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daviebee

Time to Ban Boxing?

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After yet another senseless ring death, can this "sport" be justified any longer?  Why despite advances in medical procedures and safety precautions are so many boxers still being killed or left seriously impaired?

Is it a simple stats thing, i.e. more fights therefore more risks of accidents?  Or, and I sincerely hope it's not the case, are some fights going on too long as boxing needs to be seen to compete with the (arguably) more exciting and dangerous UFC?

When Chris Eubank Jr's father and trainer is telling him to "aim for the body" cos his opponent was in an obvious bad way, why was the referee letting things go on?  Not that long ago in Edinburgh a young guy was hospitalised after the crowd were even shouting at the ref to stop things.  In this latest tragedy, boxer Patrick Day was "a mile behind" in his fight going into the final round.  Why let him continue then?  Maybe cos every boxer has "a puncher's chance"?

Boxing lets some nobodies become somebodies and escape a life of crime and poverty, but shouldn't society be evolving to the level where other choices should be open to these young folk?  Nobody should be earning a living by getting their head pounded.

There's an argument that it'll just go underground where there'll be less medical procedures in place, but there's ALREADY a thriving underground scene.  There'll always be a public willing to pay to watch 2 guys knock 7 bells out each other.

I used to be a boxing fan, back in the days of Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, etc.  You can't justify this any longer though.  It's not a sport.  You can play tennis, rugby, fitba, etc., but you can't "play" boxing.  Time for it to go IMO.

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Prize fighting has never been a sport.

If you're going to let folk drive cars or smoke you have to let them box, being deleterious is no reason for a ban.

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I definitely see the merits of banning boxing.

However, those that choose to box do so knowing the risks but still love doing it. Granted I'd bet boxers families would want it banned but at the end of the day they would be depriving loved ones of a part of their life very important to them. Sure it is bloody dangerous but where do we draw a line? Motor Sports probably has more deaths in it so do we ban that too? Cycling has seen deaths in the sport so should that go too? I am sure there are other sports out there that has caused fatalities too.

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12 hours ago, daviebee said:

After yet another senseless ring death, can this "sport" be justified any longer?  Why despite advances in medical procedures and safety precautions are so many boxers still being killed or left seriously impaired?

Is it a simple stats thing, i.e. more fights therefore more risks of accidents?  Or, and I sincerely hope it's not the case, are some fights going on too long as boxing needs to be seen to compete with the (arguably) more exciting and dangerous UFC?

When Chris Eubank Jr's father and trainer is telling him to "aim for the body" cos his opponent was in an obvious bad way, why was the referee letting things go on?  Not that long ago in Edinburgh a young guy was hospitalised after the crowd were even shouting at the ref to stop things.  In this latest tragedy, boxer Patrick Day was "a mile behind" in his fight going into the final round.  Why let him continue then?  Maybe cos every boxer has "a puncher's chance"?

Boxing lets some nobodies become somebodies and escape a life of crime and poverty, but shouldn't society be evolving to the level where other choices should be open to these young folk?  Nobody should be earning a living by getting their head pounded.

There's an argument that it'll just go underground where there'll be less medical procedures in place, but there's ALREADY a thriving underground scene.  There'll always be a public willing to pay to watch 2 guys knock 7 bells out each other.

I used to be a boxing fan, back in the days of Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, etc.  You can't justify this any longer though.  It's not a sport.  You can play tennis, rugby, fitba, etc., but you can't "play" boxing.  Time for it to go IMO.

Should we ban F1?

 

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Being deleterious certainly is a reason to ban something, or at least consider banning it.

Driving is a necessity of modern life and the vast majority of journeys undertaken  do not result in death or injury. The  purpose of boxing is to repeatedly hit your opponent in the head until you knock them out. We shouldn’t be surprised at the incidences of brain injury / death. 

Promote martial arts instead. Far more useful in a ficht anyway.

Smoking should be banned too. Only reason it isn’t is that people have been doing it for years and certain people make an awful lot of money out of it (a bit like boxing). If smoking never existed but someone invented it today, no way it would be allowed. 

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15 minutes ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

 

Smoking should be banned too. Only reason it isn’t is that people have been doing it for years and certain people make an awful lot of money out of it (a bit like boxing). If smoking never existed but someone invented it today, no way it would be allowed. 

Alcohol kills 22 folk a week in Scotland.

Ban it.

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20 minutes ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

Being deleterious certainly is a reason to ban something, or at least consider banning it.

 

sun bathing

High pressure jobs

shift work

i picked deleterious for a reason.

Traditional martial arts have been shown to be highly ineffective against people trained in boxing kickboxing wrestling and grappling (BJJ catch wrestling sambo etc)

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Best thing to come out of this will be making it safer and changing the culture around fighters getting battered beyond fights are stopped, not easy if that’s what fans are wanting to see 

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30 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Best thing to come out of this will be making it safer and changing the culture around fighters getting battered beyond fights are stopped, not easy if that’s what fans are wanting to see 

Therein lies the problem.  You could make headguards compulsory, but if you take away the risk of serious injury/death then that'll lessen boxing's appeal to many (sadly).

Maybe one way would be where someone is so far behind at the halfway point that the ref calls a halt as there'd be little point in continuing.  Also stop this nonsense of feeding an up-and-coming prospect a steady stream of easy opponents to build his record up, some of whom take the fight at very short notice.

As I said, I used to be a fight fan.  Just not sure how you can justify it in this day and age.

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7 minutes ago, daviebee said:

Therein lies the problem.  You could make headguards compulsory, but if you take away the risk of serious injury/death then that'll lessen boxing's appeal to many (sadly).

Maybe one way would be where someone is so far behind at the halfway point that the ref calls a halt as there'd be little point in continuing.  Also stop this nonsense of feeding an up-and-coming prospect a steady stream of easy opponents to build his record up, some of whom take the fight at very short notice.

As I said, I used to be a fight fan.  Just not sure how you can justify it in this day and age.

Counter intuitive I know but apparently having headguards increased the incidence of head injuries and that's why they stopped using them in amateur boxing.   It's a combination of the headguards restricting vision but also boxers not protecting their head enough as they think the headguard will be sufficient.  Basically, without headguards, boxers take more care. 

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3 minutes ago, aaid said:

Counter intuitive I know but apparently having headguards increased the incidence of head injuries and that's why they stopped using them in amateur boxing.   It's a combination of the headguards restricting vision but also boxers not protecting their head enough as they think the headguard will be sufficient.  Basically, without headguards, boxers take more care. 

Cheers - wasn't aware of that.

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In no particular order..

 

Eubank Snr's instruction to "go to the body" was not intended to protect Blackwell, he seen that punching to the head was not having the desired effect ie to stop Blackwell, so "going to the body" was a tactical, not humanitarian move

Headguards serve one purpose only, to protect against cuts, wearing them in professional boxing would make injuries worse not better -- Most serious injuries in Boxing as caused by an accumulation of punches, not the one punch KO, if you wear a headguard you will get hit more often as the headguard means you see the punch a split second later, that split second make all the difference when trying to avoid / block a punch --EDIT, just seen AAID already covered this above 🙂

Far from banning Boxing, I have just supported a campaign aiming to bring back Boxing in Schools in England at moment... I firmly and passionately believe that Boxing does way more good than harm -- I am not a parent, but I have a niece (12) and nephew (5) at school whom I dote on, I want both to get into Boxing asap -- For me Boxing teaches discipline, self control, respect, patience all much needed qualities in people -- A friend of mine at work who is a massive MMA fan said to me only yesterday that Britain would be a much better place if every child learned a martial art at school ....

None of this is to belittle the tragedy of Patrick Day and others, I personally have watched "live" as in on TV, 4 young men lose their lives as result on Boxing, and seen many more serious injuries -- But I will be at Farooq v MacGregor next month cheering both men on ...Boxing is the toughest, most brutal sport of all, of that there is no doubt, but that's only part of what Boxing is..

BTW, for anyone interested , this is the campaign I mention

https://glovesupknivesdown.co.uk/

Edited by Robbo `81

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3 hours ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Should we ban F1?

 

Or fitba or rugby

 

2 hours ago, Willie Miller's tache said:

 

Promote martial arts instead. Far more useful in a ficht anyway.

Nonsense 

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2 hours ago, Robbo `81 said:

In no particular order..

 

Eubank Snr's instruction to "go to the body" was not intended to protect Blackwell, he seen that punching to the head was not having the desired effect ie to stop Blackwell, so "going to the body" was a tactical, not humanitarian move

Headguards serve one purpose only, to protect against cuts, wearing them in professional boxing would make injuries worse not better -- Most serious injuries in Boxing as caused by an accumulation of punches, not the one punch KO, if you wear a headguard you will get hit more often as the headguard means you see the punch a split second later, that split second make all the difference when trying to avoid / block a punch --EDIT, just seen AAID already covered this above 🙂

Far from banning Boxing, I have just supported a campaign aiming to bring back Boxing in Schools in England at moment... I firmly and passionately believe that Boxing does way more good than harm -- I am not a parent, but I have a niece (12) and nephew (5) at school whom I dote on, I want both to get into Boxing asap -- For me Boxing teaches discipline, self control, respect, patience all much needed qualities in people -- A friend of mine at work who is a massive MMA fan said to me only yesterday that Britain would be a much better place if every child learned a martial art at school ....

None of this is to belittle the tragedy of Patrick Day and others, I personally have watched "live" as in on TV, 4 young men lose their lives as result on Boxing, and seen many more serious injuries -- But I will be at Farooq v MacGregor next month cheering both men on ...Boxing is the toughest, most brutal sport of all, of that there is no doubt, but that's only part of what Boxing is..

BTW, for anyone interested , this is the campaign I mention

https://glovesupknivesdown.co.uk/

Not according to any report I read.  Eubank Sr was also banging on the canvas trying to get the ref to stop it.  He was of course involved himself in one of the most high-profile tragedies ever and I'd imagine he wanted to avoid his son being in something similar.

So how would you make boxing safer and why does there seem to be more tragedies than ever?  Is it just a stats thing, cos we hear more in this age of 24/7 news, or is it something else?  Advances in medical care should mean it happens less often.

Should there be ringside hydration checks and pre-fight monitoring to make sure a boxer isn't losing too much weight too fast?  Why wasn't there something in place that would've prevented the utterly pointless death of Mike Towell, i.e. a fit young guy going to his GP with crippling head pains and the doctor being able to go straight to the BBBC and tell them to get his licence revoked instead of "advising" him not to box?

The campaign you're supporting could easily be done with 5 or 6-a-side fitba instead, getting rival gang members to work with their "enemies" on the same team.  Respect your commitment, but if it comes into schools it'll probably be a matter of time before we hear, "Nobody knew he had an abnormally thin skull..."

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, daviebee said:

Not according to any report I read.  Eubank Sr was also banging on the canvas trying to get the ref to stop it.  He was of course involved himself in one of the most high-profile tragedies ever and I'd imagine he wanted to avoid his son being in something similar.

After the fight, in my opinion, non boxing media misinterpreted Eubanks Snr's actions and the misconception spread so far and fast he had to go along with it, imo Eubank Snr's 1st, 2nd , 3rd etc etc concern was his son winning the fight

So how would you make boxing safer and why does there seem to be more tragedies than ever?  Is it just a stats thing, cos we hear more in this age of 24/7 news, or is it something else?  Advances in medical care should mean it happens less often.

Should there be ringside hydration checks and pre-fight monitoring to make sure a boxer isn't losing too much weight too fast? 

In a word, yes = Totally agree with this -- I would also bring back weighs on morning of fight, AND, a subsequent weigh in, at the venue say 1 hr before scheduled start time - If a Boxer is more than X percent above their weight that morning, they don't box.

My suggestion for improving safety in Boxing is this -- Change the rounds from 12 to either 13 or 11 -- My suggestion would be 13..

Scrap the "10 Point Must" scoring system and make it purely " who won the round?" -- But each Judge must pick Boxer A or B, there CANNOT be a drawn round..

The fight remains a 13 round fight BUT it is basically "1st one to seven" ie a soon a one fighter wins at least 7 rounds on at least 2 judges cards, the fight is stopped -- This would mean a guy who is getting "shut out", way behind on points, losing every round in current aparlance, would not be allowed to take a beating for 5 more rounds in a fight he has no chance of winning simply beacuse he allegedly has a "punchers chance"

 

2 hours ago, daviebee said:

 

Why wasn't there something in place that would've prevented the utterly pointless death of Mike Towell, i.e. a fit young guy going to his GP with crippling head pains and the doctor being able to go straight to the BBBC and tell them to get his licence revoked instead of "advising" him not to box?

This was very avoidable -- I think, but stand to be corrected, the Doctor wouldnt be allowed to discuss his concerns but could only advise the Boxer -- As harsh as it may sound, the ultimate onus is on the Boxer to declare any conditions / concerns to the BBB of C himself -- Too brave for his own good was tragically the case

 

The campaign you're supporting could easily be done with 5 or 6-a-side fitba instead, getting rival gang members to work with their "enemies" on the same team.  Respect your commitment, but if it comes into schools it'll probably be a matter of time before we hear, "Nobody knew he had an abnormally thin skull..."

I'll happily support anything to reduces gang violence - But when I talk about Boxing training I'm meaning from primary school aged 5, 7 or whatever before kids have- hopefully - even thought about being in gangs, but your final point is of course correct, there has to be proper controls and it have to be done, and funded, properly

 

 

 

 

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Not sure what reports were read but Eubank Sr doesn't speak about the Newell fight really here's what he did say though.

Eubank Snr declined to comment when The Daily Telegraph spoke to the former world champion.

The Guardian quoted Eubank Snr as saying to his son, late in the fight:

“If the referee doesn’t stop it, I don’t know what to tell you, but I will tell you this, if he doesn’t stop it, and you keep beating him like this, one, he’s getting hurt, two, if it goes to a decision, why hasn’t he stopped the fight? I don’t get why, so maybe you shouldn’t leave it to the referee. Now you’re not going to take him out to the face, you’re going to take him out to the body.”

It was a tactical move to finish the fight regardless of what reports have been read, as shown by the quote stated at the time, anything else is revisionism.

As stated headguards are worn to prevent cuts, obscure vision and encourage blocking with your face instead of slipping or parrying.

 

Boxing difference from MMA is there is no "timeout" when you sustain a hit hard enough to knock you down, in MMA you go down and if you're in a bad way you get finsihed soon after. In boxing you might get a concussive blow and then you get 10 seconds to gather yourself get back to your feet and "recover" and then the long term damage occurs as possible to get multiple concussion in one fight.

Also weight cutting. In MMA it's even more extreme cause of the huge jumps in weight class and it being prevalent in amatuer wrestling. Some folk are cutting 20-25lb , cutting weight is when you remove water from your body to lower your weight. This can affect health as well.

Also in regard to the reasoning for banning is it intent or result that is causing the banning. Are we wanting to ban it cause folk try and hurt each other or cause folk get killed? If it's the latter then the intent is irrelevant as it's the result we have a problem with, so if other things are causing more deaths per participant then the result is the same regardless of the intent.

Finally boxing has never been about maiming anyone.

 

Edited by phart

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hydration checks are useless. they test the bladder you can be completely dehydrated but have a full bladder and pass the hydration tests. Wrestlers have been beating these in the Olympics for decades.

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11 hours ago, phart said:

Prize fighting has never been a sport.

If you're going to let folk drive cars or smoke you have to let them box, being deleterious is no reason for a ban.

No you don't.

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58 minutes ago, WCTA said:

@morrie21 is the man to bring into this thread. 👍

Thanks, man it's always tough when there is a tragedy in the ring to justify the appeal of boxing. I am out of the loop a bit as I no longer watch much boxing or cover it - the politics and nonsense outside the ring left me exasperated. However I do still love the sport and the athletes that participate in it. Overall I feel boxing still does more harm than good in society in terms of giving young people an outlet, helping them to get/stay fit and build confidence. For those who choose to pursue it at the professional level, well the risks are clear for all to see.

 

This year alone there have been 4 ring deaths that we know about. I'm not saying there is any great conspiracy but there will be cards taking place under the radar in places around the world so who knows what goes on there. Anyway the 4 deaths we know about are all devastating for everyone involved in boxing. I would never advocate for boxing to be banned but some serious questions must be asked. Namely why, in 2019 when medicine and sports science knowledge have never been more advanced, is this happening. Is it just bad luck this year? Or is the depth of knowledge on nutrition allowing fighters to regularly complete dangerous weight cuts therefore making them more vulnerable come fight night? 

Any solutions would need to be agreed on across the board too which is difficult considering all the different governing bodies and indeed the international nature of the sport. A fighter's medical history may disqualify him from competing in one territory but 10 others would pass him to box in their part of the world. Perhaps round/bout length, weight of gloves, time in between rounds could be looked at with a view to making things safer while still making the sport attractive to those who want to watch it.

May all the fallen fighters who lost their lives in the ring RIP and spare a thought for their opponents too. Those athletes will never be the same again.

 

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1 hour ago, Eisegerwind said:

No you don't.

Quick question. 

Do you get an erection whenever someone posts something that you think you can get an argument about?

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