Tartan Chris Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 57 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: I can only guess but when players and managers fall out it usually signals the beginning of the end for the manager. My guess would be that the players don't have any faith in his leadership, selections or tactics. I would guess there's a downbeat air when the team meet up compared to Strachan era (even if the results weren't that much better). Players feel there's no real hope of Scotland achieving anything in near future and rightly or wrongly don't want a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: It would be interesting to see the stats in terms of call offs for each, personally I think Mcliesh made an ass of it when he allowed certain players to miss the Peru/Mexico matches. He made it clear it was ok to miss matches. So the solution is to down tools because they don't like it, they have another option. Turn up and give your all for Scotland.................................... its a unique option but they could try it It's not that simple and you know it. Maybe the players don't think they will get the chance to give their all because the manager won't actually pick them to play in the matches. Maybe the training methods aren't quite right. Maybe they simply don't get on with a manager that doesn't seem to know what is going on half the time. Whatever their reasons and whether we agree with them or not, the signs are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Correct me if I’m wrong but Ritchie and Snodgass haven’t played much or at all for McLeish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: It's not that simple and you know it. Maybe the players don't think they will get the chance to give their all because the manager won't actually pick them to play in the matches. Maybe the training methods aren't quite right. Maybe they simply don't get on with a manager that doesn't seem to know what is going on half the time. Whatever their reasons and whether we agree with them or not, the signs are bad. Actually it is that simple, ask players like Kenny Miller, I bet he had issues with certain managers and their tactics but he would turn up regardless. Are you actually trying to justify a player taking the huff in case they don't get picked or they don't like the training methods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Actually it is that simple, ask players like Kenny Miller, I bet he had issues with certain managers and their tactics but he would turn up regardless. Are you actually trying to justify a player taking the huff in case they don't get picked or they don't like the training methods? I don't agree with it, no. We are a country that needs every single option we have available and ready for selection. We struggle with our best players available never-mind when half our players playing at a decent level aren't available. The point I am making is that it is very rare for a manager to recover from this sort of thing. I imaging that you or I would play for Scotland for free. We'd probably pay our own expenses to get to the games and would do anything we can to help the team. I bet we also both know people that wouldn't watch Scotland if it was free to get in and they had nothing else to do. It is daft to think that all players are like Kenny Miller. Edited November 7, 2018 by PASTA Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggycoo Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 22 hours ago, JECK said: Aye where the fk is snodgrass? Apparently carrying an ankle knock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Chris Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: Correct me if I’m wrong but Ritchie and Snodgass haven’t played much or at all for McLeish? Snodgrass wasn't in first two squads as he wanted to concentrate on establishing himself at West Ham which he has now done (started on Saturday). He was a late call up for Portugal game wasn't he? Funnilly enough got Talksport on and he's actually a guest on the Hawskbee and Jacobs show this afternoon so would imagine they'll ask him about Scotland so see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, PASTA Mick said: I don't agree with it no. We are a country that needs every single option we have available and ready for selection. We struggle with our best players available never-mind when half our players playing at a decent level aren't available. The point I am making is that it is very rare for a manager to recover from this sort of thing. I agree, we need every option but no way should we be pandering to players who don't like the manager, if anything thats been one of our problems, welcoming back the sulks or those who see Scotland as nothing more than something they will do when they can be arsed. By welcoming back the sulks, it shows the SFA and manager have no back bone. You don't play for the SFA or the Manager you play for Scotland regardless of which muppet sits on the bench picking the team. Agreed, managers don't recover and I think its unfair that they have to shoulder the whole blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Tartan Chris said: Snodgrass wasn't in first two squads as he wanted to concentrate on establishing himself at West Ham which he has now done (started on Saturday). He was a late call up for Portugal game wasn't he? Funnilly enough got Talksport on and he's actually a guest on the Hawskbee and Jacobs show this afternoon so would imagine they'll ask him about Scotland so see what he says. in what way would playing for Scotland hinder his chances of playing for west ham? Surely if he turned in an eye catching performance his club manager would be less likely to ignore him? The excuses the modern players come away with nowadays are becoming more pathetic by the day, its about time they were pulled up on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyDenoon Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 17 hours ago, Bino's said: We only need a draw and a win Play a 541 away then go for it at home Yes that would be enough to win the group. But there’s more than that to think about. A draw v Albania and a win v Israel will very likely see us away from home for the first/semi final playoff. We’d struggle to win that. Two wins will probably mean a home tie instead. I’d fancy our chances. The difference is massive. We need to win both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, DaveyDenoon said: Yes that would be enough to win the group. But there’s more than that to think about. A draw v Albania and a win v Israel will very likely see us away from home for the first/semi final playoff. We’d struggle to win that. Two wins will probably mean a home tie instead. I’d fancy our chances. The difference is massive. We need to win both. Completely agree, none of this a draw is ok nonsense. The players and management must treat every single match as a must win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: I agree, we need every option but no way should we be pandering to players who don't like the manager, if anything thats been one of our problems, welcoming back the sulks or those who see Scotland as nothing more than something they will do when they can be arsed. By welcoming back the sulks, it shows the SFA and manager have no back bone. You don't play for the SFA or the Manager you play for Scotland regardless of which muppet sits on the bench picking the team. Agreed, managers don't recover and I think its unfair that they have to shoulder the whole blame. You only play if the muppet on the bench picks you to play. A good example this week is that he said something along the lines of "We need players to be playing regularly” after leaving out Tom Cairney, who has played 180 minutes in five days but selected Stuart Armstrong who has played 152 in the league all season. He also said something about Cairney coming on as a sub on Monday despite him playing the full match. Now if you were Tom Cairney, are you going to want to play under McLeish? Remember, the alternative would be getting yourself rested, maybe sneak in a holiday to somewhere sunny, and get ready for a tough part of the season. Personally, I'd be prefer to be in the squad and trying to get in the team but I've certainly worked under managers that I wouldn't want to go out my way to help, and would have actually been quite happy to see them fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said: You only play if the muppet on the bench picks you to play. A good example this week is that he said something along the lines of "We need players to be playing regularly” after leaving out Tom Cairney, who has played 180 minutes in five days but selected Stuart Armstrong who has played 152 in the league all season. He also said something about Cairney coming on as a sub on Monday despite him playing the full match. Now if you were Tom Cairney, are you going to want to play under McLeish? Remember, the alternative would be getting yourself rested, maybe sneak in a holiday to somewhere sunny, and get ready for a tough part of the season. Personally, I'd be prefer to be in the squad and trying to get in the team but I've certainly worked under managers that I wouldn't want to go out my way to help, and would have actually been quite happy to see them fail. If the muppet on the bench doesn't play you, you try harder to make sure he does next time the part in bold I've worked for some right arseholes in my time but I always made sure my performance and attitude was at the right standard regardless of who I worked for. By the way, yer pal Strachan said the exact same thing about players playing regularly and then he picked someone who wasn't. They all do it. EDIT - mis read your post Edited November 7, 2018 by vanderark14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Where would your money go? McLeish XI McGregor McKenna Mulgrew Tierney O'Donnell McGinn McDonald Robertson McGregor Russell Fletcher vs. Rhodes Snodgrass Cairney Ritchie McTominay McArthur Douglas Hanley Hendry Bardsley Marshall Not in the squad XI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_McCole Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Completely agree, none of this a draw is ok nonsense. The players and management must treat every single match as a must win I don't think we've got it in us to just play for a draw anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, vanderark14 said: If the muppet on the bench doesn't play you, you try harder to make sure he does next time the part in bold I've worked for some right arseholes in my time but I always made sure my performance and attitude was at the right standard regardless of who I worked for. By the way, yer pal Strachan said the exact same thing about players playing regularly and then he picked someone who wasn't. They all do it. EDIT - mis read your post I wanted Strachan to leave. He made some bizarre selections, particularly towards the end where he kept picking the likes of Anya and ignoring the likes of McGregor. Saying that, if I knew McLeish was to follow, I'd have quite happily stuck with Strachan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrniaboc Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, vanderark14 said: Where to start with this, The five players in bold - there's nothing to suggest every one has packed it in except Brown and McArthur, neither were definitely down to McLeish unless you know something we don't. The issue with griffiths? I thought he wanted to work on his fitness? Is he lying? Actually it looks like Ritchie actually has asked to not be selected for the foreseeable future https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46122723. I don't think that's the case for Snoddy and Cairney though. I'd love to see them back in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintsparky Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, PASTA Mick said: Where would your money go? McLeish XI McGregor McKenna Mulgrew Tierney O'Donnell McGinn McDonald Robertson McGregor Russell Fletcher vs. Rhodes Snodgrass Cairney Ritchie McTominay McArthur Douglas Hanley Hendry Bardsley Marshall Not in the squad XI 0-0 obviously... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctonjock Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 The not in the squad X1 would be the slowest team ever . No pace anywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wee-toon-red Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, PASTA Mick said: Where would your money go? McLeish XI McGregor McKenna Mulgrew Tierney O'Donnell McGinn McDonald Robertson McGregor Russell Fletcher vs. Rhodes Snodgrass Cairney Ritchie McTominay McArthur Douglas Hanley Hendry Bardsley Marshall Not in the squad XI The “McLeish XI” is almost entirely better, player for player, than the other one. And that’s before you would look at players “genuinely” injured rather than pretendy injured. also, you’ve left Griffiths out the other team, who is really the only missing player who would massively improve us. And I say this as someone who would prefer it if mcleish wasn’t our manager. Edited November 7, 2018 by wee-toon-red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, wee-toon-red said: The “McLeish XI” is almost entirely better, player for player, than the other one. And that’s before you would look at players “genuinely” injured rather than pretendy injured. also, you’ve left Griffiths out the other team, who is really the only missing player who would massively improve us. And I say this as someone who would prefer it if mcleish wasn’t our manager. Griffiths is actually injured so I left him out. Personally I think the second team has a much stronger midfield, and I say that as someone that doesn't really rate Snodgrass or Ritchie at international level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 If Fraser is fit we really should play a back 4. A midfield of McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Forrest and Fraser has potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningtings Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 Forrest is way overdue a decent game for Scotland, never looks that interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich NATA Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 hours ago, PASTA Mick said: he kept picking the likes of Anya Am I the only Scotland fan who thinks we were significantly better with Anya on the pitch?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Rich NATA said: Am I the only Scotland fan who thinks we were significantly better with Anya on the pitch?? A few years ago, maybe. The last year under Strachan? No Anya was fast, hard working, enthusiastic...which was great. We just had better footballers in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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