Caledonian Craig Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said: I think UEFA actually have it as 32%-68% but I’m not sure which is correct as most sources do show it as 25%-75%. Not that it matters as, like you say, dominance in possession doesn’t win you games if you can’t convert it to chances and goals. Indeed. Spain lost against us for the same reason they exited the World Cup. Lots and lots of possession but no end product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: Indeed. Spain lost against us for the same reason they exited the World Cup. Lots and lots of possession but no end product. Although, against Scotland, they did seem to be trying to play a totally different game to what they played at the World Cup and to what they have done for years, by sending a lot of crosses into a big target man in the box. It would be a sad state of affairs if the Spanish media and fans have hounded them into playing like that, because of one or two matches at the World Cup where they failed to put the ball in the net, despite having large amounts of possession. Surely they just needed to work on their end product a bit, and on finding ways to be more clinical, rather than changing style completely? A team like Spain shouldn’t be relying on a big man up front - that just plays into the hands of teams like us! They demolished Costa Rica 7-0 at the World Cup, so it’s not like their possession style doesn’t work at all, it just happened to have an off day or two, which led to them being knocked out on penalties. Nothing wrong with having huge possession numbers, especially as it severely limits the chances of the opposition scoring, for starters. The Spain team that won three major tournaments in a row, between 2008 and 2012 - which I believe to be the greatest international side of all time - were hardly the most clinical either. They just used loads of possession as a great form of defence and if I remember correctly didn’t concede a single goal in their 10 knockout ties in that period, including several extra time periods, which is quite frankly a phenomenal statistic. (Can that even be correct, maybe I’ve got that wrong?! Seems too good to be true.) Possession stats like that are often slated if there’s a lack of end product, but as long as those possession stats are leading to very few goals being conceded, there’s not really a problem, as that great Spain team showed with loads of 1-0 victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JECK Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 3:24 PM, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said: 👍👍👍 What a man. The beautiful Scottish manc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ramy 1314 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: No that is accurate. It states those stats on several ratified websites and the UEFA one. The amount of possession a team has is immaterial if you can't do anything with it. We had more shots on goal than them and two goals which says how well we used the ball when we had it. Cheers for that Craig. Maybe it was just me, or Spain holding the ball and not exactly doing anything with it which is a credit to Clarke for setting up that system.. I agree, you can have the possession all fuckin day long, but if you can't put thr ball in the net, it is a useless stat. Fair play to Scotland for not sitting back and havin a go. I think Spain were banking on us BEING afraid, sitting back in, and then being punished. I am confident going to Spain now, and I think their disrespectful comments while fire us up.. Cunts !!🖕🖕🏴🏴. Alba Gu Brath !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just watched that 2nd goal again. Fuckin awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just reading the aftermath of rodris interview....... kris boyd doesn't quite get the irony of him talking about a player spitting the dummy 🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: Just watched that 2nd goal again. Fuckin awesome Tierney’s run was incredible, McTominay’s shot was well-executed, however Tierney’s cross was really poor, a waste of a very strong position. He needs to look at Robertson’s cross for the first goal, to see how it should have been done! He could probably have picked out McTominay coming from deep, just like Robertson did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just now, vanderark14 said: Just reading the aftermath of rodris interview....... kris boyd doesn't quite get the irony of him talking about a player spitting the dummy 🤣🤣🤣 😂😂😂 The way he goes on sometimes you’d think he was Scotland’s most loyal player ever or something. Aye nobody remembers that time you refused to play under Burley, Kris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Texas Pete said: 😂😂😂 The way he goes on sometimes you’d think he was Scotland’s most loyal player ever or something. Aye nobody remembers that time you refused to play under Burley, Kris. Exactly what I think He's one of the go to pundits for sky too which illustrates they know absolutely fuck all about Scottish football 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Texas Pete said: I think UEFA actually have it as 32%-68% but I’m not sure which is correct as most sources do show it as 25%-75%. Not that it matters as, like you say, dominance in possession doesn’t win you games if you can’t convert it to chances and goals. Flashscore had it 67% to 33%. Feels like football has changed a fair bit over the last 20 years. Used to be that a team with most of the possession would more often win a match but it seems more and more common for teams to sit back and hit the opposition on the counter and to not neccessarily need to have lions share of possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said: Flashscore had it 67% to 33%. Feels like football has changed a fair bit over the last 20 years. Used to be that a team with most of the possession would more often win a match but it seems more and more common for teams to sit back and hit the opposition on the counter and to not neccessarily need to have lions share of possession. I think teams with possession of 50-odd percent will still often lose the match. However, once a team gets up to 60 or 65 percent possession, they’re going to be very unlikely to lose the match. We competed well and the win wasn’t undeserved, but the first goal was very fortunate and the second goal a bit fortunate as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanderark14 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 I wish the international break wasn't over. Club football is shite IMO. Totally bored of it now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 27 minutes ago, vanderark14 said: I wish the international break wasn't over. Club football is shite IMO. Totally bored of it now Ditto. The only interest I have is looking to see Scotland internationals in action and doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFadden07 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Whelky75 said: I think teams with possession of 50-odd percent will still often lose the match. However, once a team gets up to 60 or 65 percent possession, they’re going to be very unlikely to lose the match. We competed well and the win wasn’t undeserved, but the first goal was very fortunate and the second goal a bit fortunate as well. In the last two years in competitive matches: - We beat them with 25% possession - Morocco beat them on penalties with 23% possession - Japan beat them with 17% possession - Switzerland beat them with 25% possession - France beat them with 36% possession - Sweden beat them with 25% possession - Italy beat them on penalties with 30% possession It's very rare for Spain to have less than 2/3 of the ball against any given opponent (even the top nations). It's not at all rare to see them lose or fail to win in spite of that. The fact their possession resulted in fewer efforts on goal than us says it all about their flaws. Any sensible manager playing against them knows to let them pass the ball around ineffectually and then hit them on the break when the opportunity arises. Nothing lucky about it, that's how any team beats them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 33 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said: Ditto. The only interest I have is looking to see Scotland internationals in action and doing well. Thats about it for me too. Give me two weeks and McBurnie will be the greatest thing since sliced bread and everyone else can start hating Hanley again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceudmilefailte Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 We would have had a lot more of the ball if we hadn't gone ahead within 10 minutes. Interestingly the touches of ball stats are far closer percentage wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, McFadden07 said: In the last two years in competitive matches: - We beat them with 25% possession - Morocco beat them on penalties with 23% possession - Japan beat them with 17% possession - Switzerland beat them with 25% possession - France beat them with 36% possession - Sweden beat them with 25% possession - Italy beat them on penalties with 30% possession It's very rare for Spain to have less than 2/3 of the ball against any given opponent (even the top nations). It's not at all rare to see them lose or fail to win in spite of that. The fact their possession resulted in fewer efforts on goal than us says it all about their flaws. Any sensible manager playing against them knows to let them pass the ball around ineffectually and then hit them on the break when the opportunity arises. Nothing lucky about it, that's how any team beats them. I think Spain are now trying to change their style of play, which is also adding to their problems at the moment. They will need time to adjust, and time will tell if it has worked or not. They were trying to be much more direct against us than they have been for the past 15 years or so. It didn't work out this time, but they did create a few decent chances in the first half. If one or two of them had resulted in goals then we would have had a very different game on our hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Thought they were unfortunate to lose to Italy in the last euro semi final, they missed some good chances. However not many teams can make 8 changes and have no issues so surprised the manager decided to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, McFadden07 said: In the last two years in competitive matches: - We beat them with 25% possession - Morocco beat them on penalties with 23% possession - Japan beat them with 17% possession - Switzerland beat them with 25% possession - France beat them with 36% possession - Sweden beat them with 25% possession - Italy beat them on penalties with 30% possession It's very rare for Spain to have less than 2/3 of the ball against any given opponent (even the top nations). It's not at all rare to see them lose or fail to win in spite of that. The fact their possession resulted in fewer efforts on goal than us says it all about their flaws. Any sensible manager playing against them knows to let them pass the ball around ineffectually and then hit them on the break when the opportunity arises. Nothing lucky about it, that's how any team beats them. Wow, that’s really interesting. I can’t believe they’ve lost as many matches as that - even without counting the penalty shootouts as losses - with so much possession. I think it’s still the correct way to play, but obviously they just don’t quite have the talent - both creatively and defensively - to make it work as well as it once did for them. It’s only one-in-five competitive matches they’ve lost in that time period, so it’s not a total disaster either. From a neutral football fan’s point of view, taking off the kilt and Scotland paraphernalia for a minute, seeing Spain resorting to putting crosses into the box for a big striker was not a good thing to witness. They could still easily have won the World Cup just passed, as there were no standout teams there. They just happened to lose their penalty shootout, whereas Argentina happened to win their two. The Spanish media seem to have labeled it as a disaster and scapegoated Luis Enrique, and perhaps the style of play as well, but in all honesty, Spain were probably a better team than the eventual winners and as good a team as anyone in that weak tournament. People should be careful making sweeping judgements based on the results of a penalty shootout or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Whelky75 said: I think teams with possession of 50-odd percent will still often lose the match. However, once a team gets up to 60 or 65 percent possession, they’re going to be very unlikely to lose the match. We competed well and the win wasn’t undeserved, but the first goal was very fortunate and the second goal a bit fortunate as well. Yeh i see your point in that once you get into high possession you will still be likely to win the match but i definitely think theres alot more matches these days where the team with significantly less possession will win and it wont neccessarily be a smash and grab. The team with less possession has simply sat back and hit on the counter and made better use of the possession they do get to create clear cut chances. Saying that i havent done any proper statistical analysis, i am just going on my own observation and that might not neccessarily be reality or true. The second goal wasnt fortunate. Great finish after a great run. First goal was a bit fortunate imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 2 hours ago, McFadden07 said: In the last two years in competitive matches: - We beat them with 25% possession - Morocco beat them on penalties with 23% possession - Japan beat them with 17% possession - Switzerland beat them with 25% possession - France beat them with 36% possession - Sweden beat them with 25% possession - Italy beat them on penalties with 30% possession It's very rare for Spain to have less than 2/3 of the ball against any given opponent (even the top nations). It's not at all rare to see them lose or fail to win in spite of that. The fact their possession resulted in fewer efforts on goal than us says it all about their flaws. Any sensible manager playing against them knows to let them pass the ball around ineffectually and then hit them on the break when the opportunity arises. Nothing lucky about it, that's how any team beats them. Thats some interesting stats buddy. Maybe Spain need to get some more cutting edge and guys who will create proper chances. Japan managing to win with 17% is amazing. If you go by flashscore we had 33% of possession which looks slightly better than the 25% on other sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said: Yeh i see your point in that once you get into high possession you will still be likely to win the match but i definitely think theres alot more matches these days where the team with significantly less possession will win and it wont neccessarily be a smash and grab. The team with less possession has simply sat back and hit on the counter and made better use of the possession they do get to create clear cut chances. Saying that i havent done any proper statistical analysis, i am just going on my own observation and that might not neccessarily be reality or true. The second goal wasnt fortunate. Great finish after a great run. First goal was a bit fortunate imo. I would say the first goal was very fortunate - involving a slip and a deflection at separate points in the build-up. The second was a bit fortunate, as the cross from Tierney was pretty bad and it fell kindly to McTominay and also went through a group of bodies on its way to going in. I don’t really see how you can claim a goal to not be fortunate, when the other team have touched the ball so late in the build-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Pete Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 People having conversations with themselves on here again. This place really has died on its arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccaughey85 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, Whelky75 said: I would say the first goal was very fortunate - involving a slip and a deflection at separate points in the build-up. The second was a bit fortunate, as the cross from Tierney was pretty bad and it fell kindly to McTominay and also went through a group of bodies on its way to going in. I don’t really see how you can claim a goal to not be fortunate, when the other team have touched the ball so late in the build-up! Because thats how football goes sometimes. Tierney went on a great run and mctominay scored with a great finish. Just because tierney never picked out the perfect pass doesnt cancel out the good work from both players. If spain had scored that goal i wouldnt be calling it fortunate. Every goal doesnt have to a perfect passing move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whelky75 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said: Because thats how football goes sometimes. Tierney went on a great run and mctominay scored with a great finish. Just because tierney never picked out the perfect pass doesnt cancel out the good work from both players. If spain had scored that goal i wouldnt be calling it fortunate. Every goal doesnt have to a perfect passing move. The run from his own half was incredible. The shot was well-controlled. However, you can’t ignore the dose of good fortune in-between that, as if it didn’t happen. That’s ridiculous. You could say the goal wasn’t fortunate on the whole, but there was clearly an element of fortune involved, in the ball landing in a position where McTominay could get a shot off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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