wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Sorry but that's just complete crap. Lets not forget that neither Poland nor the Republic of Ireland beat us and had we been able to hold onto the lead in Warsaw we'd have had a better head to head record against both of them. The World Champions were so unassailable that both Poland and the ROI beat them. As for saying its sods law that Georgia were going to take points off someone, well its always us. It was a tough group but we should have been capable of finishing second in that group and at one point very likely. True, we drew with Poland and home and away, but we were lucky to come away from Warsaw with a draw (last 20 minutes they battered us).... ROI at Celtic Park was our game where we got lucky for the whole campaign.... game in Dublin we could hardly string two passes together the whole first half (grated they got the luck that day with a suspect goal). I think most people over estimated how good Germany were (us playing them first did not help as we felt we were unlucky at the time.... it was only apparent later on that we had blown a great chance in Dortmund.... if we had played Germany 2/3 games in, I think things might have been different.... Gordons attitude after Dortmund was a tad "that is the hard game over, now its all down hill for us".... only for it to become apparent that we could not rely on Germany to help us out) but they did what the Germans do best and got the results that mattered after a stuttery start to win the group, and people certainly underestimated just how good Poland were Edited January 27, 2016 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Looking at the Welsh team, players I would take from them are Bale (naturally), Williams, Collins (is West Ham really a "top club"?????), Ledley (who all are/or just about the wrong side of 30) Andy King and Ramsey.... that is only 6 players from their team, and yet from our squad I would still take all 3 of our keepers, Hanley, Martin, Robertson, Hutton, Brown, D Fletcher, Ritchie, Naismith, S Fletcher, McArthur, Morrison, Anya and Rhodes. Wales keeper is playing at a league higher than either of our keepers down south. Their central defensive pairing,100 caps between them, have been playing in the Premier League for years and are both better than the options we have at present in that position. Their left back(s), 3, are all at Premier League clubs which suggest that all are better than Andy Robertson at the current time. We would probably be delighted to have any of the following 4 in our midfield - Ramsey (25), King (27), Allen (25) and Ledley (29). Again all, bar Allen, pretty much established in the Premier League. Allen was at Swansea but is in and out at Liverpool and probably not first choice. Chuck in Edwards or Vaughan to those 4, its a sold and experienced midfield, nearly 200 caps between them. And then they have Bale. They are probably close to 500 caps in their first choice team they are an experienced starting 11. What they don't have is much strength in depth. We are about 330 caps in our normal first 11. Ohh and their average age is also younger than ours. I would argue that man for man, their starting 11 would probably contribute 8 or 9 players to a combined starting 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I think most people over estimated how good Germany were (us playing them first did not help as we felt we were unlucky at the time.... We didn't play Germany first, we played them in our second game. Germany's first game was in Warsaw, which they lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 We didn't play Germany first, we played them in our second game. Germany's first game was in Warsaw, which they lost. Sure? I thought they played a friendly in Dusseldorf before we played them and the defeat in Warsaw was their 2nd game (day we played Georgia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jailender Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Sure? I thought they played a friendly in Dusseldorf before we played them and the defeat in Warsaw was their 2nd game (day we played Georgia) That's what I thought too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Sure? I thought they played a friendly in Dusseldorf before we played them and the defeat in Warsaw was their 2nd game (day we played Georgia) My mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wales keeper is playing at a league higher than either of our keepers down south. Their central defensive pairing,100 caps between them, have been playing in the Premier League for years and are both better than the options we have at present in that position. Their left back(s), 3, are all at Premier League clubs which suggest that all are better than Andy Robertson at the current time. We would probably be delighted to have any of the following 4 in our midfield - Ramsey (25), King (27), Allen (25) and Ledley (29). Again all, bar Allen, pretty much established in the Premier League. Allen was at Swansea but is in and out at Liverpool and probably not first choice. Chuck in Edwards or Vaughan to those 4, its a sold and experienced midfield, nearly 200 caps between them. And then they have Bale. They are probably close to 500 caps in their first choice team they are an experienced starting 11. What they don't have is much strength in depth. We are about 330 caps in our normal first 11. Ohh and their average age is also younger than ours. I would argue that man for man, their starting 11 would probably contribute 8 or 9 players to a combined starting 11. Hennessey has only just established himself after 3 seasons at Palace as their No1 keeper, and though he is a good keeper, certainly no better than anything we have (regardless of level they are playing at just now.... can not really say its McGregor and Marshalls fault that they are playing in the Championship and as a result makes then poorer keepers). Yes, Collins and Williams have 100 caps between them, but how many of those have Wales actually been a good team? They were still their defensive partnership when they were a poor side (granted, their "click" moment seems to have been when Williams was made team captain).... both are the wrong side of 30, and there does not seem to be a instant replacement waiting (our central defending pairing is a problem, but Hanley is still young enough that he will be at the back for us for another 7/8 years at least.... folk knock him down, but forget he is still only 23/24ish). Midfielders I listed all the one's you mentioned as making a difference for us.... true Ledley is established, but so is his midfield partner at Palace in McArthur (just is not established in our team)....are King and Allan any better than Morrison on his day? Ramsey I would take for sure. Yes their squad average age is younger than ours (never denied that), but the older players in their squad are established one's in key positions that they do not have depth for.... any players over the age of 30 we have you could argue we have 3 or 4 younger hungry kids waiting for their chance to take). Wales are in the position just now we should have went to when Burley took over... they went through the bad years (us with Vogts)... they then had the steady the ship years (like we had with Smith where results might not have improved but the rot stopped) then started to string together some good and impressive results when all their hard work started to pay off (like we got with Eck).... only difference is they went to the next level, whereas we went into years of freefall....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Hennessey has only just established himself after 3 seasons at Palace as their No1 keeper, and though he is a good keeper, certainly no better than anything we have (regardless of level they are playing at just now.... can not really say its McGregor and Marshalls fault that they are playing in the Championship and as a result makes then poorer keepers). Hennessey has been classed as good enough to be the now established keeper at a mid level Premier league side. Not one manager down south has felt that its worth taking McGregor or Marshall from Championships sides, as Hennessey was, and giving them that chance. Yes, Collins and Williams have 100 caps between them, but how many of those have Wales actually been a good team? They were still their defensive partnership when they were a poor side (granted, their "click" moment seems to have been when Williams was made team captain).... both are the wrong side of 30, and there does not seem to be a instant replacement waiting (our central defending pairing is a problem, but Hanley is still young enough that he will be at the back for us for another 7/8 years at least.... folk knock him down, but forget he is still only 23/24ish). I don't understand the point about the pairing playing for Wales when they were performing poorly? The basic argument here is that Williams would be a starter in our team over any centre back we currently use and there is a decent chance that Collins would be too. Hanley would not get into a combined team ahead of either, Martin may rival Collins for a place...but then again he is the wrong side of 30. There may be no instant replacements for them but likewise there are no instant replacements for our current centre backs either. Midfielders I listed all the one's you mentioned as making a difference for us.... true Ledley is established, but so is his midfield partner at Palace in McArthur (just is not established in our team)....are King and Allan any better than Morrison on his day? Ramsey I would take for sure. You could argue that King and Allen are of a similar level to Morrison but one's at the league leaders, one cost £15m from Swansea and one is probably playing at the highest level of his career for a relegation fighting side. any players over the age of 30 we have you could argue we have 3 or 4 younger hungry kids waiting for their chance to take). Thats utter bollocks! Give me the 3 or 4 hungry kids waiting for their chance at Goalkeeper Right back Centre back Centre mid instead of Brown Attacking mid instead of Maloney If you can come up with 15-20 REALISTIC "hungry kids" for those 5 positions you should be managing Scotland instead of supporting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Give me the 3 or 4 hungry kids waiting for their chance at Goalkeeper Right back Centre back Centre mid instead of Brown Attacking mid instead of Maloney If you can come up with 15-20 REALISTIC "hungry kids" for those 5 positions you should be managing Scotland instead of supporting them. Goalkeeper is not a problem at the moment.... but going well down the list Jordan Archer, Right back - Callum Patterson, Left Back - Stephen Hendrie, Kieran Tierney, Forsyth Center Back - never denied this is our problem position, but we do at least have a couple of "ok" replacements - Berra, Greer, Mulgrew etc and if desperate Jack Grimmer or John Souttar. Centre Midfield - McArthur and Dorrans for starters.... could add in Armstrong and GMS.. Tom Cairney... Arnfield etc.... Attacking mid - Matt Phillips, Oliver Burke, And these are just off the top of my head.... Edited January 27, 2016 by wanderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz7 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Goalkeeper is not a problem at the moment.... but going well down the list Jordan Archer, Right back - Callum Patterson, Left Back - Stephen Hendrie, Kieran Tierney, Forsyth Center Back - never denied this is our problem position, but we do at least have a couple of "ok" replacements - Berra, Greer, Mulgrew etc and if desperate Jack Grimmer or John Souttar. Centre Midfield - McArthur and Dorrans for starters.... could add in Armstrong and GMS.. Tom Cairney... Arnfield etc.... Attacking mid - Matt Phillips, Oliver Burke, And these are just off the top of my head.... You must be on some sort of substance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Goalkeeper is not a problem at the moment.... but going well down the list Jordan Archer, Right back - Callum Patterson, Left Back - Stephen Hendrie, Kieran Tierney, Forsyth Center Back - never denied this is our problem position, but we do at least have a couple of "ok" replacements - Berra, Greer, Mulgrew etc and if desperate Jack Grimmer or John Souttar. Centre Midfield - McArthur and Dorrans for starters.... could add in Armstrong and GMS.. Tom Cairney... Arnfield etc.... Attacking mid - Matt Phillips, Oliver Burke, And these are just off the top of my head.... Stick to talking to random Albanian Journalists on Twitter, and worrying about your Adidas trackies. Your above is utter ballacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Goalkeeper is not a problem at the moment.... but going well down the list Jordan Archer, Right back - Callum Patterson, Left Back - Stephen Hendrie, Kieran Tierney, Forsyth Center Back - never denied this is our problem position, but we do at least have a couple of "ok" replacements - Berra, Greer, Mulgrew etc and if desperate Jack Grimmer or John Souttar. Centre Midfield - McArthur and Dorrans for starters.... could add in Armstrong and GMS.. Tom Cairney... Arnfield etc.... Attacking mid - Matt Phillips, Oliver Burke, And these are just off the top of my head.... Stephen Hendrie (yet to make his debut for West Ham and currently on loan to Southend) and Oliver Burke (who's only just started getting games for Forest) are now close to our senior team. Aye right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Stephen Hendrie (yet to make his debut for West Ham and currently on loan to Southend) and Oliver Burke (who's only just started getting games for Forest) are now close to our senior team. Aye right. Recall years ago there was some kid at Man United who made his scotland debut before his first team debut.... And for years afterwards everyone said every transfer window that he needs a move away to progress his career..... Wonder what happened to him? Hendrie played 100 games for Hamilton Accies and has been capped at U21 level, so is hardly some kid fresh out the youth academy. Burke is starting to grab more and more headlines and would not surprise me if he gets the same treatment Robertson, McGregor, Guald, McLoud got (even if just tagging along to carry the bags) and way Strachan is talking about calling up two squads in March, it's names like the ones I mentioned you will see here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Recall years ago there was some kid at Man United who made his scotland debut before his first team debut.... And for years afterwards everyone said every transfer window that he needs a move away to progress his career..... Wonder what happened to him? Hendrie played 100 games for Hamilton Accies and has been capped at U21 level, so is hardly some kid fresh out the youth academy. Burke is starting to grab more and more headlines and would not surprise me if he gets the same treatment Robertson, McGregor, Guald, McLoud got (even if just tagging along to carry the bags) and way Strachan is talking about calling up two squads in March, it's names like the ones I mentioned you will see here and there. That's desperate stuff. I post an awful lot of rubbish myself but not half as much guff as you regularly do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wanderer. You should ban yourself mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noctonjock Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Recall years ago there was some kid at Man United who made his scotland debut before his first team debut.... And for years afterwards everyone said every transfer window that he needs a move away to progress his career.....Wonder what happened to him? You cant mean Darren fletcher because he played for man united first team before he made his debut for Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Recall years ago there was some kid at Man United who made his scotland debut before his first team debut.... And for years afterwards everyone said every transfer window that he needs a move away to progress his career.....Wonder what happened to him? You cant mean Darren fletcher because he played for man united first team before he made his debut for Scotland Made his Scotland debut v Norway in Aug 2003, and though had played in a European game the season before, his league debut was a few weeks later (sure there was big deal made of it at the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radian_13 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wanderer think you've had enough Internet for today, some woeful shouts! CB soutar and Grimmer haha me, is the future that bad? Hendrie:/!!! Go out a walk get some fresh air, too much utter nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruskojock1314 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 made his man utd debut 12th mar 2003 against basel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wanderer think you've had enough Internet for today, some woeful shouts! CB soutar and Grimmer haha ###### me, is the future that bad? Hendrie:/!!! Go out a walk get some fresh air, too much utter nonsense. And where did I say we would have to play these players? It would take a serious amount of injuries right throughout the whole squad for players like this to get a chance. As I said, it's hardly rock bottom for us (and far from it).... Do any of you think the Danes and Dutch are sitting at home moping about being rock bottom because Albania and Iceland will be in France this summer while they are at home? Out squad is not the greatest, but there is hope, and I choose to have faith in our players, rather than look on envious at Wales because they have Wayne Hennessy in goals or NI because they have Kyle Laffery upfront (simply because they play in the premiership....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmcca5 Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 One for the future ? Possibly. He had a good game and had a hand in all Vales positive moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalgety Bay TA Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Goalkeeper is not a problem at the moment.... but going well down the list Jordan Archer, Right back - Callum Patterson, Left Back - Stephen Hendrie, Kieran Tierney, Forsyth Center Back - never denied this is our problem position, but we do at least have a couple of "ok" replacements - Berra, Greer, Mulgrew etc and if desperate Jack Grimmer or John Souttar. Centre Midfield - McArthur and Dorrans for starters.... could add in Armstrong and GMS.. Tom Cairney... Arnfield etc.... Attacking mid - Matt Phillips, Oliver Burke, And these are just off the top of my head.... I asked you for the 3-4 "hungry kids", your words, that you said were there to step in and replace our 30 something players in the current first team. You named 7 players who cannot possibly fall into the category "hungry kids". Do you even think/read what you are typing before hitting post?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Overthebar Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I asked you for the 3-4 "hungry kids", your words, that you said were there to step in and replace our 30 something players in the current first team. You named 7 players who cannot possibly fall into the category "hungry kids". Do you even think/read what you are typing before hitting post?! i think you are being polite by just saying 7 - Tom Cairney has just turned 25, GMS already is. Hungry kids they are not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Wanderer must have wandered into a pub before posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASTA Mick Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 C'mon lads. That's enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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