Israel Match Thread (11/10/2018)

[robbo cop]

Not one leader on the park last night, always had my doubts about Robertson being captain. At least Brown and Fletcher were vocal on the pitch and at least tried to give the defence some cover. The whole team were all over the place last night. Sad to say but we are stuck with Mcleish whether we like it or not.

[Squirrelhumper]

Just now, robbo cop said:

Not one leader on the park last night, always had my doubts about Robertson being captain. At least Brown and Fletcher were vocal on the pitch and at least tried to give the defence some cover. The whole team were all over the place last night. Sad to say but we are stuck with Mcleish whether we like it or not.

Can't disagree with any of that.

Robertson is never a captain.

[Squirrelhumper]

25 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Get Walter back. Park the bus.

I've only seen each team play once but, to me, Israel looked like a better team than Albania. We'll have a better idea after Sunday. I think that could be a draw. Which would tend to indicate that all three of us are pretty similar in standard. Which was after all the whole idea of the Nations League in the first place. It gives teams a chance to play other teams of similar standard.

 

Albania beat Israel, NI wiped the floor with Israel only last month.

We're a shambles.

[Parklife]

46 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Has he no managed Genk and in Egypt?  haha.

Where is the dinosaur stuff coming from?  

we don't need a foreign manager or a young manager.  we need a good manager.  

Have you watched his team play or listened to him speak? He's a narrow-minded fool. 

33 minutes ago, henry george said:

He does play defensive midfield for Fulham.

I thought he had his best game for us last night.  It was on the wings where we were getting murdered.

Jesus H Christ. You must've watched the game while high on some class-A's. 

30 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

According to Billy Dodds on sportsound he lacked defensive awareness and let players run over him.

Billy Dodds is totally correct. 

[jcs]

18 minutes ago, robbo cop said:

Not one leader on the park last night, always had my doubts about Robertson being captain. At least Brown and Fletcher were vocal on the pitch and at least tried to give the defence some cover. The whole team were all over the place last night. Sad to say but we are stuck with Mcleish whether we like it or not.

That’s what makes it so bad, if Israel can beat us with him as manager can you imagine the style of defeats against decent opposition, i understand we’re all looking for answers and I’m not sayin that Robertson is the man for captaincy but in the same breath I understand why he would be made captain, his pedigree with Liverpool is obvious compared to most of the balloons we have 

Edited October 12, 2018 by jcs

[er yir macaroon]

52 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

According to Billy Dodds on sportsound he lacked defensive awareness and let players run over him.

I’d remove Macdonald, replace him with Tierney and go to a back four. 

[vanderark14]

30 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Can't disagree with any of that.

Robertson is never a captain.

 

22 minutes ago, jcs said:

That’s what makes it so bad, if Israel can beat us with him as manager can you imagine the style of defeats against decent opposition, i understand we’re all looking for answers and I’m not sayin that Robertson is the man for captaincy but in the same breath I understand why he would be made captain, his pedigree with Liverpool is obvious compared to most of the balloons we have 

Robertson was or could still be a good choice for captain, he a hard working players who can be inspirational and he plays at the top level.

I think its harsh for anyone to write him off after two matches as captain

[robbo cop]

21 minutes ago, jcs said:

That’s what makes it so bad, if Israel can beat us with him as manager can you imagine the style of defeats against decent opposition, i understand we’re all looking for answers and I’m not sayin that Robertson is the man for captaincy but in the same breath I understand why he would be made captain, his pedigree with Liverpool is obvious compared to most of the balloons we have 

II think a lot of us thought we had turned the corner a bit in the previous match but this display was a hundred miles away from that which makes it all the more disappointing.

[Angstgoose]

Cannae believe what I watched last night. As previously said by others , no real leaders / captain on show, we missed Brown.. Also wi Tierney and Robertson on the left I was expecting attacking runs like both do for their clubs ... nothing. We had 2 shots on goal aw night and wan o them wuz a penatly. Aw this against a team who were down on their luck, no wins in 10 games. Why were we no attacking fae the get go. We will be lucky to top this group going on last nights performance.

Coming oer fae Holland fer the Portugal game then af tae Loch Ness fer 3 days. It will be my 5 year old daughters first mens game. She's gonnae hate me...firstly watching us get humped then finding oot there's no really a Loch Ness monster ; )

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

14 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

Worst performance since McLeish in Goergia.

But don't be too harsh...he picks players from Killie and Hearts. 

No, worst away performance since Macedonia 0-1 (yell get up 100 times is management by burley)

or Czech's no forwards Levein

or being smashed by Wales & Serbia & Slovakia Strachan.

But it was the worst I've seen for actually being able to get something out of the game.

Hate the 3 at the back, so narrow and the wing backs/wingers don't defend or create.  If we had switched to a back four before red card and put actual wingers on we would have at least got a draw.  We looked better with ten men then eleven.

[er yir macaroon]

2 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

No, worst away performance since Macedonia 0-1 (yell get up 100 times is management by burley)

or Czech's no forwards Levein

or being smashed by Wales & Serbia & Slovakia Strachan.

But it was the worst I've seen for actually being able to get something out of the game.

Hate the 3 at the back, so narrow and the wing backs/wingers don't defend or create.  If we had switched to a back four before red card and put actual wingers on we would have at least got a draw.  We looked better with ten men then eleven.

We were indeed better with 10 men and nearly got a draw. Back four all the way, we just don’t seem to have the nouse for anything else. 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

14 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Scotland team for many years now just don't turn up for important away games I'm afraid. Probably last time you could be confident of Scotland going away and getting important results would be Craig Brown's era although Strachan did pick up some good ones in fairness.

Complicates the group big time now. I think this team will lose in Albania now so huge pressure on the home game v Israel.

When was our last big important away win?

France 06, oops that's it.

When we played great and beat Norway and Slovenia 04 and Croatia 12 we were already as good as dead in qualifying.

Even in Broons era it was more big away draws, Russia, Austria than actual wins, can only think of Finland 95.

[Orraloon]

10 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Albania beat Israel, NI wiped the floor with Israel only last month.

We're a shambles.

And we beat Albania. Does that mean we should beat Israel? We didn't.

We got a draw against England, does that mean we are as good as them?

We were a shambles last night.

I think that part of the reason we were a shambles is that the players and the management team got caught up in the hype about how pish Israel are supposed to be. "95th in the rankings",   "haven't won a game for over a year" they've only played 4, "only won one game since Nov 2016 and that was against Liechtenstein" have a look at the teams that beat them - Spain, Italy, Romania, Albania (again). Is our record much better than theirs?

We started of trying to play a quick passing game like we did against Albania. It wasn't working. It was like all of sudden our players thought "Fuk me, these guys are not as pishy as we thought they were". It was like panic set in. Our quick passing game quickly changed to one pass, then give the ball away, work like fuk to win it back, one pass then give the ball away again. They were all at it. Even Robertson and Tierney and they are our best players. Headless chickens.

In general Israel aren't much better than us (they were last night) but they are not much worse either. Same with Albania. That's the reason we are in the same League.

 

 

 

 

[Rolling hIlls]

2 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

When was our last big important away win?

France 06, oops that's it.

When we played great and beat Norway and Slovenia 04 and Croatia 12 we were already as good as dead in qualifying.

Even in Broons era it was more big away draws, Russia, Austria than actual wins, can only think of Finland 95.

I have met craig brown and he js a good guy. Even got a letter from him thanking me. A good man.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

2 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

We were indeed better with 10 men and nearly got a draw. Back four all the way, we just don’t seem to have the nouse for anything else. 

Nouse, totally agree.  I was actually for Mcleish as well, I'm an idiot though.

Where did he find this back 3-5?  Only team playing this sht formation is the worst team to ever reach a wc semi.

It means the two extra guys, Robertson & O'Donnell have to do everthing and achieve nothing.

They have to provide the width, defend as wingbacks and also create as wingers, impossible, makes them both look crap

[Ronnie McAlpine]

McLeish must go and replace him with Steve Clarke or Craig Levein. 

His excuse of it being extreme heat was nonsense. It was a lovey evening only around 26C. Maybe he is going through the menopause or detoxing from the drink as it was not hot at all. 

His team were hammered 2-1. Should have been 5-1! We got off lightly, by a country where most don't even like football with a population same as ours. 

His teams have no heart, fight or spirit. They are so weak! A new manager can change the players mindsets.

The central midfield is weak as piss. We need a pack of ankle biters in there. Guys that can run and fight all day long. Last night they were over run, when they got the ball only provided side way passes. I can empathise somewhat as forwards Naismith and Russel were lackluster, unimaginative and flat. Naismith was out run easily by defenders and Russel could not hold his breath. 

As for defense there is no steel, who would be afraid of those guys. Honestly get some growlers in there. Scour the lower leagues for growlers who can header the ball with there face all night long and look better for it!

The wingers were so-so. Roberson could not get past a player, nor cross a ball and struggled with a straight forward pass last night, Tierney was ineffective out of position and didn't show much when he had an opportunity. Colin McGregor had a decent game and most of our opportunities. I though when Forrest came on we looked better even with 10 men and 2-1 down, with runners on left and right side. 

Allan McGregor did ok in goal, his distribution was wanting, he did a lot of long kicks up to Naismith and Russel who could not hold or get to the ball first. Again empathise with him as he had no others outs.

A new manager can bring Griffith back, Scotlands best striker. He could source a new big head the baw to partner Griffith, inspire the wingers, toughen up the central midfield, and bring in strength & aggression in at the back.

Last night was so embarrassing and humiliating to be degraded by Israel like that. It has been coming since McLeish took over. Call time on McLeish now! 

 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie McAlpine said:

McLeish must go and replace him with Steve Clarke or Craig Levein. 

His excuse of it being extreme heat was nonsense. It was a lovey evening only around 26C. Maybe he is going through the menopause or detoxing from the drink as it was not hot at all. 

His team were hammered 2-1. Should have been 5-1! We got off lightly, by a country where most don't even like football with a population same as ours. 

His teams have no heart, fight or spirit. They are so weak! A new manager can change the players mindsets.

The central midfield is weak as piss. We need a pack of ankle biters in there. Guys that can run and fight all day long. Last night they were over run, when they got the ball only provided side way passes. I can empathise somewhat as forwards Naismith and Russel were lackluster, unimaginative and flat. Naismith was out run easily by defenders and Russel could not hold his breath. 

As for defense there is no steel, who would be afraid of those guys. Honestly get some growlers in there. Scour the lower leagues for growlers who can header the ball with there face all night long and look better for it!

The wingers were so-so. Roberson could not get past a player, nor cross a ball and struggled with a straight forward pass last night, Tierney was ineffective out of position and didn't show much when he had an opportunity. Colin McGregor had a decent game and most of our opportunities. I though when Forrest came on we looked better even with 10 men and 2-1 down, with runners on left and right side. 

Allan McGregor did ok in goal, his distribution was wanting, he did a lot of long kicks up to Naismith and Russel who could not hold or get to the ball first. Again empathise with him as he had no others outs.

A new manager can bring Griffith back, Scotlands best striker. He could source a new big head the baw to partner Griffith, inspire the wingers, toughen up the central midfield, and bring in strength & aggression in at the back.

Last night was so embarrassing and humiliating to be degraded by Israel like that. It has been coming since McLeish took over. Call time on McLeish now! 

 

Agree was embrassing and humiliating making Isreal look amazing.

But Allan MacGregor was immense last night, like he has been all season.  Best reflexes of any current GK.

Plus Scotland are always terrible when temperature gets above 21c

[Orraloon]

5 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

I have met craig brown and he js a good guy. Even got a letter from him thanking me. A good man.

He thanked you for letting him meet you? That wis good of him right enough.

[Rolling hIlls]

2 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

He thanked you for letting him meet you? That wis good of him right enough.

I have the letter boy. No. He came to a couple of our sportsmans dinners along with marjory nimmo. Was a gentleman.anyway. how do we solve the problem? I honestly believe souness is still the best answer. 

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

12 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Are things really that much different though? Good result at Hampden followed by a poor away result...I know Strachan picked up some good away results but not the key ones like Georgia in 2015 and Slovenia which stopped the team qualifying.

This poor result has complicated things but I would still expect to beat Israel at Hampden. Do that and still a good chance to top the group.

 

12 hours ago, Templeton_Peck said:

Was just an absolute shambles.. Players looked knackered early on and we just played no football at all. 

We were getting murdered down each flank but we did nothing to change that

In posession we were timid and often going sideways or backwards.. 

 

 

12 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

The mindset really is just to knick draws away from home. Not saying it's right but generally with the lack of quality in central defence and upfront I can understand it and just bank on winning the home games where things are completely different.

I think that's the issue for me, the lack of even decent options at CB and upfront. Generally teams who qualify for tournaments have good options in at least one of those areas. Think of Northern Ireland's defence that got clean sheet after clean sheet in euro 2016 qualifying and obviously Wales have Bale in the final third.

But TartanChris we have to be able to win these games against pot 4-5 teams to qualify.  Then try and knick draws against pot1-2 teams away.  Admit I would love to see a day when Scotland goes away and outplays top teams.  However, last night we are 1-0 up undeservedly, why not change system now and stay on front foot instead of retreating and playing long ball stuff.

Our rubbish 3-5 man at back meant the midfield only had McGinn and macdonald in it, made Isreal look great =, so narrow and easily passed through.

[ScotlandWintheWorldCup]

How about this for team and I know nothing compared to Mcleish.

                                McGregor

Tiernay         Souttar              McKenna           Robertson

                                McGinn

Middleton       Armstrong   McGregor             Forrest

                             Naismith

Too soon for middleton?  He does look class though

McGinn needs to be our B.Ferguson/S.Brown role.  DM but given the ball to play out.

Should be a one L.Griffiths up front but he needs to work on his fitness"!

Also Probably could have Snodgrass in middle and McGregor out on right.

This team would have beaten Israel

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

I have the letter boy. No. He came to a couple of our sportsmans dinners along with marjory nimmo. Was a gentleman.anyway. how do we solve the problem? I honestly believe souness is still the best answer. 

Whit problem? We are top of the group with two games to play. When was the last time that happened?

[Rolling hIlls]

34 minutes ago, Angstgoose said:

Cannae believe what I watched last night. As previously said by others , no real leaders / captain on show, we missed Brown.. Also wi Tierney and Robertson on the left I was expecting attacking runs like both do for their clubs ... nothing. We had 2 shots on goal aw night and wan o them wuz a penatly. Aw this against a team who were down on their luck, no wins in 10 games. Why were we no attacking fae the get go. We will be lucky to top this group going on last nights performance.

Coming oer fae Holland fer the Portugal game then af tae Loch Ness fer 3 days. It will be my 5 year old daughters first mens game. She's gonnae hate me...firstly watching us get humped then finding oot there's no really a Loch Ness monster ; )

What do u mean there is no loch ness monster? Can u prove that? Dinny burst the lassies mind in the space of 3 days!!

[Parklife]

1 minute ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

How about this for team and I know nothing compared to Mcleish.

                                McGregor

Tiernay         Souttar              McKenna           Robertson

                                McGinn

Middleton       Armstrong   McGregor             Forrest

                             Naismith

Too soon for middleton?  He does look class though

McGinn needs to be our B.Ferguson/S.Brown role.  DM but given the ball to play out.

Should be a one L.Griffiths up front but he needs to work on his fitness"!

Also Probably could have Snodgrass in middle and McGregor out on right.

This team would have beaten Israel

It's a better stab at it than McLeish had, that's for sure. I'd have Forrest right side and Snodgrass left though. 

I've also not given up on McBurnie, i think he has something. Links the play well AND is a goal threat. 

[Rolling hIlls]

4 minutes ago, ScotlandWintheWorldCup said:

How about this for team and I know nothing compared to Mcleish.

                                McGregor

Tiernay         Souttar              McKenna           Robertson

                                McGinn

Middleton       Armstrong   McGregor             Forrest

                             Naismith

Too soon for middleton?  He does look class though

McGinn needs to be our B.Ferguson/S.Brown role.  DM but given the ball to play out.

Should be a one L.Griffiths up front but he needs to work on his fitness"!

Also Probably could have Snodgrass in middle and McGregor out on right.

This team would have beaten Israel

Good shout