Coronavirus

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I get that to an extent. Would you feel safer on the terrace at Arbroath or in the stand at Tannadice, for example, or in a small room with 33 children for 6 hours? Teacher's unions are already calling for not returning back after the holiday.

Obviously you'd feel safer outdoors but football is not important when compared educating children.

 

[killiefaetheferry]

5 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Obviously you'd feel safer outdoors but football is not important when compared educating children.

 

Agreed. Are we happy that education must continue face to face in classrooms regardless of the spread of Omicron, though?

[Lamia]

18 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

I get that to an extent. Would you feel safer on the terrace at Arbroath or in the stand at Tannadice, for example, or in a small room with 33 children for 6 hours? Teacher's unions are already calling for not returning back after the holiday.

Of course I would feel safer at the football but as I said that is a straw man.

[Morrisandmoo]

The main issue for me is that it’s probably too late to make a meaningful difference to the peak spike, with further 27th Dec measures. High cost vs low benefit generally equals a bad idea.

The case for measures is much weaker now than at the start of the month.

If England hold their nerve (which they rarely do) then we will see the value of these extra measures play out. 

[killiefaetheferry]

I am saying the above as someone who continued to deliver face to face learning to vulnerable children and the children of key workers during the lockdowns in 'hubs', whilst providing online home learning for all the other learners in my class. 

[Lamia]

1 minute ago, Morrisandmoo said:

The main issue for me is that it’s probably too late to make a meaningful difference to the peak spike, with further 27th Dec measures. High cost vs low benefit generally equals a bad idea.

The case for measures is much weaker now than at the start of the month.

If England hold their nerve (which they rarely do) then we will see the value of these extra measures play out. 

Agreed!

[vanderark14]

6 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Agreed. Are we happy that education must continue face to face in classrooms regardless of the spread of Omicron, though?

I don't know enough to answer, I can only assume the politicians think the answer is yes. If I worked as a teacher or within a school I'd probably feel different

 

[killiefaetheferry]

1 minute ago, Lamia said:

Of course I would feel safer at the football but as I said that is a straw man.

Ok, fair enough. Do you think schools should operate as 'normal' after the holidays?

[killiefaetheferry]

20 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

I don't know enough to answer, I can only assume the politicians think the answer is yes. If I worked as a teacher or within a school I'd probably feel different

 

And that's clearly why I'm animated about this. I'm in a school and I'm concerned about my own and my colleagues' health and safety. I don't fully agree that in these circumstances it's a 'straw man' to juxtapose the way schools have been treated with the decisions made about sport, hospitality and entertainment. Unless that's exactly what a straw man means 😂. If I wasn't a teacher I might be able to stand back a bit and think differently, but right now I'm feeling expendable in the cause of political expediency, sadly.

[Squirrelhumper]

This is sturgeon at her most comfortable - nice and cautious, appearing sensible, playing up to the 'mother of the nation' persona. She's on safe ground. Doesnt have a forward thinking bone in her body. Rarely seen a leader with less political courage. As I said earlier, no chance we'll get independence with her as leader.

[Squirrelhumper]

The decision to keep schools open this week is laughable. Nothing but contempt for teachers. I can see (and dont blame them) striking in the new year.

[aaid]

People who frame this as “why isn’t it safe to go to football where’s it’s safe to do whatever else there aren’t restrictions on” completely miss the point.

This virus is transmitted by human interaction, mostly airborne.  That means that unless you live in a hermetically sealed bubble *nowhere* is completely safe.  What you can do is take mitigation actions to reduce the risk of transmission. Some of those are general, eg, 2 metre social distancing, masks, hand hygiene.  Some will be specific to specific environments, eg ventilation, “traffic” flow in supermarkets, perplex screens in shops, etc.

Last year these were the only measures we had and so we had several lockdowns.

We now have a population with high vaccine take up.   No-one, at least no-one that should be listened to said that it would guarantee immunity or there would not be a need to have regular boosters.

What being vaccinated does though is two things, first of all it massively reduces the chances of you being infected should you come into contact with someone who has it and that across the population will reduce transmission.  Secondly, it reduces the chances that if you do get infected you will get a serious infection which will mean that you won’t be hospitalised, which is good for you obviously but across the population will reduce the strain on the NHS.

Governments across the world have to make decisions on what they think are the priorities.  The Scottish Government have decided their two top priorities are to stop the NHS being overwhelmed and to keep the schools open.  People  can argue about whether those are the right priorities or whether they should be prioritised the economy for example.  However that basic point applies that if you prioritise one area, you deprioritise.

Modellers then make complex calculations which say that if you want to keep control of the NHS and keep schools open then you need to get the predicted transmission rate down to such and such a rate and that you can achieve that by doing ABC or XYZ.  The government then makes value judgements on whether to do ABC or XYZ.  The question is never why can’t I do ABC but people are still doing XYZ, the question is why choose ABC and not XYZ.

Even then, the virus might decide not to play ball and any restrictions may need to be extended or further ones introduced.

Obviously I’m oversimplifying what is a very complex process and involves very difficult decisions by politicians who know that no matter what decision they take, some people are going to be seriously impacted, which is the sort of decisions politicians don’t like to make,

In summary and specific to schools.  The government has prioritised keeping schools open over everything else bar the NHS, the actions they are taking are designed to keep general population transmission down to a level that allows that to happen rather than making the school environment any safer than it currently is.   You can make a judgement about how effective schools have been during the period but schools have been open continuously - across the country - for the whole of this academic year when the Delta variant has been in general circulation.  Simply put, what the government is trying to do is to get Omicron down to the level of Delta - transmissions and hospitalisations - and so keep things going. 

[thplinth]

Kids would be fine but the teachers are the weakest link. You can't expect a 50+ years old person to stand in a confined space with 30+ kids for 6 hours a day. Totally wrong.

Edited December 22, 2021 by thplinth

[weekevie04]

Know quite a few SNP voters who are really annoyed by this. Not an election for ages, but I reckon they'll take a hit in the polls 

[CumbernauldJag]

Does anyone think they'll follow suit and reduce the isolation period to bring it in line with England or do you think they'll keep it at 10 days?

[King Of Paisley]

26 minutes ago, CumbernauldJag said:

Does anyone think they'll follow suit and reduce the isolation period to bring it in line with England or do you think they'll keep it at 10 days?

Seems like the SG are ready to follow suit according to the State Broadcaster

 

[phart]

 

[CumbernauldJag]

11 minutes ago, King Of Paisley said:

Seems like the SG are ready to follow suit according to the State Broadcaster

 

Im hoping they do. Would let the family have Christmas together. Mother and father in law are currently isolating and day 10 is Christmas day. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, thplinth said:

Kids would be fine but the teachers are the weakest link. You can't expect a 50+ years old person to stand in a confined space with 30+ kids for 6 hours a day. Totally wrong.

Agreed, Even more laughable this week when there are classes with a handful of kids in them as most parents not taking the risk about kids missing Christmas. 

To hell with the teachers though eh. 

[phart]

2 minutes ago, CumbernauldJag said:

Im hoping they do. Would let the family have Christmas together. Mother and father in law are currently isolating and day 10 is Christmas day. 

If they're passing LFT tests in the days up to it christmas day, not sure what huge difference the 24 hours is going to make if they did happen to attend on the day and that was day 10.

[Squirrelhumper]

54 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Know quite a few SNP voters who are really annoyed by this. Not an election for ages, but I reckon they'll take a hit in the polls 

Hopegully, they are far too comfortable just now. 

One of the reasons i never voted last election. Couldn't bring myself to vote SNP but certainly wasn't voting for anyone else. 

[CumbernauldJag]

8 minutes ago, phart said:

If they're passing LFT tests in the days up to it christmas day, not sure what huge difference the 24 hours is going to make if they did happen to attend on the day and that was day 10.

My Mrs wont go cause its breaking the rules.

[phart]

1 minute ago, CumbernauldJag said:

My Mrs wont go cause its breaking the rules.

Tell her someone called phart on the TAMB said it might be alright if they're passing tests in the 3 days previous.

I'm sure that'll convince her.

[CumbernauldJag]

1 minute ago, phart said:

Tell her someone called phart on the TAMB said it might be alright if they're passing tests in the 3 days previous.

I'm sure that'll convince her.

I wish haha

[phart]

1 minute ago, CumbernauldJag said:

I wish haha

Changes to the self-isolation rules in Scotland are being considered in a bid to ease pressure on public services, the deputy first minister has said.

Fully-vaccinated people who have coronavirus currently have to self-isolate for 10 days.

In England, that has been cut to a week for people who get negative lateral flow results on day six and day seven.

John Swinney said such a change could help tackle the "immediate threat" of public sector staff absences.

He told the BBC's Good Morning Scotland programme that reducing isolation periods was a measure "that would contribute" towards tackling staffing issues.

As KoP was saying up thread. Might be in with a shout!