Should Strachan be given another campaign?

[vanderark14]

11 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

We laboured to home wins against Ireland and a very poor Georgia side by a single goal.  We played well in Germany but ultimately lost (no shame there) however despite the close scoreline in the game at Hampden they could have moved up about 2-3 gears any time they wanted to.  We twice squandered winning positions against Poland and had the ignominy of allowing Gibraltar to score their first ever goal against us.  Then there was Georgia.  3 teams qualified from our 6 team group and we weren't one of them.  How anyone can view that campaign as anything other than an abject failure is beyond me.

What he said 

[Dalgety Bay TA]

8 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

.  How anyone can view that campaign as anything other than an abject failure is beyond me.

Possibly because we went into the group as 4th seeds and finished 4th. We performed as we were expected to, not better and certainly not worse. 

 

People keep on citing Ireland away as a poor performance and 2 points lost. I don't agree. The team was probably wrong to start the game and Ireland only got the better of the first half with an offside goal. We were the better side second half and yes we settled for a draw with about 15 to go but people have to remember when the game took place, practically mid June at the end of a long hard season for many. On both sides. A few of our players were running on empty near the end of the game including players who are normally our most energetic such as Naismith and Brown. I was about 30 yards from Naismith when he misplaced a simple 10 yard pass in about the last 10-15 mins, he just looked f**ked, quite a few did. However as we left the stadium I didn't encounter many who felt it was a bad result, we all felt we had done what we needed to do, 4 from 6 of Ireland and left them with 1 from 6 v us. 

We failed to qualify due to a horrific performance in Georgia, our one really bad performance. That can in part be put down to the fact that we just don't have top level players and they will, at times, throw in a stinker as they are not at the level of playing consistently well week in week out. It would be better if they had chucked one in v Germany, not in a crucial  game v Georgia. That and Ireland taking 4 from 6 v the supposedly invincible Germany did us.

[Malcolm]

I think the key question is could we attract anyone who could do a better job... and I think that the answer is no.  The simple facts are we are not good enough - players are limited, our league is limited, we barely make an impact on Europe, our anglo players are in the bottom half of the Premiership or Championship.  We are at a level now, where even competing for qualification is a success, and qualifying for anything a major achievement.  Everyone will mention Wales as an example, but they have a superstar in Bale and some other decent top players such as Ramsay - we have no such talent. 

 

 

[deecie]

McLeish is both better and available.

[Barney Rubble]

56 minutes ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

People keep on citing Ireland away as a poor performance and 2 points lost. I don't agree. The team was probably wrong to start the game and Ireland only got the better of the first half with an offside goal. We were the better side second half and yes we settled for a draw with about 15 to go but people have to remember when the game took place, practically mid June at the end of a long hard season for many. On both sides.

My apologies for the selective quotation. The only words I would disagree with in that analysis are the ones in bold. Ireland away was an opportunity to put them to bed, and poor performance or not, a win would have buried their chances that day. That was ceratinly achievable after the equaliser but we did not go for it. Contrast that to Ireland's performance v Germany when only a win was good enough for them. What I thought immediately after Dublin was that it was an opportunity missed and hindsight has proved that opinion to be correct. We must shed the mentatlity that a draw away from home against teams outwith the top two seeds is a good result in qualification terms - it clearly is not. And that is one of the things that has to change immediately if we are make the finals of a tournament again.

Aside from that your comment about a long, hard season puzzles me. What would be the point in qualifying anyway if we are going to take the view that we are knackered after a long hard season? It's comes with the territory. We have to be mentally and physically adept to face the challenge and clearly we are short in both departments at the moment.

[Kirk]

2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

Possibly because we went into the group as 4th seeds and finished 4th. We performed as we were expected to, not better and certainly not worse. 

 

People keep on citing Ireland away as a poor performance and 2 points lost. I don't agree. The team was probably wrong to start the game and Ireland only got the better of the first half with an offside goal. We were the better side second half and yes we settled for a draw with about 15 to go but people have to remember when the game took place, practically mid June at the end of a long hard season for many. On both sides. A few of our players were running on empty near the end of the game including players who are normally our most energetic such as Naismith and Brown. I was about 30 yards from Naismith when he misplaced a simple 10 yard pass in about the last 10-15 mins, he just looked f**ked, quite a few did. However as we left the stadium I didn't encounter many who felt it was a bad result, we all felt we had done what we needed to do, 4 from 6 of Ireland and left them with 1 from 6 v us. 

We failed to qualify due to a horrific performance in Georgia, our one really bad performance. That can in part be put down to the fact that we just don't have top level players and they will, at times, throw in a stinker as they are not at the level of playing consistently well week in week out. It would be better if they had chucked one in v Germany, not in a crucial  game v Georgia. That and Ireland taking 4 from 6 v the supposedly invincible Germany did us.

Being tired shouldnt be an excuse as a footballer, they are meant to be athletes, if they canny handle an extra game at the end of the season then they really need to up their fitness levels.

We should have went there to beat ireland but you could see as soon as we equalised we were happy to take a draw, and that for me is the difference between the good teams and us. We settle when we should be going all out, ####ed ourselves, no luck involved!!

[Dalgety Bay TA]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

My apologies for the selective quotation. The only words I would disagree with in that analysis are the ones in bold. Ireland away was an opportunity to put them to bed, and poor performance or not, a win would have buried their chances that day. That was ceratinly achievable after the equaliser but we did not go for it. Contrast that to Ireland's performance v Germany when only a win was good enough for them. What I thought immediately after Dublin was that it was an opportunity missed and hindsight has proved that opinion to be correct. We must shed the mentatlity that a draw away from home against teams outwith the top two seeds is a good result in qualification terms - it clearly is not. And that is one of the things that has to change immediately if we are make the finals of a tournament again.

Aside from that your comment about a long, hard season puzzles me. What would be the point in qualifying anyway if we are going to take the view that we are knackered after a long hard season? It's comes with the territory. We have to be mentally and physically adept to face the challenge and clearly we are short in both departments at the moment.

 

19 minutes ago, Kirk said:

Being tired shouldnt be an excuse as a footballer, they are meant to be athletes, if they canny handle an extra game at the end of the season then they really need to up their fitness levels.

We should have went there to beat ireland but you could see as soon as we equalised we were happy to take a draw, and that for me is the difference between the good teams and us. We settle when we should be going all out, ####ed ourselves, no luck involved!!

Hindsight is, of course, always 100% correct. As said, at the time I didn't hear too many complaints as we were coming out of the Aviva that day. Everyone seemed pleased with the result, the Irish, in contrast, were gutted and felt they were now out of it. 

In terms of the fitness/tiredness thing, it just seemed obvious to me that players, on both sides, seemed to be running on empty towards the end of that game, players who are normally still running on 90 minutes weren't. That, in part, probably contributed to the "settling". At that point in the campaign it was the smart/professional choice to not risk losing that game and gain the upper hand on them - at that point. We had had a go at them in the second half but we did sit back with about 15 to go. If we had lost I am sure we would all have been moaning about not being professional enough and seeing out what we had. Its only when the full consequences were known that that everyone becomes an expert and calls it a bad result.

If Germany had done what they would normally have done, and won in Ireland instead of losing, then again we would all have been calling it a great result to get a draw in Ireland, give us the upper hand over them and make it to the play offs.

 

 

 

[bonzo]

This is all ifs and buts we didnae qualify and Strachan is still the manager let's get on wae it. 

[Morrisandmoo]

6 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

We laboured to home wins against Ireland and a very poor Georgia side by a single goal.  We played well in Germany but ultimately lost (no shame there) however despite the close scoreline in the game at Hampden they could have moved up about 2-3 gears any time they wanted to.  We twice squandered winning positions against Poland and had the ignominy of allowing Gibraltar to score their first ever goal against us.  Then there was Georgia.  3 teams qualified from our 6 team group and we weren't one of them.  How anyone can view that campaign as anything other than an abject failure is beyond me.

This should be framed as the quintessential Scottish slant. It's like nostalgia's evil cousin. If there is bleakness and misery in any story...WE WILL FIND IT! 

The home game against Georgia was one of the most reassured performances from us that I've seen! If the 3-2 against Germany was flattering us, then the 1-0 vs Georgia was definitely flattering them! And vs Poland did we not also come back twice from a losing position...? 

The truth is that there was lots of good in the campaign (we were definitely singing 'we're gonna qualify' in Ireland...for about an hour) and bad as well. But you've decided to focus only on the negatives and spin everything in the worst possible way.

Which is fine but I thought your motto was, 'Stop talking about who's to blame when all that counts is how to change'!

[Barney Rubble]

3 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

Hindsight is, of course, always 100% correct. As said, at the time I didn't hear too many complaints as we were coming out of the Aviva that day. Everyone seemed pleased with the result, the Irish, in contrast, were gutted and felt they were now out of it. 

In terms of the fitness/tiredness thing, it just seemed obvious to me that players, on both sides, seemed to be running on empty towards the end of that game, players who are normally still running on 90 minutes weren't. That, in part, probably contributed to the "settling". At that point in the campaign it was the smart/professional choice to not risk losing that game and gain the upper hand on them - at that point. We had had a go at them in the second half but we did sit back with about 15 to go. If we had lost I am sure we would all have been moaning about not being professional enough and seeing out what we had. Its only when the full consequences were known that that everyone becomes an expert and calls it a bad result.

If Germany had done what they would normally have done, and won in Ireland instead of losing, then again we would all have been calling it a great result to get a draw in Ireland, give us the upper hand over them and make it to the play offs.

 

 

 

You weren't coming out near to me then. I'll admit I was in the minority that weekend - but my view then (and now) was that when we have the chance to eliminate someone definitively.....................Scotland will play for the draw.

And that's what happened. What then happened v Georgia proved that instinct to be correct.

That's the mentality that has to be shown the door - and not necessarily Gordon Strachan.

[Dalgety Bay TA]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

You weren't coming out near to me then. I'll admit I was in the minority that weekend - but my view then (and now) was that when we have the chance to eliminate someone definitively.....................Scotland will play for the draw.

And that's what happened. What then happened v Georgia proved that instinct to be correct.

That's the mentality that has to be shown the door - and not necessarily Gordon Strachan.

Possibly not. We were in the ground for a wee bit after final whistle with a lot of Scotland fans "celebrating" as if we had won the game. That's how the result was viewed at the time. 

[Kirk]

8 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

 

Hindsight is, of course, always 100% correct. As said, at the time I didn't hear too many complaints as we were coming out of the Aviva that day. Everyone seemed pleased with the result, the Irish, in contrast, were gutted and felt they were now out of it. 

In terms of the fitness/tiredness thing, it just seemed obvious to me that players, on both sides, seemed to be running on empty towards the end of that game, players who are normally still running on 90 minutes weren't. That, in part, probably contributed to the "settling". At that point in the campaign it was the smart/professional choice to not risk losing that game and gain the upper hand on them - at that point. We had had a go at them in the second half but we did sit back with about 15 to go. If we had lost I am sure we would all have been moaning about not being professional enough and seeing out what we had. Its only when the full consequences were known that that everyone becomes an expert and calls it a bad result.

If Germany had done what they would normally have done, and won in Ireland instead of losing, then again we would all have been calling it a great result to get a draw in Ireland, give us the upper hand over them and make it to the play offs.

 

 

 

People being happy with a draw is why we dont qualify. Anyone with any ambition goes into that match knowig we are capeable of winning and should be winning. I was totally deflated after the game, so dissapointed that strachan played fot a draw!

[Dalgety Bay TA]

5 hours ago, Kirk said:

People being happy with a draw is why we dont qualify. Anyone with any ambition goes into that match knowig we are capeable of winning and should be winning. I was totally deflated after the game, so dissapointed that strachan played fot a draw!

FFS, we didn't PLAY for a draw, we SETTLED for a draw with 15-20 to go. Of course we started the match trying to win. However I will maintain again that taking the draw, rather than going all out for the win and possibly losing the game in the last 15-20 was the smart thing to do. At the time given the group as it stood.

[Ally boy 69]

Don't see anyone better out there who would actually want the job.....said at time of his appt give him 5 years and judge him as he was the overwhelming choice of the fans.....chopping and changing manager hasn't worked look at NI and Wales who stuck by managers after a disappointing first campaign......let's all get behind him and the team and we can have a really good go at qualifying ?☝

[Kirk]

2 hours ago, Dalgety Bay TA said:

FFS, we didn't PLAY for a draw, we SETTLED for a draw with 15-20 to go. Of course we started the match trying to win. However I will maintain again that taking the draw, rather than going all out for the win and possibly losing the game in the last 15-20 was the smart thing to do. At the time given the group as it stood.

We were wasting time as soon as we got the equaliser. We should habe still went for the win, as I said this is the problem. The mentality that a draw is ok against a poor team like Ireland is the reason we will be doing all this summer. The fact that fans accept it is the reason we will continue to be shite

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Kirk said:

We were wasting time as soon as we got the equaliser. We should habe still went for the win, as I said this is the problem. The mentality that a draw is ok against a poor team like Ireland is the reason we will be doing all this summer. The fact that fans accept it is the reason we will continue to be shite

Ireland are better than Scotland. That is why they are in EURO 2016 and we are not. It's not rocket surgery.

[MikeyGC]

In my opinion the draw against Ireland wasn't a bad result but it wasn't a good one either. It still left the door open for them but a win against Georgia away should have been enough to eliminate Ireland from the conversation of qualification. Ultimately in my opinion we scored a lucky deflected goal and after that didn't really create much chances. Looking back obviously it wasn't a good result but at the time it didn't feel like a disaster. 

[Chesney Hawkes TA]

The four performances against Ireland and Georgia, the two teams in the group closest to us in ability, were decidedly average.  On the balance of play, all four of those games could have been draws.  So we actually did well to get seven points out of those games when we could have had no complaints if we'd taken four points.

We had some good results in the last campaign but we are an average at best team that has no players of genuine quality so we finished where we deserved. I don't see an alternative option to the current manager making much of a difference to that.

[bonny78]

4 hours ago, Chesney Hawkes TA said:

The four performances against Ireland and Georgia, the two teams in the group closest to us in ability, were decidedly average.  On the balance of play, all four of those games could have been draws.  So we actually did well to get seven points out of those games when we could have had no complaints if we'd taken four points.

We had some good results in the last campaign but we are an average at best team that has no players of genuine quality so we finished where we deserved. I don't see an alternative option to the current manager making much of a difference to that.

the home match v Georgia we battered them.    

[Orraloon]

37 minutes ago, bonny78 said:

the home match v Georgia we battered them.    

Aye, 1-0. 

[Kirk]

7 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Ireland are better than Scotland. That is why they are in EURO 2016 and we are not. It's not rocket surgery.

No they are not. This is why we lose. No confidence

[Orraloon]

11 minutes ago, Kirk said:

No they are not. This is why we lose. No confidence

I wisnae playing in that game.

[bonny78]

48 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, 1-0. 

battered them without scoring.   

[Boynze]

our record in the last 15 - 20 years suggests the manager is not the issue, the quality of players available and their mentality are.

[vanderark14]

On 17 May 2016 at 8:05 PM, Barney Rubble said:

You weren't coming out near to me then. I'll admit I was in the minority that weekend - but my view then (and now) was that when we have the chance to eliminate someone definitively.....................Scotland will play for the draw.

And that's what happened. What then happened v Georgia proved that instinct to be correct.

That's the mentality that has to be shown the door - and not necessarily Gordon Strachan.

Again, I completely agree with this. After the Ireland away game I was hacked off with the performance and the result.

can you see Strachan showing the mentality the door? I don't see any evidence of it in his first campaign