Veggies / Vegans

[Lamia]

[thplinth]

I have eaten a few of them.

[Ormond]

Never been a huge meat eater. I do like a fair few processed meats though. Sausage and hams are my thing. Used to love bacon but as it's nigh on impossible to get "our" type of bacon over here I've been forced to cut that out. I'd like to explore the benefits of pulses and beans more like Adam has already mentioned and see if I can transform them into taste so I can enjoy and take to them better.. As I age I'd like to enhance my veg intake and decrease my meat. I don't think I could ever go without meat altogether. Nor would I have the willpower to either.

[Angus_Young]

Never been a huge meat eater. I do like a fair few processed meats though. Sausage and hams are my thing. Used to love bacon but as it's nigh on impossible to get "our" type of bacon over here I've been forced to cut that out. I'd like to explore the benefits of pulses and beans more like Adam has already mentioned and see if I can transform them into taste so I can enjoy and take to them better.. As I age I'd like to enhance my veg intake and decrease my meat. I don't think I could ever go without meat altogether. Nor would I have the willpower to either.

We do a spicy pork and bean casserole at work quite often, but occasionally just do it as a bean casserole as a couple of the lads prefer not to eat meat all the time. Tasty as hell, very easy to make and ridiculously cheap.

[Orraloon]

Well if the lion ate tofu etc and a balanced non meat diet do you think it would become 'sick'? Maybe weak and feeble or under par would be fairer descriptions. The point is you cant put diesel in a petrol and expect no bodily repercussions. It is not what you think you should eat rather what your body has evolved to eat that matters.

The Cat family (whether lions or domestic cats) are a bit different, in that they must eat meat or die. Their body chemistry means that they can't get essential vitamins, like Vitamin A and Niacin, without eating meat products. Humans and other animals can convert non meat products into these essential vitamins inside our own bodies. This is why you must feed cats meat products (or they can go out and find their own) but you can feed dogs any old shyte.

I would agree that humans and dogs probably don't function to their full potential without meat products though. And they also tend to lose their sense of humour.

[Ta Ta]

Well if the lion ate tofu etc and a balanced non meat diet do you think it would become 'sick'? Maybe weak and feeble or under par would be fairer descriptions. The point is you cant put diesel in a petrol and expect no bodily repercussions. It is not what you think you should eat rather what your body has evolved to eat that matters.

The point is though we are not carnivores, we are omnivores. Our bodies have evolved to handle a wide variety of foodstuffs. Also, as we evolved, meat would have been a much smaller part of our diets than it is now when it meant hunting for your food.

I have been vegetarian since 1984. Since then, I have run marathons, climbed mountains and taken part in activities involving endurance and stamina. I have never noticed any 'bodily repercussions'

The primary reason for becoming vegetarian was that I decided I could live me life without the need for other creatures being killed. In addition, I didn't agree with the way food was produced, both the way animals were treated through farming practices and how the meat was produced by using things like growth hormones.

[McExpat]

10th year as a vegetarian, approx 8 years vegan. One of the best decisions I ever made, only wish I had made it sooner!

I made my decision for ethical reasons, I simply don't think any other creature should suffer and be killed for a meal.

Health and evironmental reasons came next for me.

I still eat like a king at home, at the office (personal vegan chef) and when out at restaurants, enjoying my food more than ever, not just from the satisfaction I get from the thoughts and feelings derived from eating healthy and cruelty free brings but also on discovering veg tastes so much better than meat, once you get over the conditioning you've experienced suggesting otherwise.

I still eat all my fav cuisine- Italian, Chinese, Thai, Indian, Mexican. I went from liking zero vegetables to loving nearly all of them. Feel better for it, more energy, more mental clarity and requiring much less sleep.

The biggest surprise for me on becoming veggie / vegan has been the frequent 'macho man' displays and responses I've encountered from a number of idiotic males, who seem to think eating meat is 'tough', an attempt at a laughable demonstration of a tough man including change of voice / tonality and flexing of their arms or pointing to their mouth usually accompanies a comment / roar such as "I'm a meat eater and always will be" or "we're top of the food chain and I'm taking advantage of it" ironically none of these fools could punch their way out a wet paper bag!

Further adding to the irony, some of the strongest, toughest, fittest men on earth are veggie / vegan!

Carl Lewis, Mike Tyson, David Haye, Stu Mittleman, Patrik Baboumian and a number of UFC / MMA fighters, amongst many others. Typing 'vegan body builder' or similar into google will bring up some impressive, and for some surprising, results.

Edited January 6, 2016 by McExpat

[McExpat]

The next biggest surprise came in the form of the amount of idiots I've encountered who suddenly seem to think they are nutrition experts, when you mention being vegetarian / vegan, once again the irony is plentiful as I only ever hear such comments from people that are clueless when it comes to nutrition! Often evident by the physical state they are in or the ailments and disease they are suffering from!

[thplinth]

Funny how I am surrounded by people being told to cut down on their red meat consumption rather than vegetables cos it is making them ill.

No doubt they were also told to cut out saturated fats and replace them with carbs (especially sugar). And to replace butter and lard with vegetable oils.

[thplinth]

The point is though we are not carnivores, we are omnivores. Our bodies have evolved to handle a wide variety of foodstuffs. Also, as we evolved, meat would have been a much smaller part of our diets than it is now when it meant hunting for your food.

From an evolutionary view point agriculture as we know it has only appeared very recently. For most of our evolutionary past it did not exist. I think it is likely therefore that meat would have been the major component of our diets for a very long time perhaps the sole component for long stretches (during winters). Some well documented hunter gatherer populations have a very high meat content and i think that indicates we will have been the same ourselves in the past.

[Kirk]

The next biggest surprise came in the form of the amount of idiots I've encountered who suddenly seem to think they are nutrition experts, when you mention being vegetarian / vegan, once again the irony is plentiful as I only ever hear such comments from people that are clueless when it comes to nutrition! Often evident by the physical state they are in or the ailments and disease they are suffering from!

Take it you are a soooper dooooper expert?

[adamntg]

From an evolutionary view point agriculture as we know it has only appeared very recently. For most of our evolutionary past it did not exist. I think it is likely therefore that meat would have been the major component of our diets for a very long time perhaps the sole component for long stretches (during winters). Some well documented hunter gatherer populations have a very high meat content and i think that indicates we will have been the same ourselves in the past.

Perhaps. There are 354 million vegetarians in India, which suggests to me that the western meat based diet is cultural rather evolutionary.

We can eat meat, although we have to cook it. We don't have to.

[thplinth]

Lots of explorers and hunters lived for months and months on a pemmican diet and speak very highly of it. I wonder how many folk have actually tried eating a high fat / low carb diet. I have and it is astonishing how good you feel. It is just hard to maintain as I was brought up eating a shit load of carbs.

[derekfaejapan]

Lots of explorers and hunters lived for months and months on a pemmican diet and speak very highly of it. I wonder how many folk have actually tried eating a high fat / low carb diet. I have and it is astonishing how good you feel. It is just hard to maintain as I was brought up eating a shit load of carbs.

What was a few days typical eating when you were doing this?

[thplinth]

What was a few days typical eating when you were doing this?

No I have done it for months at a time. But it takes about three days for your body to switch.

I don't want to get all Gillian McKeach here but one thing you will note is you hardly need to use toilet paper when on this regime!

You also don't get hungry like you do now. You wont believe that but it is true.

You also feel different mentally.

As I say it amazed me and so I regularly keep dipping back into it. If I could quit bread I'd be basically eating like that all the time.

[Orraloon]

Perhaps. There are 354 million vegetarians in India, which suggests to me that the western meat based diet is cultural rather evolutionary.

We can eat meat, although we have to cook it. We don't have to.

Could it not be that the Indian diet is "cultural rather than evolutionary"?

We don't "have to" cook meat to eat it. We can, and a lot of people do, eat raw meat. Not something I would recommend personally though.

[Parklife]

No I have done it for months at a time. But it takes about three days for your body to switch.

I don't want to get all Gillian McKeach here but one thing you will note is you hardly need to use toilet paper when on this regime!

You also don't get hungry like you do now. You wont believe that but it is true.

You also feel different mentally.

As I say it amazed me and so I regularly keep dipping back into it. If I could quit bread I'd be basically eating like that all the time.

I'd suggest that the fullness you feel on your diet is more to do with increased protein consumption, rather than increased fats. Many studies have shown high protein diets are good for weight loss due to the satiety value of protein.

Have you tried keeping protein the same on both diets?

[DonnyTJS]

The Hindu view on universal divinity certainly makes Indian vegetarianism cultural. As has been said, biologically we are omnivores, just look at our dentition, that can't digest cellulose - compare the human appendix to that of a rabbit. Most geographical diets are cultural, I would imagine, but it's interesting that various human populations appear to be lactose intolerant.

It's obviously perfectly possible to be a healthy vegetarian just as it is to be a healthy omnivore; it's just a matter of getting the mix right. When I first went to uni I lived on nowt but beans on toast and had gone down with scurvy but the end of the first term...

[phart]

The primary reason for becoming vegetarian was that I decided I could live me life without the need for other creatures being killed. In addition, I didn't agree with the way food was produced, both the way animals were treated through farming practices and how the meat was produced by using things like growth hormones.

Animals die in the production of energy, in building houses etc. I'm not knocking an attempt to save other species/mitigate your imprint on the world., however if you think you're living a life that doesn't harm animals or their habitat then you're wrong.

[phart]

If you're not eating animals, but using mobile phones where huge mining operations displace the habitat of millions of species , you're not ethical you're making an identity claim.

EDIT: You'll not want them killed to eat them which is part of nature, but you'll let them killed to make toys/gadgets.

Edited January 6, 2016 by phart

[Orraloon]

From an evolutionary view point agriculture as we know it has only appeared very recently. For most of our evolutionary past it did not exist. I think it is likely therefore that meat would have been the major component of our diets for a very long time perhaps the sole component for long stretches (during winters). Some well documented hunter gatherer populations have a very high meat content and i think that indicates we will have been the same ourselves in the past.

I think some folk are more capable of changing to a meat free diet than others. We are all genetically slightly different to each other. Some folk feel positively ill when they stop eating meat. Others can do it without feeling any noticeable difference. I am always amazed at how complex the human system is. A hugely complex system of 1000s and 1000s of different chemical reactions. Probably nobody on the planet fully understands them all. We understand some of them better than others.

If we take, for example, one of the simpler ones - the vitamin A (retinol) cycle which I mentioned earlier. Humans get their retinol from two main sources, animal products (ie the animal has already made the retinol for us - "no point owning a coo and making your own retinol") and beta carotene. We get carotene mainly from a variety of vegetables. Humans have an enzyme which can convert carotene to retinol. Cats can't do this, which is one of the reasons they must eat other animals. Some humans are better adaptable to getting all their retinol from carotene than others. The ones who are not so good at it are probably more efficient if they continue eating meat. But, unlike cats, they won't die if they don't.

The retinol cycle is just one of many 1000s of chemical reactions which could be affected by not eating meat. Some them will hardly have been studied at all, or maybe not even know about yet.

I am sticking to my balanced diet just in case.

[thplinth]

I'd suggest that the fullness you feel on your diet is more to do with increased protein consumption, rather than increased fats. Many studies have shown high protein diets are good for weight loss due to the satiety value of protein.

Have you tried keeping protein the same on both diets?

The protein actually stays the same.

Say if before it was

10% Fat

20% Protein

70% Carbs

Then after it is inverted

10% Carbs

20% Protein

70% Fat

I understand your point about protein but it is equally true of fat maybe more so as it is very energy dense. There is no more filling breakfast IMHO than bacon and eggs for this reason.

[phart]

Further adding to the irony, some of the strongest, toughest, fittest men on earth are veggie / vegan!

Carl Lewis, Mike Tyson, David Haye, Stu Mittleman, Patrik Baboumian and a number of UFC / MMA fighters, amongst many others. Typing 'vegan body builder' or similar into google will bring up some impressive, and for some surprising, results.

David Haye only went vegetarian after his career, both the diaz brothers are vegan though and have been for ages (MMA fighters) probably two of the toughest and fittest mixed martial artists in UFC history. Plus competent triathletes.

[phart]

From an evolutionary view point agriculture as we know it has only appeared very recently. For most of our evolutionary past it did not exist. I think it is likely therefore that meat would have been the major component of our diets for a very long time perhaps the sole component for long stretches (during winters). Some well documented hunter gatherer populations have a very high meat content and i think that indicates we will have been the same ourselves in the past.

Removing pastures and replacing them arable land for production of soya or another alternative would absolutely destroy the ecosystem of the areas, killing off numerous species in the area.

It's so difficult to live ethically. Trust me i've tried.

[thplinth]

Removing pastures and replacing them arable land for production of soya or another alternative would absolutely destroy the ecosystem of the areas, killing off numerous species in the area.

It's so difficult to live ethically. Trust me i've tried.

I am ok with killing animals for food. It is how they lived up to that point that troubles me.

When you see these gross plump chickens in the supermarkets with the burns on their legs due to them being unable to support their own weight and having to sit in a pool of chicken urine swilling around the bottom of the cages you've got to think this is not good. Humans are pretty horrible ba$tards when it comes to animals. Like I say if the aliens ask my opinion its tattibobo time for humanity.