Return of Yermaw Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Orraloon said: Interesting. http://archive.is/WJE2J its no coincidence those that label the independence referendum "nasty and divisive" are nasty and divisive persons themselves that continue to write nasty and divisive drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said: its no coincidence those that label the independence referendum "nasty and divisive" are nasty and divisive persons themselves that continue to write nasty and divisive drivel. You don't think the independence referendum was nasty and divisive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McDange Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Where's Jim? Should he not be doing a tour with a ginger crate about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 5 minutes ago, aaid said: Ah, the poor old fishermen - like this guy http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farages-brexit-flotilla-boat-involved-in-63-million-fishing-fraud-a7083231.html or this guy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/news/11288970/Fishing-skipper-fined-over-multi-million-pound-black-fish-scam-buys-Scotlands-most-expensive-house.html There are fisherman who have suffered due the UK Government handing our waters over to Europe. the finger always seems to be pointing at only Europe though instead of the UK and even the greed of some fisherman. the fisherman on the Thames this week are not fighting for their lives and none of them are short of a £. Many fisherman in my home town and surrounding area suffered but those on the Thames aren't in that category IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Scunnered said: You don't think the independence referendum was nasty and divisive? You speak for yourself ya bawbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 28 minutes ago, Scunnered said: You don't think the independence referendum was nasty and divisive? Compared to other countries struggles for independence... No, definitely not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Och Aye said: Compared to other countries struggles for independence... No, definitely not. It's not really comparable though is it? Other countries seek independence for reasons of oppression or colonisation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 33 minutes ago, aaid said: Ah, the poor old fishermen - like this guy http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/farages-brexit-flotilla-boat-involved-in-63-million-fishing-fraud-a7083231.html or this guy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/news/11288970/Fishing-skipper-fined-over-multi-million-pound-black-fish-scam-buys-Scotlands-most-expensive-house.html Thats the pealagic lads there are very few of them the white fish and prawn lads on the other had have been hugely effected i cant understand why ernie took the cristina s down to the protest as they have it sweet, a brexit would cause a overhaul in the quota system that they would not want,,, its a very complicated topic but i will try and touch on part of it,,before if there were low stocks of certain fish the flexibility there was enabled them to jump into another fisheries just loke when the herring stocks were low and they closed the whole lot down,, everyone rigged up for the whitefish,,,,make no mistake,, the family owned fishing vessels have been hammered by the CFP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 (edited) I'm no expert but wasn't there over fishing before the EU quotas came in? If things were left as they were our surrounding seas could have been empty by now. Edited June 17, 2016 by Och Aye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och Aye Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 8 minutes ago, Scunnered said: It's not really comparable though is it? Other countries seek independence for reasons of oppression or colonisation. Scotland didnt democratically vote to give up its independence and the vast majority of her citizens were against it. So I wouldn't rule out calling it colonisation . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 1 hour ago, hampden_loon2878 said: thats a local snp Aberdeenshire councillor resigned due the the fact that the snp does not represent the views of many of their voters,, i totally agree with him and i worry that this stance has driven away snp voters,, i cant for the life of me understand why the snp havent put out a few "token" MSP's or MP's for that matter who support brexit,,, Elidgh whiteford is a fantastic MP for banff and buchan and i know she has her reservations about the EU,, it would have been a good move for her to come out for brexit,,, The SNP are at pains to maintain a united front on almost all issues, no matter how unrealistic it might seem. They currently have over a hundred thousand members; there must be some Eurosceptics amongst them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 55 minutes ago, Scunnered said: You don't think the independence referendum was nasty and divisive? pre-referendum (which is what most commentators mean) not in the slightest. Rabble rousing at worst. I didn't certainly come across anything from the whole time in Glasgow and this was with both YES and NO campaigning regularly round the area. Yet those who I can only assume were no where near the campaigning or perhaps Scotland trot this out regularly. Ignoring social media which can be interpreted a number of ways but essentially the domain of the key board warrior and the permanently offended (on whatever issue), looking at incidents: - a few eggs at an isolated figure of Jim Murphy on his soap (Irn Bru box) who clearly was looking for a more vitriolic response. he tried again with Izzard at the election and helped orchestrate a better reponse - Miliband in Edinburgh shouted down by a few protestors in St James (?) Mall. rabble. - Labour MPs being bet by a guy on rik shaw playing the Imperial Death March - Salmond's motorcave chased after by a motorbike (I understand). Have I missed any other incident that could be construed as nasty? and as for families and friends falling out - again, not in my experience but according to commentators this was happening all over. The one real nasty issue happened on George Square after the referendum but as said, this is not what is being referred to when comparisons are made at this point - and we of course know the underlying reason behind George Square incidents......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I would add that maybe you and some others did find it nasty and divisive. I can only speak from my own experience and this was from Glasgow. I would suggest all the commentators could not cite a nasty experience they personally encountered and have taken their "nasty" assessment from scouring those they follow on social media which may (or may not) include the likes of JK Rowling, Murphy, Michelle Mone etc...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said: - Labour MPs being bet by a guy on rik shaw playing the Imperial Death March That was one of the funniest bits of the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weekevie04 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Orraloon said: There are a whole load of folk who haven't even decided if they will bother voting or not yet. Loads of them won't decide until polling day and the decision may well be weather dependent. Very good point. I agree and I know a few who have openly said so. One said he'll decide how he feels on the day which way to vote - sat through debates and he is genuinely undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 32 minutes ago, Orraloon said: That was one of the funniest bits of the referendum. absolutely one of the highlights, I emailed my kids and told them to keep a hold of the video as a reminder that event one guy on a rickshaw playing Star Wars music can hold the establishment and the party machine to account. The look on those London Labour luvvies were a joy to behold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 23 minutes ago, weekevie04 said: Very good point. I agree and I know a few who have openly said so. One said he'll decide how he feels on the day which way to vote - sat through debates and he is genuinely undecided. Best chance Leave has is the apathy of those in the remain camp. Whatever you think about Bettertogether, they did mobilise their vote well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 56 minutes ago, Orraloon said: That was one of the funniest bits of the referendum. It was indeedy! He should have left it as a once off right enough, he's done it another couple of times since and it was cringey as feck. The initial one on Buchanan street was genius though and summed up Glasgow perfectly... Full of nutters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 59 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said: I would add that maybe you and some others did find it nasty and divisive. I can only speak from my own experience and this was from Glasgow. I would suggest all the commentators could not cite a nasty experience they personally encountered and have taken their "nasty" assessment from scouring those they follow on social media which may (or may not) include the likes of JK Rowling, Murphy, Michelle Mone etc...... My Indy ref was relatively quiet as well, only two incidents that were noteworthy and not really worth repeating and I was out 3-4 nights a week, Glasgow as well. The fallout since has been much worse right enough, I know plenty who have fell out with friends and family, although not myself cos I'm luverly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Hardly any fall outs at all Do not know anyone that has fallen out with friends or family Most folk that voted No said they voted Yes anyway whenever it comes up (my cousin for one the rat) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartandon Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 4 hours ago, Orraloon said: That was one of the funniest bits of the referendum. Bow down before your imperial masters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Orraloon said: Interesting. http://archive.is/WJE2J If Allan Massie comes out for independence we might as well start printing the Scottish passports! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Return of Yermaw Posted June 18, 2016 Share Posted June 18, 2016 13 hours ago, Scunnered said: My Indy ref was relatively quiet as well, only two incidents that were noteworthy and not really worth repeating and I was out 3-4 nights a week, Glasgow as well. The fallout since has been much worse right enough, I know plenty who have fell out with friends and family, although not myself cos I'm luverly. agreed. People seem more heated now when talking about Indy2 or SNP at Westminster following May elections (particularly me on the latter when I got a dismissive response from my MP when I criticised him and the party for pocketing the MP pay rise within weeks of arriving in Parliament. Not the fresh face of UK politics they were suggesting). But the independence referendum in itself was not nasty and divisive. I know some would like to think that and hope by saying it often enough that will become the accepted view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Sturgeon now saying indyref 2 is on the table if there's a Brexit... http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14566301.Nicola_Sturgeon___If_Scotland_is_pulled_out_of_the_EU_against_our_will_then_indyref2_is_back_on_the_table_/#comments-anchor Not a popular decision going by the comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Toepoke said: Sturgeon now saying indyref 2 is on the table if there's a Brexit... http://m.heraldscotland.com/news/14566301.Nicola_Sturgeon___If_Scotland_is_pulled_out_of_the_EU_against_our_will_then_indyref2_is_back_on_the_table_/#comments-anchor Not a popular decision going by the comments! She also appears to have ignored Marco Biagi's good article in The National which i think is spot on and below Have to admit that Sturgeon has really irked me in the last 3 weeks with some of her remarks although i realise some have been embellished by the media EVERYONE in life is allowed to do a few monumentally stupid things. We all make mistakes. Things that seemed like good ideas at the time. Endowment mortgages, Cleggmania, bootcut jeans. If your life quota of ill-advised choices is already exhausted, whatever you do don’t be a Scottish independence supporter feeling an urge to vote Leave in the hope of a second indyref. But if you are one of those creatures, you need to face a simple fact: a second referendum just isn’t going to happen after Brexit. It’s so tempting to think the Scottish electorate will have a sudden and massive change of heart about independence. If that happens my shock will be overtaken by my joy. But we all have to face the harsh reality that there is no actual evidence that this will happen. Think back to October 2012. A Panelbase poll reported 56 per cent of Scots “quite” or “very” likely to vote for independence, if they felt the 2015 General Election would return a Tory-led government. Almost four years on and we have that Conservative government but we don’t have that majority for independence. What if following that poll the SNP had committed to another snap referendum in the event of a Conservative government? Today those of us who support independence would be facing disaster. As we know there was no magic overnight revolution in independence support. There was a bounce, not a surge. Nicola Sturgeon would have spent a year calling on former Labour voters to back Yes, arguing the promise made to them that they could vote No for a less Conservative UK had not been delivered and so circumstances had changed sufficiently to revisit the question of independence. It would have been a desperate strategy and a huge gamble. A stake as precious as the prospect of your country’s independence is not thrown onto the table lightly. Certainly not when the best in your hand is a pair of fives. Surely – surely – if the UK leaves the EU that changes the circumstances under which the No vote was won? Yes, it does. A second independence referendum could on that basis be justified and rendered legitimate. But that doesn’t mean it’s any more winnable. Indeed, it would be less so. The same forces that gathered for the No campaign in 2014 would muster their strength again, drawing on the same networks and resources. But they would have a whole new argument they could deploy. Instead of rehashing the dismal campaign of 2014, they would simply ask one question of the Scottish public. Would you rather be part of Europe or part of Britain? Framed like that the answer would be an overwhelming second No. And that would be it. The independence campaign would be thrown into disarray and disunity. Recriminations would fly. There would be no need to quibble over how long a generation is because the time before this and any subsequent referendum would be forever. The SNP today dominates Scottish politics. The pro-independence Greens are also on the rise. We have an opportunity to build and entrench support for independence. The quickest way for all of that to collapse is a failed second independence referendum. Our opponents long for us to be so catastrophically reckless as to hold one and lose. It is literally the only realistic path they have to win back power in Scotland in the foreseeable future. If we are to win, we need an understanding between the grassroots and elected leaderships of the Yes parties. That those great assembled ranks of activists who want independence not tomorrow but today will not press leaders to follow a Leave vote in the EU referendum with a second vote on independence. But the quid pro quo is that those leaders must use their resources to develop the case for independence and work with the grassroots so that there will be that second vote, and it will be won. This needs trust on all sides. But it has to happen. We need to reach out to those who voted No and better understand them – especially those who share the progressive ideals of the Yes movement but were left cold by our arguments last time round. EU membership was just one small part of a complex debate that encompassed questions of industry, currency, public finances, pensions, and many more. On all of these we need to examine our arguments and develop our case. If Brexit defies all expectations and does deeply change minds, the Yes movement should be ready. But if and when it doesn’t, we shouldn’t be foolish. The second referendum will be won if it arises from the demands not of impatient Yes activists wanting a quick rerun, but the demands of hundreds of thousands of No voters that have converted and want to throw their support behind national independence. Those who have the means to hold a second referendum are wise enough to know this. Everyone else who supports independence has to be wise enough to realise they are right Edited June 19, 2016 by Ally Bongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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