 weeks ago when I got my first. 
 

[ThistleWhistle]

42 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Agreed, i can see from it from both sides. 

Whilst i don't agree with government removing the need for masks for example on public transport etc, i also don't agree with the ultra cautious folk who are getting their knickers in a twist about high case numbers with low hospital admissions. We will have cases of this for the rest of our lifetimes, whether we should have waited until the full adult population had the chance to have a second vaccine (plenty won't take it), remains to be seen. 

One of the main reasons why i think Scotland is getting hammered with cases just now, is that we had less cases/stricter lockdowns throughout this compared to elsewhere. Now this indian variant is out and spreading easier, then there is more people prone to getting it here compared to say England. 

People are rightly or wrongly getting fed up with this now and it all seems a bit lopsided when you see what you can/can't do. I've mates who've not been able to open their business since March. The governments grants don't even hit the sides. I went to my grans funeral with 20 folk there, couldn't even cuddle my dad & aunt, yet weeks later there are fan zones for the football etc. 

One thing that is undeniable is that the full UK approach to this, the UK Gov and the Scottish Gov has been shambolic from outset, with a lot of it making no sense whatsover. 

My bro is getting married next week, cant have a top table as too many households, can;t have a first dance with anyone other than bride, groom & parents, can't have confetti, can't have a live band, can't dance, has to finish early, the list is endless yet a matter of days later all of that will be allowed and more. 

It's a shame there isn't any competent opposition in Scotland or UK as the incumbent bunch are beyond incompetent. Sturgeon et al get an easy ride as they have the Indy vote but as a Govenment they have had fuck up after fuck up. 

 

 

Can't argue with any of that and wouldn't be surprised if when they say they're keeping an eye on the science what they're actually meaning is waiting see what happens in Scotland following the Wembley jaunt and what that does to hospital/ ICU numbers.  Wouldn't be surprised if down south numbers sky rocket shortly following Ukraine game and definitely will if they win the bloody thing.  However, the plan now seems to be they're happy enough with the vaccinated numbers and are now just going see what happens as it rips through  everyone during the summer.  

Once 'Freedom Day' is announced down south and all there'll be a sizeable demographic who won't  even bother getting tested/ self isolating anymore so I'm pretty much resigned to either getting it or having to stop in my house to avoid getting it - Given my wife works in a hotel even that would be pointless.  If I go see my granny in her care home though I'll carry on doing it from the window.  

For me this wave isn't really the worry at the moment as letting it rip through could even weaken it's severity - its if it mutates the wrong way somewhere else as our border control is fucking hopeless so far.   

  

[Lamia]

I have given up now because it is clear both Governments have. It is a complete joke that they have allowed the Euros to go ahead with huge crowds and all the associated travel and hospital that goes with that and yet there is an animal rescue centre near me which I support which is unable to open because it can't comply with the rules (just as one of many examples). 

I don't actually have an issue with what the UK Gov is doing because they have quick obviously not cared too much throughout the pandemic. It is the Scottish Government that are a disgrace because they haven't been honest about the impact the election had on their strategy. I now seriously believe their actions were predominantly based on the election not public health.

 

[phart]

2 hours ago, kumnio said:

Just had my second AZ jag this morning. 

Caird Hall was split into two sections, I’d say 1/3rd was for over 40s getting the AZ, and 2/3rds was for under 40s getting Pfizer. AZ was definitely the busier section, even allowing for the different capacities, I couldn’t have any serious guesstimate into numbers, but it was very under utilised compared to 8 weeks ago when I got my first. 
 

Doses are fixed now cause of supply chain. No new Pfizier till end ofg august and every dose is pretty much accounted for now so low vaccination numbers till then, unless it's for AZ folk missed first time around and 2nd doses for AZ.

[phart]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Can't argue with any of that and wouldn't be surprised if when they say they're keeping an eye on the science what they're actually meaning is waiting see what happens in Scotland following the Wembley jaunt and what that does to hospital/ ICU numbers.  Wouldn't be surprised if down south numbers sky rocket shortly following Ukraine game and definitely will if they win the bloody thing.  However, the plan now seems to be they're happy enough with the vaccinated numbers and are now just going see what happens as it rips through  everyone during the summer.  

Once 'Freedom Day' is announced down south and all there'll be a sizeable demographic who won't  even bother getting tested/ self isolating anymore so I'm pretty much resigned to either getting it or having to stop in my house to avoid getting it - Given my wife works in a hotel even that would be pointless.  If I go see my granny in her care home though I'll carry on doing it from the window.  

For me this wave isn't really the worry at the moment as letting it rip through could even weaken it's severity - its if it mutates the wrong way somewhere else as our border control is fucking hopeless so far.   

  

Yeah if you break cases down into regions there is clear picture where cases are surging as burns through the lower age groups.

Also it does seem the football was responsible for the initial surge.

 

[Scotty CTA]

New 'Lambda' variant from Peru.

Yay.

[Alibi]

Regarding dancing at weddings, at my daughter's wedding a couple of weeks ago, dancing wasn't allowed, but strangely exercise classes were.  Obviously exercise classes have music.  There was no actual dance floor allowed in the venue (which was a marquee so fairly well ventilated) and folk were spread out (in a venue with 44 guests when it could hold about 150) with localised socially distanced dancing, sorry, "exercise classes", at each table.  Worked well, and as everyone did a lateral flow test the day before and day after after the event, was reasonably safe.

[Lamia]

6 minutes ago, Alibi said:

  Worked well, and as everyone did a lateral flow test the day before and day after after the event, was reasonably safe.

😂😂

 

Honestly, why do people think this? They are really poor at detecting the virus when people don't have symptoms. 

[phart]

2 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

New 'Lambda' variant from Peru.

Yay.

Been about for a while Scotty. Not really in place with genomic sequencing though so hard to see how it was spreading, Peru doe shave the worst fatality rate though so that is a worrying correlation.

 

[chaff]

3 hours ago, phart said:

Doses are fixed now cause of supply chain. No new Pfizier till end ofg august and every dose is pretty much accounted for now so low vaccination numbers till then, unless it's for AZ folk missed first time around and 2nd doses for AZ.

There were 2 queues at my vaccination centre today one AZ on P.

not a soul at the P queue, about ten folk ahead of me getting Astra Zenica.

I took up a couple of boxes of chocolates for the staff and was treated like a king, didnt even feel the needle.

[DAVIDB46]

Kate Forbes with a straight face today said the decisions coming from Westminster were worrying.

I would say she should be more concerned with what is happening here , the coronavirus hotspots of Europe. 
 

Also the dentist and his no natural immunity nonsense , there should be prosecutions for how this has been handled in Scotland .

[TDYER63]

I cannot believe how folk think its all the governments fault for these high numbers. Does no one else on here  see what I see every day ,  non compliance everywhere . People need to start taking a bit of responsibility for their own actions, I am not talking about people on here who seem to be extremely careful, but this board is not a reflection of what is actually happening . 
 

[phart]

I'm inclined to agree where the behaviour contradicts the guidelines. However they did set the guidelines for the euros and it made no sense in comparison to how other things were treated. The behaviour being the same but permissable in one setting but not in another. Just breeds contempt for the whole guidelines etc.

 

[TDYER63]

6 minutes ago, phart said:

I'm inclined to agree where the behaviour contradicts the guidelines. However they did set the guidelines for the euros and it made no sense in comparison to how other things were treated. The behaviour being the same but permissable in one setting but not in another. Just breeds contempt for the whole guidelines etc.

 

I agree about the contradictions, though i think it all goes back to who how it is being monitored . I think they allowed a crowd for the football because it was an official event whereas there is more difficult  to monitor private events. The situation Alibi mentioned about the exercise and wedding differences seems ridiculous right enough  , but has anyone actually asked why. There must be some reason for it. 
With regards to the football, if everyone sat where they were supposed to be there would be no chance of infection. They were spreading the entry of 12,500 people over 3 hours and it was outside. 

But people are just not adhering anymore. Everyone knows you should wear a mask. Everyone knows you should stand a distance away. Everyone knows you should be sanitising your hands. But fewer and fewer people are doing it. 
 I would say it is as much because they are fed up with the restrictions,  as it is the contradictions of the rules, that just makes their actions easier to excuse, but i am certain they would do it anyway. It has been a long long time and people are weary. 
Half the nation moans about government interference the other half moans when they are ‘giving up’. 
Its not to say I think all this couldnt have been better handled, but people need to take a look at themselves and ask why the numbers are high. 
 

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

I cannot believe how folk think its all the governments fault for these high numbers. Does no one else on here  see what I see every day ,  non compliance everywhere . 
 

There are hardly any guidelines left to be fair. Plus if people are breaking the rules that are left I still think the government have to take a large amount of the blame because the tone and communications in general have changed substantially since the election.

Interesting that we go from daily briefings to weekly if we are lucky. NS isn't interested in reinforcing the message any more.

[TDYER63]

1 minute ago, Lamia said:

There are hardly any guidelines left to be fair. Plus if people are breaking the rules that are left I still think the government have to take a large amount of the blame because the tone and communications in general have changed substantially since the election.

Interesting that we go from daily briefings to weekly if we are lucky. NS isn't interested in reinforcing the message any more.

I think the reduction in briefings and change in communication has reduced  in conjunction with the increase in vaccinations. People are expecting things to improve as the vaccinations increase, and they are. The hospital numbers have massively reduced.  I have to be honest and say I could count on my 2 hands the number of briefings I have heard during the entire pandemic. I know the main things i need to do and tbh if folk dont know what they are supposed to be doing by now they never will. I really dont think we  need a constant update anymore. I realise other people feel different though.