Clarke committed to Scotland

[stitch]

I'm not calling for his head though I don't think he is the right man for the job but he is probably the best that we will get at this time. 

In the world Cup qualifiers he got it wrong and played far to deep but has changed that in the last 5 games. 

This tournament he got things wrong on player selection and a few others things mainly set plays. Hopefully now he knows the youngsters coming through are good enough he will change that as well. 

We are a long way off being a top side probably around 5 starting players then a handful on the bench but we are so much better and have a lot going forward into the next round of games. If Clarke gets things right and all the players are fit I still think we should get 6 points at least and be in a good place to get at least 2nd in this group. 

[csinclair]

3 hours ago, Mickey The Brave said:

Surely the fact that Bale and Ramsey play in much more advanced and influential positions than our star players, has to have a major bearing as well though? We’ve ended up with two amazing left-backs, which is firstly a nightmare to try and fit them both in the team, and probably one of the main reasons that we’re now tied to the formation that we are, and secondly, left-back is not a position that is going to change the outcome of very many football matches.

Bale & Ramsey are both individually capable of doing something out of nothing to win/turn a game. I'm not sure we have that kind of player.

[gkm_vancouver]

19 hours ago, scotlad said:

Ah, so we've reached the 'sack the manager' stage.  It's taken a bit longer than usual, which is progress of sorts, I suppose.  And all because he couldn't get us out of a group that included the World Cup finalists and World Cup semi-finalists!  Seriously guys, what were you expecting?? 

I don't think anyone has said sack him until you did so that's a bit strong. However he is being criticized and rightly so as we should have been capable of playing better and getting better results from that tournament.

He obviously did make a lot of progress in his first year  by stopping the gubbings, shoring up the defence. getting a Tierney/Robbo formation, going on a long 10 game unbeaten run and most importantly, finding a way to get us to a major tourney - which he should always be recognised and commended on.

What I find frustrating is that since the Serbia game after which I'm sure he said he was now looking to build on that success by finding different ways to win games, competing against better teams and winning by more than an odd goal, we seem to have done the opposite. We immediately lost 2 very winnable games, struggled in the first WC qualifiers to get a win before the Faroes but had a decent friendly against the Netherlands. He'd introduced some good additions to the squad on Adams, Gilmour, Turnbull, Patterson. Nisbet and brought Hanley back. But he's lost momentum with unbeaten games and performance levels; not really capitalized on the excellent Tierney runs we saw pre-tourney; not used our quality midfield to try and run games more rather than reverting to punts up to Dykes; not found a decent alternative to the 5-3-2 formation; only played a consistent team after the England team when Croatia game was crying out for a different approach and then crucially not changing things when it obviously wasn't working etc, etc.

He talks about learning lessons from the Euros but we had already learned from the unbeaten run and then the first WC qualies but not really done anything positive about it. The lessons were learnt before the 3 Euro games and then seemingly thrown out the window. The Euros were a 3game knockout league and we approached it like a PL/EPL league programme without the urgency to look for a win from the kick-off - not after the opposition scores and paid the price for it.

He may be committed but he needs to show improvement in his team selection, tactics, formations and ability to change things or his reputation and standing will dive dramatically and we'll be back into the wilderness again....🥴

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, gkm_vancouver said:

 

He obviously did make a lot of progress in his first year  by stopping the gubbings,

Who did he stop from gubbing us?

Who have we beaten during the progress he has made?

 

[Texas Pete]

6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Who did he stop from gubbing us?

Who have we beaten during the progress he has made?

 

We’ve beaten the Czechs twice, Slovakia once and a handful of shite teams. We’ve also beaten Israel and Serbia on penalties.

I suppose the big question is whether any of that is an improvement. The answer is probably not. 

The only thing that gives me hope is we were very good against Serbia for most of the game although we conceded a late equaliser. If we can beat Austria away then I’ll believe Clarke is on to something.

[ceudmilefailte]

3 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

We’ve beaten the Czechs twice, Slovakia once and a handful of shite teams. We’ve also beaten Israel and Serbia on penalties.

I suppose the big question is whether any of that is an improvement. The answer is probably not. 

The only thing that gives me hope is we were very good against Serbia for most of the game although we conceded a late equaliser. If we can beat Austria away then I’ll believe Clarke is on to something.

I knew who we had beaten, basically nobody.

The only teams on paper that could have gubbed were Croatia(who did) and England who I would imagine won't play as badly as they did against us in the rest of the Euro's. Hopefully that will just be one more game.

Parity with Slovakia and Israel is hardly progress.

I honestly thought that after Clarke changed his game plan at half time against Israel and brought the three youngsters in for the Euro's he might be be the answer and we were getting away from the mistakes he had already made.

 I stopped thinking that after 10 minutes against Croatia.

If we beat Austria he will have won one game of note. (not counting penalty shootouts)

[Texas Pete]

Just now, ceudmilefailte said:

I knew who we had beaten, basically nobody.

The only teams on paper that could have gubbed were Croatia(who did) and England who I would imagine won't play as badly as they did against us in the rest of the Euro's. Hopefully that will just be one more game.

Parity with Slovakia and Israel is hardly progress.

I honestly thought that after Clarke changed his game plan at half time against Israel and brought the three youngsters in for the Euro's he might be be the answer and we were getting away from the mistakes he had already made.

 I stopped thinking that after 10 minutes against Croatia.

If we beat Austria he will have won one game of note. (not counting penalty shootouts)

I figured that but you did ask. 

[ceudmilefailte]

2 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I figured that but you did ask. 

In a manner that was meant to suggest nobody of note.

End of the day we are stuck with him and you never know he might be the manager who works out how to get 11 well paid professional footballers to gel together for 90 minutes. 

Other managers have done it with less.

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said:

In a manner that was meant to suggest nobody of note.

End of the day we are stuck with him and you never know he might be the manager who works out how to get 11 well paid professional footballers to gel together for 90 minutes. 

Other managers have done it with less.

It’s not rocket science. Play an attacking formation at home and show these teams at our level who’s boss and do what we need to do grab some points away from home. 

If Clarke is going to play like a pussy at home and drop points to teams we can beat then he’ll soon be out of a job. 

[gkm_vancouver]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Who did he stop from gubbing us?

Who have we beaten during the progress he has made?

 

If you don't think he made progress in his first year then fine but I think he did. From getting gubbings by Kazakhstan, Slovakia, England and the first of the Belgium 4-0s on a fairly regular basis with not much hope of even reaching 3rd spot in a qualifying group we then - after getting the beatings we knew we would get from Russia/Belgium - went on a 9 game unbeaten run. Maybe not top tier teams but Czech Republic twice, Slovakia and then the two Nations Cup games where we showed a lot of resolve, played with more confidence and to come back after a late equaliser and coolness in scoring 10 penalties - don't you think that was progress?? Of course it was an improvement and got us into a tournament. Tell me why it isn't?

I am then saying that we have then not progressed since Serbia and if anything have gone backwards with performances, tactics and displays, even if we have brought some good players into the squad. Failing to beat Israel, two home draws in qualies and now a run of only 2 wins in 10 games I'm struggling to see - apart from the Gilmour factor - how Clarke can demonstrate he's got what it takes to get us to another tourney. It could well depend on Gilmour bringing the best out of the team and getting a supporting midfield of McGinn, Fraser and Turnbull to Adams /Nisbet up front all knocking in a few goals. Time will tell.

Edited June 26, 2021 by gkm_vancouver

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, gkm_vancouver said:

If you don't think he made progress in his first year then fine but I think he did. From getting gubbings by Kazakhstan, Slovakia, England and the first of the Belgium 4-0s on a fairly regular basis with not much hope of even reaching 3rd spot in a qualifying group we then went on a 9 game unbeaten run. Maybe not top tier teams but Czech Republic twice, Slovakia and then the two Nations Cup games where we showed a lot of resolve, played with more confidence and to come back after a late equaliser and coolness in scoring 10 penalties - don't you think that was progress?? Of course it was an improvement and got us into a tournament. Tell me why it isn't?

I am then saying that we have then not progressed since Serbia and if anything have gone backwards with performances, tactics and displays, even if we have brought some good players into the squad. Failing to beat Israel, two home draws in qualies and now a run of only 2 wins in 10 games I'm struggling to see - apart from the Gilmour factor - how Clarke can demonstrate he's got what it takes to get us to another tourney. It could well depend on Gilmour bringing the best out of the team and getting a supporting midfield of McGinn, Fraser and Turnbull to Adams /Nisbet up front all knocking in a few goals. Time will tell.

Yeah I’d agree to an extent. It’s an improvement but probably not the improvement we all want. It’s certainly an improvement from getting pumped from Kazakhstan but then that wasn’t happening under Strachan. Let’s see what happens in September. 

[Mickey The Brave]

11 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

If you don't think he made progress in his first year then fine but I think he did. From getting gubbings by Kazakhstan, Slovakia, England and the first of the Belgium 4-0s on a fairly regular basis with not much hope of even reaching 3rd spot in a qualifying group we then - after getting the beatings we knew we would get from Russia/Belgium - went on a 9 game unbeaten run. Maybe not top tier teams but Czech Republic twice, Slovakia and then the two Nations Cup games where we showed a lot of resolve, played with more confidence and to come back after a late equaliser and coolness in scoring 10 penalties - don't you think that was progress?? Of course it was an improvement and got us into a tournament. Tell me why it isn't?

I am then saying that we have then not progressed since Serbia and if anything have gone backwards with performances, tactics and displays, even if we have brought some good players into the squad. Failing to beat Israel, two home draws in qualies and now a run of only 2 wins in 10 games I'm struggling to see - apart from the Gilmour factor - how Clarke can demonstrate he's got what it takes to get us to another tourney. It could well depend on Gilmour bringing the best out of the team and getting a supporting midfield of McGinn, Fraser and Turnbull to Adams /Nisbet up front all knocking in a few goals. Time will tell.

I think the managerial merry-go-round that we have been on since the last manager who led us to qualification (excluding back door routes) is a huge part of the problem. We can’t keep resetting and starting afresh with a new manager every few years, every time something goes slightly awry. A team of our level is going to have a lot of bumps in the road. Getting back up the pecking order is not going to be easy, pretty, or necessarily all in an upward direction, without any blips. Constantly chopping and changing managers has got us nowhere. We have to have some patience and trust, and stick with a manager, and give them the opportunity to build a successful squad. And I’m talking sticking with them for years and years and years. International managers have such little time to work directly with their players. It takes a lot of time for them to implement their ideas and impose their personality and ethos on the team. A Scotland manager’s job should be an 8 to 10 year job minimum, in my opinion. It’s not as if we are appointing rookies. These are people who have proven themselves at several different clubs. We shouldn’t be throwing them back out the door the first time a result or performance isn’t perfect.

[Rolling hIlls]

Clarke is an intelligent guy who will learn from his mistakes.  We have a decent squad barring a couple of players.  I still have faith in him to get us better.  IMO.

[kumnio]

10 year minimum FFS 😂😂😂😂😂

[Mickey The Brave]

Just now, kumnio said:

10 year minimum FFS 😂😂😂😂😂

Like I said, the managerial merry-go-round is getting us nowhere, and in my opinion is part of the problem.

We’re already appointing the most experienced Scottish managers available, who have proven themselves previously and learned their trade at various clubs, so we should then leave them to it, and see where they take us.

It needs to be a long term project of ‘Can you move us back into the top 20 teams in Europe?’ rather than the short term and short-sighted approach that we seem to have adopted of ‘Can you help us qualify for the next tournament? No? Thank you, next.’

In fact, ‘Thank you, next’ is a total fallacy,  normally our managers depart on the back of a barrage of insults, criticisms and complete character assassination.

[Rolling hIlls]

45 minutes ago, Mickey The Brave said:

Like I said, the managerial merry-go-round is getting us nowhere, and in my opinion is part of the problem.

We’re already appointing the most experienced Scottish managers available, who have proven themselves previously and learned their trade at various clubs, so we should then leave them to it, and see where they take us.

It needs to be a long term project of ‘Can you move us back into the top 20 teams in Europe?’ rather than the short term and short-sighted approach that we seem to have adopted of ‘Can you help us qualify for the next tournament? No? Thank you, next.’

In fact, ‘Thank you, next’ is a total fallacy,  normally our managers depart on the back of a barrage of insults, criticisms and complete character assassination.

Agree.  I trust Clarke for the long term.  Each to their own opinion though.  Some folk/supporters would have him sacked tomorrow and have no idea of who would replace him.

[mccaughey85]

On 6/24/2021 at 8:29 PM, ProudScot said:

His record is absolutely pish. 

He’s got better players than any manager since Craig Brown in the mid 90’s and we get outplayed and/or horsed by teams like Israel very regularly.

He needs to get the youth, who are the best options in their position anyway, into the side ASAP & if he does so then atleast we will go into the next round of games with a little bit more hope and positivity than just now.

It was great to qualify, we qualified because the nations league presented us with a very simple route, not because we have a good manager who took us there. 

lol horsed by israel, when did that happen?

[thesaint]

16 hours ago, gkm_vancouver said:

I don't think anyone has said sack him until you did so that's a bit strong. However he is being criticized and rightly so as we should have been capable of playing better and getting better results from that tournament.

He obviously did make a lot of progress in his first year  by stopping the gubbings, shoring up the defence. getting a Tierney/Robbo formation, going on a long 10 game unbeaten run and most importantly, finding a way to get us to a major tourney - which he should always be recognised and commended on.

What I find frustrating is that since the Serbia game after which I'm sure he said he was now looking to build on that success by finding different ways to win games, competing against better teams and winning by more than an odd goal, we seem to have done the opposite. We immediately lost 2 very winnable games, struggled in the first WC qualifiers to get a win before the Faroes but had a decent friendly against the Netherlands. He'd introduced some good additions to the squad on Adams, Gilmour, Turnbull, Patterson. Nisbet and brought Hanley back. But he's lost momentum with unbeaten games and performance levels; not really capitalized on the excellent Tierney runs we saw pre-tourney; not used our quality midfield to try and run games more rather than reverting to punts up to Dykes; not found a decent alternative to the 5-3-2 formation; only played a consistent team after the England team when Croatia game was crying out for a different approach and then crucially not changing things when it obviously wasn't working etc, etc.

He talks about learning lessons from the Euros but we had already learned from the unbeaten run and then the first WC qualies but not really done anything positive about it. The lessons were learnt before the 3 Euro games and then seemingly thrown out the window. The Euros were a 3game knockout league and we approached it like a PL/EPL league programme without the urgency to look for a win from the kick-off - not after the opposition scores and paid the price for it.

He may be committed but he needs to show improvement in his team selection, tactics, formations and ability to change things or his reputation and standing will dive dramatically and we'll be back into the wilderness again....🥴

Agree with every point you have made.It should be obvious to anybody that Steve Clarke seems to be stuck in the same mindset,no matter what happens in the game.I don't want him sacked,but i certainly do want him to learn that in certain situations in games you have to change the way the team are set up.A bit more positivity in going forward is a must for starters.We have to WIN games,or at least have our team set up in a formation that at least gives us a chance to win.Don't know if it's his ego or he's just stupidly stubborn{probably the latter},but he will definately need to accept that sometimes he will have to vary from his original thoughts on tactics,for the good of the team.Here's hoping,surely he must see that a more positive approach is required.

[gkm_vancouver]

37 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Agree with every point you have made.It should be obvious to anybody that Steve Clarke seems to be stuck in the same mindset,no matter what happens in the game.I don't want him sacked,but i certainly do want him to learn that in certain situations in games you have to change the way the team are set up.A bit more positivity in going forward is a must for starters.We have to WIN games,or at least have our team set up in a formation that at least gives us a chance to win.Don't know if it's his ego or he's just stupidly stubborn{probably the latter},but he will definately need to accept that sometimes he will have to vary from his original thoughts on tactics,for the good of the team.Here's hoping,surely he must see that a more positive approach is required.

Aye here's hoping for his sake as he is in distinct danger of doing a Mourinho and slagging everyone else off and coming across as a smart-arse. Compare him with the Welsh manager Page,  what a difference and Page earns a lot more respect IMO. 

[morrie21]

Big fan of Steve Clarke but undoubtedly some things during the Euro 2020 campaign could have been done better. It's all about learning though. As long as he takes things on-board and doesn't show the same reluctance to change in future when things are not going our way. Amazing example from yesterday was the Denmark game. Wales were the better side for the opening 10/15mins, Denmark's manager changed his formation at that point - extra man into the midfield - and from there the game was won for them. Excellent coaching. I hope Clarke was paying attention.

[ceudmilefailte]

5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

lol horsed by israel, when did that happen?

Sunday 21st of March 7:45--8:30

 

Switch off now for the boring stats bit.

 

 

First half stats             Israel                                 Scotland       Second half stats       Israel                          Scotland

Shots at goal       8 (3 on target)                     4 (0 on target)                                6(0 on target)                    9(3 on target)

Possession                 61%                                   39%                                                 48%                                    52%

Pass Success             89 %                                 83%                                                  83%                                    83%

Edited June 27, 2021 by ceudmilefailte

[Mickey The Brave]

12 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Sunday 21st of March 7:45--8:30

 

Switch off now for the boring stats bit.

 

 

First half stats             Israel                                 Scotland       Second half stats       Israel                          Scotland

Shots at goal       8 (3 on target)                     4 (0 on target)                                6(0 on target)                    9(3 on target)

Possession                 61%                                   39%                                                 48%                                    52%

Pass Success             89 %                                 83%                                                  83%                                    83%

I think you might be conveniently omitting one important stat - the one that most people would use in their definition of a ‘horsing.’

[ProudScot]

God is Mickey the latest re-incarnation of Chripper 

[Mickey The Brave]

13 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

God is Mickey the latest re-incarnation of Chripper 

No. That’s not me. What makes you say that?

[ProudScot]

36 minutes ago, Mickey The Brave said:

No. That’s not me. What makes you say that?

Taylor 1996 seems very very quiet/banned.

TDK/Chripper/Taylor posting is very obvious to spot. 

Maybe i’m wrong…