ParisInAKilt Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Greece hasn't hit rock bottom either. Can't be far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Can't be far off. It's going to get a lot worse and even then it won't be nearly as bad as many countries across the globe. it's all relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 It's going to get a lot worse and even then it won't be nearly as bad as many countries across the globe. it's all relative. That's true about it being relative to other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 if we had a referendum in the UK about more or less austerity, more would win. There is no doubt about that, in my mind. Could be argued that the General Election was the very thing and that the UK did indeed vote in more austerity please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Agreed but the UK hasn't hit rock bottom like Greece has. Would still be surprised if YES wins. There are probably a lot of shy yes voters who are actually quite comfortably with what they have and don't want to change anything. Its only the nasty noisy no voters that you hear on the internet. In the end, as with all referenda, the result will be what big business wants the result to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Speaking to my mate, he says it'll be a couple of percent either way. His thinking is basically Greece is fecked, feck the german system, and watch out it's going to happen elsewhere too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 It could actually be much worse for Greece is they vote Yes at this point in time Tsipras & Varoufakis have already said they will resign as they wont sign up to the terms of the deal This means another election with Golden Dawn hovering in the background You could actually have a civil war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 It could actually be much worse for Greece is they vote Yes at this point in time Tsipras & Varoufakis have already said they will resign as they wont sign up to the terms of the deal This means another election with Golden Dawn hovering in the background You could actually have a civil war Looking at the last opinion poll in Greece: Syriza - 38.6% (+2.3% on Election) New Democracy - 25.4% (-2.4%) Golden Dawn - 6.3% (N/C) Potami - 6.3% (+0.2%) Communist - 6.1% (+0.6%) Others - 17.3% (-0.7%) it doesn't look as if Golden Dawn would be the most likely party to overtake Syriza if there was another election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Greece Referendum Poll by Metron Analysis (2-3 July): Yes - 46% (-1%) No - 47% (+1%) DK - 7% (N/C) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Looking at the last opinion poll in Greece: Syriza - 38.6% (+2.3% on Election) New Democracy - 25.4% (-2.4%) Golden Dawn - 6.3% (N/C) Potami - 6.3% (+0.2%) Communist - 6.1% (+0.6%) Others - 17.3% (-0.7%) it doesn't look as if Golden Dawn would be the most likely party to overtake Syriza if there was another election. I know Just said they were hovering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Q Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 (edited) And in doing so they changed the morality of the debt. Defaulting on a private bank debt = private business risk, not good to do but that's business. Defaulting on public debt = stealing from taxpayers and morally reprehensible. That's the heart of the matter for me. Countless banks made bad loans to countries across Europe on which they made a good return for a while, but which were never realistically going to be paid back in full. When it all started to go bad governments (including the EU) bailed out the banks using taxpayers money, thereby (as you say) transferring the debt from the private sector to the public. We are all now paying for the stupidity of bankers who are largely still in place. The Greeks are the first country to stand up to this, unlike, for example, the Irish. There are issues for democracy around this, with unelected officials in the IMF and EU attempting to bully an elected government into carrying out neo-liberal policies that the people rejected in an election. This is causing massive hardship which will get worse when the banks in Greece fold ( how will theY pay to import food? Or medicine?) and this in a country that was until relatively recently a military dictatorship. The EU needs to be very careful here, as even the IMF and U.S. Are counselling. Edited July 4, 2015 by Pool Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Debtor houses were abolished for a reason. Banks want to have risk free lending and actually had an unpaid massive insurance policy with the people of the world we didn't know about which they cashed in to the tune of trillions in 2008 when they went tits up and everyone bailed them out. Lending for profit is a two sided risk, not one sided. Pool Q it's a coup attempt using financial warfare. Perkins talked about it ages ago now. Corporations having more rights than humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jersey Jim Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 11 years ago today Greece won Euro 2004, now I think they would just be happy with 2004 Euros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's going to get a lot worse and even then it won't be nearly as bad as many countries across the globe. it's all relative. That's possibly true but does Greece have to be diminished to the point of being a virtual third world country before people consider a different way of doing things? If I was Greek I don't think I'd accept that. Could be argued that the General Election was the very thing and that the UK did indeed vote in more austerity please. I was thinking that myself. The kind of austerity we've seen - which is bad enough - is mild compared to what the Greeks have had to put up with though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Things i've noticed recently and reinforced by Andrew Neil on Politics Sunday today 1 -The BBC are desperate for The Greeks to be seen at fault, want them to vote Yes and want them to suffer more austerity so that it encourages Osborne to do the same 2 - Want to bomb Syria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 First indications but not official Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 5 out of 6 opinion polls give the victory to Oxi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Anyone know when the result is in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Anyone know when the result is in? last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 in an hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 10% of votes counted - 60% Oxi so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 last week. Similar to our referendum then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariokempes56 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 21% and 60% No. Going to be some day tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintlyscot Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Good on the Greeks. Shame they smashed the drachma presses on euro entry or the Bank of Greece could have been printing and stockpiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wonder if the oxi vote would have held up if it was subjected to months of scare stories? Something to think about for the next Indy vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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