Veggies / Vegans

[Lamia]

Take it you are a soooper dooooper expert?

I don't see him claiming to be.

[Lamia]

If you're not eating animals, but using mobile phones where huge mining operations displace the habitat of millions of species , you're not ethical you're making an identity claim.

EDIT: You'll not want them killed to eat them which is part of nature, but you'll let them killed to make toys/gadgets.

I take it you didn't read my post. Or maybe you think we should all start bullfighting and big game hunting because we might as well if we eat meat.

[phart]

I take it you didn't read my post. Or maybe you think we should all start bullfighting and big game hunting because we might as well if we eat meat.

No i read it, but your point is irrelevant and poorly thought out. What specifically does it have to do with being ethical in acquiring food, but not in acquiring gadgets?

No I don't think we should start bullfighting or big game hunting, whatever gave you that idea?

Edited January 6, 2016 by phart

[adamntg]

No i read it, but your point is irrelevant and poorly thought out. What specifically does it have to do with being ethical in acquiring food, but not in acquiring gadgets?

No I don't think we should start bullfighting or big game hunting, whatever gave you that idea?

The implication that unless you live a completely blame-free life then there's no point in even trying? That because you endorse one unethical practice you may as well endorse them all?

[phart]

The implication that unless you live a completely blame-free life then there's no point in even trying? That because you endorse one unethical practice you may as well endorse them all?

Nope, that's not my intended implication at all.

"Ethically" sourcing food while unethically sourcing "amusements" might not be ethical, if we're speaking about Ethics as it;s understood philosphically.

Ethically sourcing a need while unethically sourcing a want. the implications of that.

Folk that have known me on the board know i try and "ethically" source everything, from mobile phones to clothes. It's impossible to do so though. Be aware of that and make identity claims commensurate with it.

[phart]

If you think it's unethical to source animals for food surely it's unethical to source them for mobile phones. Therefore you're not a vegetarian for ethical reasons, as you're happy with them dying for an iphone6/samsung galaxy.

Just ill-thought out moralizing, you're not being ethical. Unless you're saying it's wrong for them to be food, but it's cool if they just lie there rotting.

[adamntg]

So it's ok to unethically source your food because you need to eat as long as you ethically source your mobile because you don't need to play Candy Crush?

[phart]

So it's ok to unethically source your food because you need to eat as long as you ethically source your mobile because you don't need to play Candy Crush?

Well in ethics it's generally regarded as not OK to do something unethical, it's the definition of the word afterall. So that would be a no...obviously, it is after all UNethical.

Why do you keep rewriting my words and changing the meanings. Nope i never said that. here's what i said.

"If you think it's unethical to source animals for food surely it's unethical to source them for mobile phones. Therefore you're not a vegetarian for ethical reasons, as you're happy with them dying for an iphone6/samsung galaxy."

Edited January 6, 2016 by phart

[adamntg]

If you think it's unethical to source animals for food surely it's unethical to source them for mobile phones. Therefore you're not a vegetarian for ethical reasons, as you're happy with them dying for an iphone6/samsung galaxy.

Just ill-thought out moralizing, you're not being ethical. Unless you're saying it's wrong for them to be food, but it's cool if they just lie there rotting.

I kill animals every day by driving my car, whether they're flies on the windscreen, people dying slowly from pollution or animals whose habitat is or will be destroyed by global warming. I don't *need* to drive a car, but it's pretty convenient.

Unless you decide to live like a Buddhist monk, you're going to cause damage to other beings. The only question is the extent, and what measures are reasonable and practical to take to reduce your footprint as much as possible.

[phart]

I kill animals every day by driving my car, whether they're flies on the windscreen, people dying slowly from pollution or animals whose habitat is or will be destroyed by global warming. I don't *need* to drive a car, but it's pretty convenient.

Unless you decide to live like a Buddhist monk, you're going to cause damage to other beings. The only question is the extent, and what measures are reasonable and practical to take to reduce your footprint as much as possible.

I wrote this earlier today

Folk that have known me on the board know i try and "ethically" source everything, from mobile phones to clothes. It's impossible to do so though. Be aware of that and make identity claims commensurate with it.

So i know this.

Edited January 6, 2016 by phart

[phart]

Of course trying to get someone out of an identity claim is almost impossible.

[Orraloon]

I kill animals every day by driving my car, whether they're flies on the windscreen, people dying slowly from pollution or animals whose habitat is or will be destroyed by global warming. I don't *need* to drive a car, but it's pretty convenient.

Unless you decide to live like a Buddhist monk, you're going to cause damage to other beings. The only question is the extent, and what measures are reasonable and practical to take to reduce your footprint as much as possible.

Wow, I'm starting to think that vegetarianism might have an affect on people's ability to read?

Edited January 6, 2016 by Orraloon

[phart]

I'm not questioning the "good" done by the act of vegetarianism, it's great. However don't go on about doing it for "ethics" if you're happy to go out and buy a toy which manufacture necessitates the need for large wholesale slaughter of animals, via direct culling or habitat destruction.

You're only as ethical as convenience allows.

It's why i always mention when talking about it, i sometimes kill spiders so i have no right to talk about animal rights etc. I've even mentioned it 3 times on the new board already, much more than your vege comments

http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=4101&page=7#entry131083

http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=4693&page=10#entry153664

[Lamia]

No i read it, but your point is irrelevant and poorly thought out. What specifically does it have to do with being ethical in acquiring food, but not in acquiring gadgets?

No I don't think we should start bullfighting or big game hunting, whatever gave you that idea?

You clearly didn't get the point.

[phart]

You clearly didn't get the point.

Well i did ask you to explain it to me and you haven't done it. So that's two of us unable to communicate what the point was.

[adamntg]

Wow, I'm starting to think that vegetarianism might have an affect on people's ability to read?

And the conclusion I reached was that I could easily become vegetarian, so I did. No more, no less.

[Orraloon]

And the conclusion I reached was that I could easily become vegetarian, so I did. No more, no less.

That's pretty good. Maybe the loss of sense of humour thing doesn't affect everybody?

[sbcmfc]

Why do animals die making mobile phones?

:?:

If you think about where meat comes from, and probably if you saw where it came from it would put you off. It occasionally crosses my mind, but isn't enough to put me off personally.

Can understand why people would go Vege on that basis alone though.

Perhaps more conscience than ethics.

There's a difference between animals being killed as an indirect result of a purchase, and actually eating the thing.

[phart]

There's a difference between animals being killed as an indirect result of a purchase, and actually eating the thing.

have you ever seen a mine? Seen how they are made? What they do to water supplies, habitat etc?

there's no difference to the dead animal :-))

[sbcmfc]

have you ever seen a mine? Seen how they are made? What they do to water supplies, habitat etc?

there's no difference to the dead animal :-))

I've never heard of a phone mine.

I'm not being obtuse here, I could do with being educated. What goes in phones that gets mined?

[phart]

I've never heard of a phone mine.

I'm not being obtuse here, I could do with being educated. What goes in phones that gets mined?

Major Metals Content of Mobile Phones

Copper (Cu)

49.0%

Zinc (Zn)

21.8%

Iron (Fe)

11.6%

Nickel (Ni)

6.5%

Aluminum (Al)

5.5%

Lead (Pb)

1.9%

Tin (Sn)

1.7%

Silver (Ag)

1.5%

Chromium (Cr)

0.5%

Gold (Au)

0.1%

Palladium (Pd)

trace

[Lamia]

Well i did ask you to explain it to me and you haven't done it. So that's two of us unable to communicate what the point was.

It had subsequently been explained so I didn't think I needed to do it again

[phart]

That's fine, still don't know what it is though. or how it is relevant to my post. I guess it's easier to say it's been explained rather than explain it. Anyway enough circular argumments for me today.

[Lamia]

That's fine, still don't know what it is though. or how it is relevant to my post. I guess it's easier to say it's been explained rather than explain it. Anyway enough circular argumments for me today.

I guess it is easier to ignore that it was explained and its relevance than to actually read the thread and acknowledge it.

[phart]

I guess it is easier to ignore that it was explained and its relevance than to actually read the thread and acknowledge it.

So i'm not allowed to not understand the explanation? Either i understand it or i get to ask no questions? just accusations of ignoring it. Saying i'm not acknowledging it? I'm saying I don't understand your point, and you're obtusely refusing to explain it. Probably because it isn't a very good one, and it's much easier to just be a petulant child about it.

absolutely pointless trying to have a honest dialogue.