The mood at full time

[Diamond Scot]

37 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I don't think he subbed-on any Norwich players last night but otherwise I agree with you - we still rely on English second tier players to bulk out the squad. It's an uncomfortable truth for many but there it is.

I'm not going to get too upset about getting beat in a friendly, even getting beat heavily, because there are mitigating factors, but I'm old enough to remember when it was rare for a Scotland side to lose games by more than two goals.

McLean. / Norwich

The one thing id like us to work on is a formation / style that we can use when Tierney isnt playing as we dont have anybody close to being like for like. Personally id rather play a worse player who plays similar to Tierney (like Kingsley) than a better player who doesnt play the same way. (McKenna, Cooper, Souttar etc)

 

 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

58 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

McLean. / Norwich

The one thing id like us to work on is a formation / style that we can use when Tierney isnt playing as we dont have anybody close to being like for like. Personally id rather play a worse player who plays similar to Tierney (like Kingsley) than a better player who doesnt play the same way. (McKenna, Cooper, Souttar etc)

 

 

 

I made the same point last night. We rely too much on the Tierney/Robertson partnership. It is of great benefit to us but when either are injured we lose an attacking threat and our defence is simply not as secure. We need to have a Plan B and C for such eventualities.

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

McLean. / Norwich

The one thing id like us to work on is a formation / style that we can use when Tierney isnt playing as we dont have anybody close to being like for like. Personally id rather play a worse player who plays similar to Tierney (like Kingsley) than a better player who doesnt play the same way. (McKenna, Cooper, Souttar etc)

 

 

 

Wales, Northern Ireland and the RoI seem to do all right with English tier 2 players?

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, scotlad said:

I don't think he subbed-on any Norwich players last night but otherwise I agree with you - we still rely on English second tier players to bulk out the squad. It's an uncomfortable truth for many but there it is.

I'm not going to get too upset about getting beat in a friendly, even getting beat heavily, because there are mitigating factors, but I'm old enough to remember when it was rare for a Scotland side to lose games by more than two goals.

Wales, Northern Ireland and the RoI seem to do all right with English tier 2 players?

[todd]

8 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Wales, Northern Ireland and the RoI seem to do all right with English tier 2 players?

Yep, Northern Ireland are flying right now. They even managed to narrowly avoid a Nations League play-out to League D!

Edited March 23 by todd

[Third Lanark]

8 minutes ago, todd said:

Yep, Northern Ireland are flying right now. They even managed to narrowly avoid a Nations League play-out to League D!

They drew v Romania last night with an untried team of youngsters. Scotland did that I'd be happy.

[Yr Alban]

2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

McLean. / Norwich

The one thing id like us to work on is a formation / style that we can use when Tierney isnt playing as we dont have anybody close to being like for like. Personally id rather play a worse player who plays similar to Tierney (like Kingsley) than a better player who doesnt play the same way. (McKenna, Cooper, Souttar etc)

 

This is a bit of mystery to me as well. Tierney is crucial to the way we play. Kingsley isn't the same player by any stretch, but he's the next best fit for the role and has had a great season. Surprised SC hasn't at least given him a shot given we struggle a bit for central defenders.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

Wales, Northern Ireland and the RoI seem to do all right with English tier 2 players?

I was only responding to Scotlad who said we didnt bring on any Norwich players.

Im happy with Championship players. Its a good standard. Obviously the more top leagues players we have the better.

[todd]

2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

They drew v Romania last night with an untried team of youngsters. Scotland did that I'd be happy.

Oh yeah, brilliant, I so wish we were in their shoes right now! Ffs

Edited March 23 by todd

[scotlad]

2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

Wales, Northern Ireland and the RoI seem to do all right with English tier 2 players?

Yay! It's been ages since someone gave the Ireland and Wales klaxons a toot.

Northern Ireland have qualified for one tournament in 35 years and RoI finished second bottom of their qualifying group; they only won two games and those were against Gibraltar.

4 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

McLean. / Norwich

The one thing id like us to work on is a formation / style that we can use when Tierney isnt playing as we dont have anybody close to being like for like. Personally id rather play a worse player who plays similar to Tierney (like Kingsley) than a better player who doesnt play the same way. (McKenna, Cooper, Souttar etc)

 

 

 

I completely forgot about him, which maybe says something!

Edited March 23 by scotlad

[DoonTheSlope]

10 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

It was a friendly. I would rather get beat 4 nil but play like we did for the 1st 70 mins last night but just have an off night in front of goal than win one nil in a France away type performance where we are backs to the wall, dont look comfortable on the ball, create nothing and score from a freak 1 in a million goal.

You get no prizes for artistic impression in this game. It’s that sort of attitude that’s seen us become a nation of losers

[runningtings]

The big things we learned last night are that Patterson has not improved at all and Gilmour is critical for us holding our shape and being able to control the middle, when he left the midfield it was a shambles.

I think had McKenna not withdrawn he would have come on for Tierney, more comfortable as left CB though that doesn't really explain why Souttar was so bad.

I'd also give Shankland another start on Tuesday.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, DoonTheSlope said:

You get no prizes for artistic impression in this game. It’s that sort of attitude that’s seen us become a nation of losers

The exact opposite of that statement is true. Its our consistent need to try and grind out results, win at all cost regardless of age group etc that has held us back for decades.

Friendlys are exactly the type of games where you get gains for artistic impression as you put it. Practicing phases of play in real game situations so that players and management can learn what works, what doesnt and make tweaks for the competitive stuff.

[Hertsscot]

1 hour ago, runningtings said:

The big things we learned last night are that Patterson has not improved at all and Gilmour is critical for us holding our shape

Given the amount of time he's been given at Everton it's no surprise that Patterson hasn't improved but, if Hickey's injured, we haven't got anyone better than him, unless we call up Livramento. Iirc he hasnt let us down before. He's young, he's a defender and almost inevitably he'll make mistakes.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I was only responding to Scotlad who said we didnt bring on any Norwich players.

Im happy with Championship players. Its a good standard. Obviously the more top leagues players we have the better.

An EPL player is not automatically a better player than a Championship one. For some weird unexplainable reason a section of our fans  think players magically transform into a better player because they play in the EPL. Say, for example, Norwich City get promoted from the Championship this season all of a sudden opinions on Gunn, Hanley and McLean will change. Why? They are and will be the same players they are now. Being an EPL player is just an ego massager for fans.

[hampden_loon2878]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:52 PM, LoganRoy said:

A lot now very angry voices being heard and vitriol towards Clarke at the end.  People weren't happy. Yes, it's a friendly, but that's 6 without a win with a number of poor showings in those games.  

Some very bizarre substitutions and decision making after a positive 60 minutes.  

A positive result is a must, and that means by performance and score.  

some folk need to get a grip, steve has done brilliant with scotland

[bigfingers]

I would give Ralston a go on Tuesday night. He’s pretty solid and quick and might be needed if Hickey isn’t fit. 

[Diamond Scot]

7 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

An EPL player is not automatically a better player than a Championship one. For some weird unexplainable reason a section of our fans  think players magically transform into a better player because they play in the EPL. Say, for example, Norwich City get promoted from the Championship this season all of a sudden opinions on Gunn, Hanley and McLean will change. Why? They are and will be the same players they are now. Being an EPL player is just an ego massager for fans.

Not automatically better but EPL players are better than Championship players.  Otherwise the championship teams would be in the EPL and vice versa.

There is a reason the succesful teams are made up of top flight players. And not just top flight but the best teams from the top flight.

Each player needs to be considered on their merits though.

[Third Lanark]

23 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Not automatically better but EPL players are better than Championship players.  Otherwise the championship teams would be in the EPL and vice versa.

There is a reason the succesful teams are made up of top flight players. And not just top flight but the best teams from the top flight.

Each player needs to be considered on their merits though.

I'll give you an example: Alan Campbell. Did all right in the championship with Luton but nowhere to be seen in the EPL.

[Caledonian Craig]

42 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I'll give you an example: Alan Campbell. Did all right in the championship with Luton but nowhere to be seen in the EPL.

Hmmm Charlie Adam (Liverpool) played like a massive steaming turd for us. Give me Championship player Stuart Armstrong anyday. Dykes has never been an EPLplayer but has been of more good to us with goals and assists than Charlie Nicholas (Arsenal) ever was.

[Diamond Scot]

I think an above average player, playing well with confidence in the Championship is better for the national team than the same player struggling in the EPL. 

However a good player playing well in the EPL will be better than the above championship player. Ie McGinn / McTomminay / Gilmour are better than Armstrong / McLean however Patterson playing for a side like Leeds every week would be better than his current situation at Everton.

[runningtings]

19 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Given the amount of time he's been given at Everton it's no surprise that Patterson hasn't improved but, if Hickey's injured, we haven't got anyone better than him, unless we call up Livramento. Iirc he hasnt let us down before. He's young, he's a defender and almost inevitably he'll make mistakes.

I would play Ralston ahead of him after that performance the other night, he was really poor.

[thesaint]

20 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Given the amount of time he's been given at Everton it's no surprise that Patterson hasn't improved but, if Hickey's injured, we haven't got anyone better than him, unless we call up Livramento. Iirc he hasnt let us down before. He's young, he's a defender and almost inevitably he'll make mistakes.

Yes. Felt a bit sorry for Paterson. His lack of game time under Dyche has obviously affected his confidence and even something as basic as his touch on the ball. Looks like a player who is frustrated at the position he is in at Everton. Even Billy Gilmour who has superb technical ability suffered a lack in form when he was hardly playing for Brighton. Now that he plays every week just look at the standard of his performances. Players have to play regular football to keep improving. Sitting on the bench every week and never getting game time is a sure way to stop any improvement in their game. 

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, runningtings said:

I would play Ralston ahead of him after that performance the other night, he was really poor.

Patterson was poor but he has some credit in the bank. If he plays as poor in the next 3 friendlies then thats another matter.

Ralston is miles off the standard needed. None of the subs looked good on Friday but he was just as poor.

Given the option of Ralston or trying to install abit of confidence back into Patterson then id opt for the later.

One thing for sure is Patterson needs a move in the summer.

[Malcolm]

We don’t have any depth apart from midfield.  People got all excited about our full backs but we have two really if you exclude tierney as we need him at centre half.

Calvin ramsay… remember him?