LoganRoy Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 A lot now very angry voices being heard and vitriol towards Clarke at the end. People weren't happy. Yes, it's a friendly, but that's 6 without a win with a number of poor showings in those games. Some very bizarre substitutions and decision making after a positive 60 minutes. A positive result is a must, and that means by performance and score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burj_Alba Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 2 minutes ago, LoganRoy said: A lot now very angry voices being heard and vitriol towards Clarke at the end. People weren't happy. Yes, it's a friendly, but that's 6 without a win with a number of poor showings in those games. Some very bizarre substitutions and decision making after a positive 60 minutes. A positive result is a must, and that means by performance and score. Think one of the problems is the Netherlands bring on subs from Dortmund and Inter Milan, we bring on from Southampton and Norwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 5 minutes ago, Burj_Alba said: Think one of the problems is the Netherlands bring on subs from Dortmund and Inter Milan, we bring on from (Southampton and Norwich.) And Bologna # Juventus but whatevs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRoy Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 6 minutes ago, Burj_Alba said: Think one of the problems is the Netherlands bring on subs from Dortmund and Inter Milan, we bring on from Southampton and Norwich. Clarke knows who they have on their bench and has to manage against that. No Centre half on their biggest threat at corners isn't because we have a Southampton player on the park. Ach, I'm away to get fired in to heineken and launch a bike in the canal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiScotsman Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 I think it’s just the manner of how we crumbled in that 2nd half when the 2nd Dutch goal went in is the most disappointing aspect for me. We just threw the towel in as lost all our shape & composure from there and it just became a horrible watch for those last 20 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Andy Robertson absolutely raging in that interview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiScotsman Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Just now, bonzo said: Andy Robertson absolutely raging in that interview. McGinn wasn’t too pleased either which is understandable after what just occurred. Just hope these defeats don’t damage us mentally as we’re going to be playing pot 1 nations teams like this from the Euros onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 As soon as the subs were made I predicted a shambles. I cannot ever remember Scotland making numerous substitutions and things turning around. Even when we have been comfortably up in games it has sometimes ended up squeaky bum time after subbing a few players. That isnt the reason we lost 4-0 though, we had plenty chances and didn’t take them. That is our real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ak91 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 This will be irony from me after some of the things I’ve said about Clarke but people upset at that are over reacting. it was probably a blessing the way that panned out because there will be major lessons to learn in time for the tournament. I think we can look at the positives from tonight and take that forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf1960 Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 Clarke has the unenviable task of selecting a squad that will compete at the Euros, thats what these friendlies are for. Unfortunately he has to look at all of the players and make a decision about who is going to Germany and who isnt. Despite the end result tonight for 70 minutes we didnt just match the Dutch we outplayed them. We had a great shape, high work rate and a good energy unfortunately taking off Tierney, Gilmour and Shankland and replacing them with Souttar, Ferguson and Adams significantly disrupted our whole structure and most definitely weakened the team, spaces that hadnt been there suddenly appeared. When hes subbing players at the Euros Im certain the manager will ensure its the ones who arent cutting it and not key players in that particular match. A competitive match could have a very different outcome with less changes for changes sake in the match. Steve Clarke has proved time and again that hes more than capable of getting the best from his players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, DesiScotsman said: McGinn wasn’t too pleased either which is understandable after what just occurred. Just hope these defeats don’t damage us mentally as we’re going to be playing pot 1 nations teams like this from the Euros onwards. If defeats like this damage us then the players arent good enough to start with. Good players / teams learn from nights like this. Thats the entire reason we are choosing such hard friendlies. In order to make the next step we need to do the learning curve. We were excellent in several aspects of our play tonight. Not just holding our own but outplaying the Dutch in Holland. That would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. Weirdly after a 4 nil loss, im even more sure we will get out the group in the summer. Im not sure what some fans expect. You cant go from being a shambles just a few years ago, 22 years without qualifying for a tournament to qualifying for back to back Euros and totally changing the way we play football without some bumps in the road. We havent won in 6 games but 4 of those games were Spain, France and Holland away. Another was England at home. We arent expected to win any of those games. The other 2 were draws that didnt matter because he had already done the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, Diamond Scot said: If defeats like this damage us then the players arent good enough to start with. Good players / teams learn from nights like this. Thats the entire reason we are choosing such hard friendlies. In order to make the next step we need to do the learning curve. We were excellent in several aspects of our play tonight. Not just holding our own but outplaying the Dutch in Holland. That would have been unthinkable just a few years ago. Weirdly after a 4 nil loss, im even more sure we will get out the group in the summer. Im not sure what some fans expect. You cant go from being a shambles just a few years ago, 22 years without qualifying for a tournament to qualifying for back to back Euros and totally changing the way we play football without some bumps in the road. We havent won in 6 games but 4 of those games were Spain, France and Holland away. Another was England at home. We arent expected to win any of those games. The other 2 were draws that didnt matter because he had already done the job. I agree with most of this. To add I have seen us win matches by two or three goals and not play as well. It is very frustrating as confidence will take a knock and puts doubts in minds. Positives were for an hour we were the better team. We created lots of chances playing some really nice stuff against a country ranked six in the world - a watching alien would have watched that first hour and thought we were the higher ranked. Negatives were we did not take our chances and crumbled alarmingly in the last 18 minutes with the defence going from looking pretty secure to having more holes than a golf course. That needs addressing. In our remaining three matches before the Euros we need three confidence-boosting wins and much tighter defensive performances but worries will linger even if we do that given the quality of the upcoming opposition. Edited March 23 by Caledonian Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoonTheSlope Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 6 hours ago, Diamond Scot said: We were excellent in several aspects of our play tonight We were absolutely humpty in the most important aspect of our play last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempre Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 10 hours ago, LoganRoy said: A lot now very angry voices being heard and vitriol towards Clarke at the end. People weren't happy. While that's true, they were very much in the minority. The majority applauded the team off the pitch and accepted 4-0 wasn't even close to being a fair reflection of the game. Those shouting at fellow fans for clapping need a word with themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRoy Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 45 minutes ago, Sempre said: While that's true, they were very much in the minority. The majority applauded the team off the pitch and accepted 4-0 wasn't even close to being a fair reflection of the game. Those shouting at fellow fans for clapping need a word with themselves. I thought it was pretty loud, and there were a number of concerned individuals in the boozer after. I think last nights last 20 minutes showed incredible naivety. Clarke needs a result Tuesday night that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 hours ago, DoonTheSlope said: We were absolutely humpty in the most important aspect of our play last night Its all relative though. It was a friendly. I would rather get beat 4 nil but play like we did for the 1st 70 mins last night but just have an off night in front of goal than win one nil in a France away type performance where we are backs to the wall, dont look comfortable on the ball, create nothing and score from a freak 1 in a million goal. If you want to become a really top team then you have to dominate games against similar or better sides. We are learning to do that. (Spain home and at times away, Norway at home) We are also dispatching lesser sides with relative ease compared to previous years when we struggled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Scot Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, LoganRoy said: I thought it was pretty loud, and there were a number of concerned individuals in the boozer after. I think last nights last 20 minutes showed incredible naivety. Clarke needs a result Tuesday night that's for sure. Anybody even thinking about not having Clarke as manager needs their head checked. We really do have some nuggets in our support who have no understanding of football. As I said elsewhere, we havent won in 6 games. 4 of those game were against the best nations in the world, 3 of them were away from home. Clarke selected these friendlies because they are whats needed to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sempre Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 2 hours ago, LoganRoy said: Clarke needs a result Tuesday night that's for sure. He doesn't. If we don't win on Tuesday, we're still going to the Euros and he'll still be the manager taking us there. His whole plan to lure everyone into a false sense of security then batter everyone in Germany is bold for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganRoy Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 7 minutes ago, Sempre said: He doesn't. If we don't win on Tuesday, we're still going to the Euros and he'll still be the manager taking us there. His whole plan to lure everyone into a false sense of security then batter everyone in Germany is bold for sure. Haha, I hope you're right. But I think a result is needed to get a win under our belts. The players seemed angry last night in their interviews which was good to see. I expect a routine win, and of course Clarke will take us to the Euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, LoganRoy said: Haha, I hope you're right. But I think a result is needed to get a win under our belts. The players seemed angry last night in their interviews which was good to see. I expect a routine win, and of course Clarke will take us to the Euros. If , on Tuesday , we play like we did the first hour last night I can see us win by the same scoreline we were beaten last night . I think the team will feel they have something to prove and if they can create similar chances we will score goals. At the same time, I hope this is not one of those posts that doesn’t age well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan blood Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 8 minutes ago, TDYER63 said: If , on Tuesday , we play like we did the first hour last night I can see us win by the same scoreline we were beaten last night . I think the team will feel they have something to prove and if they can create similar chances we will score goals. At the same time, I hope this is not one of those posts that doesn’t age well. I actually think Clarke will have learned he got it right, on the most part. Obviously Hickey would normally be in for Patterson. And the centre backs are still a bit of a mystery. Other than that, I think it was spot on. I hope Clarke sees it that way and doesn't change too much against Northern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 17 minutes ago, Tartan blood said: I actually think Clarke will have learned he got it right, on the most part. Obviously Hickey would normally be in for Patterson. And the centre backs are still a bit of a mystery. Other than that, I think it was spot on. I hope Clarke sees it that way and doesn't change too much against Northern Ireland. I agree. Driving home from work on Thursday the radio phone in was on and the Under 21s were playing Kazakstan. Someone then mentioned that it was 5 years to the day that the senior team got beat 3-0 by them. I remember I was in Verona travelling to the San Marino game, I watching it on my phone, it was utterly horrific . People need to remember how far the team has come since then , but we are still not playing at the level of the top teams on a consistent basis. I think some supporters get carried away. We gave a high tempo performance for a large part last night, that consistency is an improvement in itself . The multiple substitutions was always going to upset things. We just dont have the depth in squad that the top teams have and we have no prolific strikers. 4-0 is hard to take as it absolutely did not reflect the performance over 90 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 16 hours ago, Burj_Alba said: Think one of the problems is the Netherlands bring on subs from Dortmund and Inter Milan, we bring on from Southampton and Norwich. I don't think he subbed-on any Norwich players last night but otherwise I agree with you - we still rely on English second tier players to bulk out the squad. It's an uncomfortable truth for many but there it is. I'm not going to get too upset about getting beat in a friendly, even getting beat heavily, because there are mitigating factors, but I'm old enough to remember when it was rare for a Scotland side to lose games by more than two goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 If it wasn’t a friendly last night Clarke would not have made the changes he did. We were the better team until the subs were made albeit we were losing. On another night we could easily have scored 3 or 4 goals against a good team. If the game had finished 4-4 I don’t think anyone would have been moaning about Clarke. If we lose on Tuesday night that will be much more of a concern for me than a late collapse against the Dutch away from home. A comfortable win and good performance against NI and last night’s game can be forgotten about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 17 hours ago, LoganRoy said: A lot now very angry voices being heard and vitriol towards Clarke at the end. People weren't happy. Yes, it's a friendly, but that's 6 without a win with a number of poor showings in those games. Some very bizarre substitutions and decision making after a positive 60 minutes. A positive result is a must, and that means by performance and score. It’s 6 games without a win against England, France, Spain, Netherlands, Georgia away (where we have never won and never even took a point previously) and a decent Norway team in a dead rubber. If it was 6 competitive games without a win against lower ranked teams then I could see the point of being concerned. If we win our next 3 friendlies are those people who were booing last night going to suddenly think we are going to win Euro 2024 because we have beaten 2 mediocre teams and a poor one? I’d rather be losing friendlies against top ranked teams just now than be losing games that actually matter in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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