Coronavirus

[phart]

2 hours ago, Orraloon said:

That's not how vaccines work though. Very few vaccines will give 100% of people vaccinated total immunity. With most vaccines not everybody will be immune and nobody will be immune forever. Depending on the virus, we need different proportions of the population to be vaccinated to give a sufficient level of population immunity to drive the number of infections down to a level where the virus is under control.  

Exactly. A cargo-cult understanding of the science behind immunisation goes hand in hand with a mistrust for them.

[phart]

2 hours ago, slasher said:

100% this. If they do make it compulsory I think they'll have a fight on their hands. 

It shouldn't be compulsory , compelling folk to do anything like this is counter-productive.

 

[phart]

I'd like to see the scientific argument behind the non-efficacy of immunisation, beyond some localised fuck-ups. Like a couple of dozen problems with vaccines in the third world, or the CIA setting up fake Vaccination programmes to collect genetic material/hunt for Osama bin Laden. Cutter incident, VAPP incidents in India etc.

Edited July 27, 2020 by phart

[Orraloon]

3 hours ago, slasher said:

100% this. If they do make it compulsory I think they'll have a fight on their hands. 

Who is talking about making it compulsory? We haven't even got one yet. They might never develop a vaccine that works.

[phart]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Who is talking about making it compulsory? We haven't even got one yet. They might never develop a vaccine that works.

"them" and "they" whoever that is. Government I imagine.

[slasher]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Who is talking about making it compulsory? We haven't even got one yet. They might never develop a vaccine that works.

Let me put it another way, I'll be at the back of the queue in blind acceptance of being told what is good for me by the authorities. I'll make my own decision.... if I'm allowed? 

[kumnio]

6 hours ago, slasher said:

100% this. If they do make it compulsory I think they'll have a fight on their hands. 

When have vaccines ever been compulsory? People arent being dragged off the street and forcibly mutilated by needle, have they? What a dystopian world we live in.

[kumnio]

7 hours ago, thplinth said:

No such thing as anti vaccine. Just another lazy pejorative. They believe some vaccines are unsafe due to the methods by which they are manufactured. No one is anti vaccine if they believed they were safe.

What I find curious is the 'pro vaxxers' all get vaccinated and so are now presumably safe.... but that is not enough for them... they have to force it on people who choose not to have it. The only people who are endangered are fellow people who don't want a vaccine. But no we are not forcing them... only going to deny them medical treatment if they don't get it, stop them flying, shit like that.

Yeah let's go down that road... how about fat cunts not getting medical treatment for all the ailments their lifestyle choices has made, Type II diabetes etc... Those choices were not even based on a genuine fear of vaccine damage... just being a fat lazy overeating cunt. Or smokers... or drinkers... they still get treatment but not someone who does not inject themselves with something you say they have to.

Do you get all you lifetime's contribution NHS tax money back then if you decide to opt out of the vaccine?

How can people be so fucking stupid to trust these big pharmaceutical companies. Mugs.

As a fat cunt, im aware of the issues that could arise. But the tax and vat on mars bars and irn bru should mean I deserve my treatment. My fat cuntedness could kill me, but its not going to infect the chap sitting next to me, and kill him, unless I fall on him from a good height.

No one is forcing anti vaxxers to get the treatment, where does this nonsense come from? Its internet nonsense that doesn't exist in the real world. Youre also giving them far too much praise if you think they have looked at evidence and came to a conclusion that its not safe, the majority of these people are borderline idiots who believe the illuminati government are trying to control them using Bill Gates' money, in a left wing war on freedom, or some other such pish.

Why should anyone believe medical advice, given by medical companies, government institutes and independent bodies on medical issues, when they can believe Jenny McCarthy and other such experts.

Getting vaccinated doesn't guarantee safety, but it gives an element of protection the general population. Get the treatment that doesn't exist yet, or dont get it, thats up to you.

[thplinth]

5 hours ago, kumnio said:

As a fat cunt, im aware of the issues that could arise. But the tax and vat on mars bars and irn bru should mean I deserve my treatment. My fat cuntedness could kill me, but its not going to infect the chap sitting next to me, and kill him, unless I fall on him from a good height.

No one is forcing anti vaxxers to get the treatment, where does this nonsense come from? Its internet nonsense that doesn't exist in the real world. Youre also giving them far too much praise if you think they have looked at evidence and came to a conclusion that its not safe, the majority of these people are borderline idiots who believe the illuminati government are trying to control them using Bill Gates' money, in a left wing war on freedom, or some other such pish.

Why should anyone believe medical advice, given by medical companies, government institutes and independent bodies on medical issues, when they can believe Jenny McCarthy and other such experts.

Getting vaccinated doesn't guarantee safety, but it gives an element of protection the general population. Get the treatment that doesn't exist yet, or dont get it, thats up to you.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/29/government-seriously-considering-compulsory-vaccinations-matt-hancock

That was months before we'd even heard about covid 19.

 

[Orraloon]

I think that arguing about whether COVID19 vaccinations should be compulsory or not, would be a very nice dilema to have.

 

[Orraloon]

7 hours ago, slasher said:

Let me put it another way, I'll be at the back of the queue in blind acceptance of being told what is good for me by the authorities. I'll make my own decision.... if I'm allowed? 

Do you wear a face mask when you go into a shop?

[slasher]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Do you wear a face mask when you go into a shop?

Wearing a face mask is a minor inconvenience which may or may not be helpful in stopping the spread of Covid. Having unknown chemicals injected into my bloodstream is another matter so your question is an irrelevance. 

[thplinth]

5 hours ago, kumnio said:

As a fat cunt, im aware of the issues that could arise. But the tax and vat on mars bars and irn bru should mean I deserve my treatment. My fat cuntedness could kill me, but its not going to infect the chap sitting next to me, and kill him, unless I fall on him from a good height.

No one is forcing anti vaxxers to get the treatment, where does this nonsense come from? Its internet nonsense that doesn't exist in the real world. Youre also giving them far too much praise if you think they have looked at evidence and came to a conclusion that its not safe, the majority of these people are borderline idiots who believe the illuminati government are trying to control them using Bill Gates' money, in a left wing war on freedom, or some other such pish.

Why should anyone believe medical advice, given by medical companies, government institutes and independent bodies on medical issues, when they can believe Jenny McCarthy and other such experts.

Getting vaccinated doesn't guarantee safety, but it gives an element of protection the general population. Get the treatment that doesn't exist yet, or dont get it, thats up to you.

Well I think it is different if you are talking about you taking it voluntarily as an (healthy if admittedly portly ) adult.

If you dont believe that vaccine damage exists then of course you dont see any risks involved in them. If you do however then it might alter your views a little and especially if it is about injecting your young child with them. (The thing that made me think twice about it was listening to parents' testimonies (many years ago now). I found them very hard to dismiss.)

I also approach it with the view that big pharmaceutical companies are just as cynical and ruthless as big tobacco companies are. Just look at the opioid crisis in the US... do you think they honestly give a fuck about the collateral damage of their products (beyond getting sued for it). In the US they successfully lobbied to make it impossible to sue them for damage caused by vaccines.

Anyway the whole 'debate' is very reminiscent of the global warming debate. I am surprised they are not calling them 'vaccine deniers' yet.

There is a lot more to it as well as the money involved in this is off the charts. RFK Jnr is a guy who tries to raise awareness of this and would be a decent introduction to understanding their concerns. Make of it what you will.

[kumnio]

40 minutes ago, thplinth said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/29/government-seriously-considering-compulsory-vaccinations-matt-hancock

That was months before we'd even heard about covid 19.

Matt Hancock has four opinions on what side a 50p piece would land on, definitely heads, definitely tails, definitely land on the edge, and definitely something else.

Theres no way any government would look at passing a bill to implement compulsory vaccinations, let alone this government. If we ever get to a place where its being seriously discussed then Id be staggered, it simply wont happen.

[Orraloon]

9 minutes ago, slasher said:

Wearing a face mask is a minor inconvenience which may or may not be helpful in stopping the spread of Covid. Having unknown chemicals injected into my bloodstream is another matter so your question is an irrelevance. 

Why do you wear a face mask?

Is it because you want to, or because you think it's the right thing to do, or because you have been told you have to?

Did you wear one before it was made mandatory?

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Orraloon

[kumnio]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

If you dont believe that vaccine damage exists then of course you dont see any risks involved in them. If you do however then it might alter your views a little and especially if it is about injecting your young child with them. (The thing that made me think twice about it was listening to parents' testimonies (many years ago now). I found them very hard to dismiss.)

About 9 years ago, my mate had a head on collision with another driver. Both survived, the other guy was fine, absolutely no damage, my mate has permanent eye damage, his vision is utterly shite now. The explosive that inflates the airbag sometimes goes through the airbag, and into the drivers eyes, usually its a minor issue, rarely its a life changing event, but this was one of these times.

Airbags work great 99.99% of the time, sure there are the odd horror stories, but its the exception, not the rule. Of course with vaccines you will get the odd story, but you will never hear about the 10000 positive stories to the 1 negative.

[kumnio]

11 minutes ago, slasher said:

Wearing a face mask is a minor inconvenience which may or may not be helpful in stopping the spread of Covid. Having unknown chemicals injected into my bloodstream is another matter so your question is an irrelevance. 

You have unknown chemicals in your system 90% of the time you eat or drink something.

If companies wanted to fuck us up, theres easier ways that using vaccines.

[slasher]

24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Why do you wear a face mask?

Already covered that I believe 

Is it because you want to, or because you think it's the right thing to do, or because you have been told you have to?

That's the same question 

Did you wear one before it was made mandatory?

No

 

 

 

[Orraloon]

We don't even have a vaccine yet. If we ever do get one the problem won't be persuading folk to take it. The problem will be manufacturing and distributing enough doses for everybody who wants one. They will be rationed. They will be given to those deemed to be most in need first. 

I look at each situation on it's own merits. If we get a COVID19 vaccine, I will read up about the studies done on it before deciding if I want to get one or not. I am not in favour of making things compulsory unless there is a very good reason to do so. For example, I am totally against adding fluoride to water supplies.

[thplinth]

39 minutes ago, kumnio said:

You have unknown chemicals in your system 90% of the time you eat or drink something.

If companies wanted to fuck us up, theres easier ways that using vaccines.

I dont think it would be deliberate. This was written in 1996.

I am not interested in the 'debate' did it cause cancers or not I quote it just because it is an insight into what might go wrong and maybe is going wrong.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15120442-400-science-polio-vaccine-linked-to-cancer/

A MONKEY virus that contaminated millions of doses of polio vaccine has been
directly implicated in triggering cancer. The virus, SV40, which scientists have
found in several types of tumour, destroys a key defence mechanism by switching
off a protein that protects cells against cancerous changes.

In 1961, SV40 was discovered in the kidney cells of macaques used to culture
the polio virus for vaccines. By that time, more than 90 million people in the
US and more in the former Soviet Union had been vaccinated against polio in the
aftermath of the great epidemic of the 1940s and 1950s.

So this particular vaccine was 'cultured' using the kidney cells of Macaques. Using other animals is not uncommon. It is pretty gross in a way and you can now understand how taking something out of a monkey and injecting it into your or your child's arm might actually come with higher risks than you realized.

The Monkey Virus was only discovered only after 90+ million people were injected with it as part of the polio vaccine. Wow.

Now you imagine the litigation were it proven it did cause a significantly higher rate of cancers... or autism or whatever they are linked to these days... these companies would throw unlimited sums at squashing that claim before it gets started and destroy the careers of anyone who suggests it. Which is kind of what we see. 

I don't claim to know one way or the other but I think the risks could well be much higher than we are told. And you don't need any greater explanation for it than $$$$.

Edited July 28, 2020 by thplinth

[kumnio]

10 minutes ago, thplinth said:

I dont think it would be deliberate. This was written in 1996.

I am not interested in the 'debate' did it cause cancers or not I quote it just because it is an insight into what might go wrong and maybe is going wrong.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15120442-400-science-polio-vaccine-linked-to-cancer/

So it may, in part, kill 20'000 after between 10 and 30 million have been vaccinated. You may or may not want to debate it, thats fine, but its a may, is there a report on what it actually did?

Its also based on something that happened between 50 and 60 years ago, science has moved on quite a bit since then.

Theres almost nothing we do that doesn't have a risk attached to it, and I haven't read anything that makes me believe that vaccines are too risky to be a bad thing.

[thplinth]

4 minutes ago, kumnio said:

So it may, in part, kill 20'000 after between 10 and 30 million have been vaccinated. You may or may not want to debate it, thats fine, but its a may, is there a report on what it actually did?

Its also based on something that happened between 50 and 60 years ago, science has moved on quite a bit since then.

Theres almost nothing we do that doesn't have a risk attached to it, and I haven't read anything that makes me believe that vaccines are too risky to be a bad thing.

And it will again. Medicine in a hundred years time will look back on medicine today as it views itself a hundred years ago.

How many vaccines were there 50-60 years ago compared to today is another factor.

Anyway I certainly am not attempting to convince you or anyone. I would not want that responsibility. Do what you think is best for you. I can however understand why some people might prefer not to have it. I would be very against it being mandatory for that reason.

[Rolling hIlls]

14 minutes ago, thplinth said:

And it will again. Medicine in a hundred years time will look back on medicine today as it views itself a hundred years ago.

How many vaccines were there 50-60 years ago compared to today is another factor.

Anyway I certainly am not attempting to convince you or anyone. I would not want that responsibility. Do what you think is best for you. I can however understand why some people might prefer not to have it. I would be very against it being mandatory for that reason.

Drink whisky is my answer.  The cowboys used to take their bullets out with it.

[phart]

Being fat and vaccines aren't comparable. Fat isn't infectious in which herd immunity helps protect against other people getting fat etc.

If you don't use mass spectrometry to determine the chemichal composition of everything you take then everything you put in your mouth is an unknown, nestle are subjectively more immoral than Big Pharma, so the next question would be why cherry pick what concerns you. Why put more weight into one product than the other. When you have the same ignorance of the composition. It's the same evidence but a different reaction, what is the source of the difference?

Yeah that Polio vaccine is the Cutter incident i referenced above. Bad mistake. I take it no one eats lettuce, poultry or beef cause of the numerous ecoli recalls over the years.

[Kirk]

On 7/25/2020 at 6:25 PM, jcs said:

I find it both shocking and abhorrent that Palestinian prisoners have no right to social distancing protection, totally abhorrent, as human right are surely being contravened, what a shit world when a religion who suffered cruelty beyond belief in the 2nd world war, can now think the fact that people who have a different deity belief from themselves have no rights to protection from a life threatening disease 

Israel are cunts, as simple as that

20 hours ago, phart said:

Funnily enough Lewis Hamilton is anti-vaxx, or posted anti-vaxx info at least a day or so ago, just as PAIK was stopping reading articles that had his name mentioned.

lewis hamilton is also a cunt