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exile

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Hair can be summed up as pretty but thick. More like a Tory politician's trophy wife than a politician hersel.

I'd recommend the guy on The New European website who gives a wee pen picture of each of the QT panel every Thursday. Usually fair and v amusing.

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22 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Had it on in the background but it seemed a very independence friendly edition. Fiona Bruce must've been lost without having Orange Billy to turn to....

there fixed it for you mr pokeūüėā

DDFDEEFC-EBC9-4D60-817B-BB29E418CABC.jpeg

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Just watched it on iPlayer and it was a lot less rabid than other episodes, I pretty much gave up on it about a year ago.

I haven't changed my overall opinion of Angela Haggerty but in fairness I thought she came across well.

I've seen a bit of stuff on social media about Kirstene Hair apparently having an earpiece in.  Normally, I think aye right when I see stuff like that but her almost robotic performance did look like she was repeating lines she was being fed. 

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3 hours ago, wheres the pies said:

there fixed it for you mr pokeūüėā

DDFDEEFC-EBC9-4D60-817B-BB29E418CABC.jpeg

What a sad bastard. Just devoting your life to something because some other Rangers fans have told you - NI ; Israel ; GB ; England ; Brexit etc. That's who you follow.

And a huge number of Rangers fans are similar. The absolute state of them calling Aberdeen fans sheep - yes out of context but the real sheep are them.

A pal of mine came away with a belter about the nucleus of No voters "rich posh Tories and thick as fuck Rangers fans who are so stupid they just follow what others around them say.''

I know a lot of Rangers fans are pro-indy but almost every idiot overcompensating with the Union fleg on Twitter proud Brit will 95% of the time be a Rangers fan.

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13 hours ago, exile said:

Robinson tearing into Blackford like a rabid partisan, and fiercely impartial proud Scot Andrew Neil retweeting to his pack of followers with relish.

I see Neil has retracted a tweet "now realise the previous tweet on this was edited to¬†make it look worse than it was."ūüėģūüėĪ

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3 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

What a sad bastard. Just devoting your life to something because some other Rangers fans have told you - NI ; Israel ; GB ; England ; Brexit etc. That's who you follow.

And a huge number of Rangers fans are similar. The absolute state of them calling Aberdeen fans sheep - yes out of context but the real sheep are them.

A pal of mine came away with a belter about the nucleus of No voters "rich posh Tories and thick as fuck Rangers fans who are so stupid they just follow what others around them say.''

I know a lot of Rangers fans are pro-indy but almost every idiot overcompensating with the Union fleg on Twitter proud Brit will 95% of the time be a Rangers fan.

I have a lot of friends who are Rangers fans and they are good people, but the majority of them really do have an uncompromising position on Indy so much so I don't even try to talk about it. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that their support for Rangers influences them hugely on the subject. 


A SNP member was telling me the other day that she was delivering leaflets to an¬†affluent area and stopped at a large house. A guy was in his garden and she passed him a leaflet. He told her to keep it as he would just put it in the bin. She asked why . He said ‚Äė because I am a Rangers fan‚Äô .

She couldn't believe it. She is a retired GP and has been a member of the SNP for about 40 years. She said she has never heard anyone give a football team as a reason in all those years. I asked her what age he was thinking maybe he was just a young boy , but she said he was in his 40’s. 

On the flip side of that I was canvassing a few years ago and a guy appeared at his door in a Rangers dressing gown. I could hear the Rangers game in the background and was expecting a torrent of abuse for interrupting him. As it turns out he votes SNP and was pro indy.  


That visit changed my own blinkered perception of  Rangers fans, though I still cannot help but feel there is a barrier out there . 



 


 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I have a lot of friends who are Rangers fans and they are good people, but the majority of them really do have an uncompromising position on Indy so much so I don't even try to talk about it. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that their support for Rangers influences them hugely on the subject. 


A SNP member was telling me the other day that she was delivering leaflets to an¬†affluent area and stopped at a large house. A guy was in his garden and she passed him a leaflet. He told her to keep it as he would just put it in the bin. She asked why . He said ‚Äė because I am a Rangers fan‚Äô .

She couldn't believe it. She is a retired GP and has been a member of the SNP for about 40 years. She said she has never heard anyone give a football team as a reason in all those years. I asked her what age he was thinking maybe he was just a young boy , but she said he was in his 40’s. 

On the flip side of that I was canvassing a few years ago and a guy appeared at his door in a Rangers dressing gown. I could hear the Rangers game in the background and was expecting a torrent of abuse for interrupting him. As it turns out he votes SNP and was pro indy.  


That visit changed my own blinkered perception of  Rangers fans, though I still cannot help but feel there is a barrier out there . 



 


 

 

 

The first one; was it Andy Goram ? 

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26 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I have a lot of friends who are Rangers fans and they are good people, but the majority of them really do have an uncompromising position on Indy so much so I don't even try to talk about it. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that their support for Rangers influences them hugely on the subject. 


A SNP member was telling me the other day that she was delivering leaflets to an¬†affluent area and stopped at a large house. A guy was in his garden and she passed him a leaflet. He told her to keep it as he would just put it in the bin. She asked why . He said ‚Äė because I am a Rangers fan‚Äô .

She couldn't believe it. She is a retired GP and has been a member of the SNP for about 40 years. She said she has never heard anyone give a football team as a reason in all those years. I asked her what age he was thinking maybe he was just a young boy , but she said he was in his 40’s. 

On the flip side of that I was canvassing a few years ago and a guy appeared at his door in a Rangers dressing gown. I could hear the Rangers game in the background and was expecting a torrent of abuse for interrupting him. As it turns out he votes SNP and was pro indy.  


That visit changed my own blinkered perception of  Rangers fans, though I still cannot help but feel there is a barrier out there . 

 

The problem is that for a significant number, although probably a minority, it almost seems like some sort of lifestyle choice.   It's impossible to really fathom where exactly its starts but it's a vicious circle.  I don't think it's a case of "because I support Rangers, I'm against Independence" but rather that all these things gel into one single worldview - I'm a Protestant (although I probably don't really believe in god and never go to church), I support Rangers, I love the Queen, I'm pro-Union, etc, etc.   Saying "it's because I support Rangers" is probably just an easy way of them defining themselves.

I always say, if you define your politics by your football team then you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote* and similarly if your football team is defined by your politics first and foremost then you aren't a football fan.

I'm certain that the same applies to the other side of the Old Firm and in fact I've also seem similar sorts of attitudes in the Tartan Army.

*obviously everyone should have the right to vote, but hopefully you get my point.

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20 hours ago, Jim Beem said:

The first one; was it Andy Goram ? 

ūüėÄ Quite possibly. He¬†was wearing a Rangers necklace.¬†¬†

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21 hours ago, aaid said:

The problem is that for a significant number, although probably a minority, it almost seems like some sort of lifestyle choice.   It's impossible to really fathom where exactly its starts but it's a vicious circle.  I don't think it's a case of "because I support Rangers, I'm against Independence" but rather that all these things gel into one single worldview - I'm a Protestant (although I probably don't really believe in god and never go to church), I support Rangers, I love the Queen, I'm pro-Union, etc, etc.   Saying "it's because I support Rangers" is probably just an easy way of them defining themselves.

I always say, if you define your politics by your football team then you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote* and similarly if your football team is defined by your politics first and foremost then you aren't a football fan.

I'm certain that the same applies to the other side of the Old Firm and in fact I've also seem similar sorts of attitudes in the Tartan Army.

*obviously everyone should have the right to vote, but hopefully you get my point.

I suppose it is something akin to some Scotland fans who feel they must hate England. It gives them some sort of false sense it makes them even more of a supporter.

Like they have a perceived idea of what is a must for them.

Edited by Caledonian Craig

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20 hours ago, aaid said:

The problem is that for a significant number, although probably a minority, it almost seems like some sort of lifestyle choice.   It's impossible to really fathom where exactly its starts but it's a vicious circle.  I don't think it's a case of "because I support Rangers, I'm against Independence" but rather that all these things gel into one single worldview - I'm a Protestant (although I probably don't really believe in god and never go to church), I support Rangers, I love the Queen, I'm pro-Union, etc, etc.   Saying "it's because I support Rangers" is probably just an easy way of them defining themselves.

I always say, if you define your politics by your football team then you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote* and similarly if your football team is defined by your politics first and foremost then you aren't a football fan.

I'm certain that the same applies to the other side of the Old Firm and in fact I've also seem similar sorts of attitudes in the Tartan Army.

*obviously everyone should have the right to vote, but hopefully you get my point.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying.
If the best objection someone can provide is that they support a particular football team then there is clearly little substance behind them or their argument regardless of what team they support. I have to be honest though and say I recognise this trait more in Rangers fans.  

 

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14 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I suppose it is something akin to some Scotland fans who feel they must hate England. It gives them some sort of false sense it makes them even more of a supporter.

Like they have a perceived idea of what is a must for them.

Yes, but remember there is such a thing as sporting rivalry. Without it sport means fuck all. It doesn’t mean you hate a country. That’s just fucking stupid. 

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Yeah, I understand what you are saying.
If the best objection someone can provide is that they support a particular football team then there is clearly little substance behind them or their argument regardless of what team they support. I have to be honest though and say I recognise this trait more in Rangers fans.  

 

Ummm, we call them Huns on here thank-you.¬†ūüėä

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5 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I have to be honest though and say I recognise this trait more in Rangers fans.  

 

Possibly, although that might be because you notice it more because you're on the other side of the argument.   

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Just now, aaid said:

Possibly, although that might be because you notice it more because you're on the other side of the argument.   

I don't disagree with that, on this particular subject of Indy and the Union the Rangers connection is going to be highlighted more.
But I still feel a lot of Rangers fans are generally more politically blinkered than other clubs. 

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1 minute ago, TDYER63 said:


But I still feel a lot of Rangers fans are generally more politically blinkered than other clubs. 

I'm not going to disagree with that but you mentioned your experience from canvassing, presumably for Yes in 2014.   When you were doing that, if someone said they were voting Yes, you didn't ask them why.   If you did, and they said "Because I'm Scottish", isn't that roughly the same thing, using a simple way of describing something which is all encompassing.

Hopefully people will realise that I'm not someone who has that mindset but I do have plenty of experience of it as I pretty much grew up in that environment - not in my immediate family, tbf - and I can see how it translates itself.

I'd say that with Rangers fans of that perspective, it's probably a lot more on the surface than it is with other clubs and the national team and Celtic-minded friends of mine have said as much to me in the past.

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52 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm not going to disagree with that but you mentioned your experience from canvassing, presumably for Yes in 2014.   When you were doing that, if someone said they were voting Yes, you didn't ask them why.   If you did, and they said "Because I'm Scottish", isn't that roughly the same thing, using a simple way of describing something which is all encompassing.

Hopefully people will realise that I'm not someone who has that mindset but I do have plenty of experience of it as I pretty much grew up in that environment - not in my immediate family, tbf - and I can see how it translates itself.

I'd say that with Rangers fans of that perspective, it's probably a lot more on the surface than it is with other clubs and the national team and Celtic-minded friends of mine have said as much to me in the past.

I was¬†canvassing ¬†was for the 2015 GE , I wasn't involved at all in Indyref, but I take your point.¬†Thing is, if someone had answered¬†‚Äėbecause i am scottish‚Äô i very much¬†doubt their support for¬†a particular football¬†team had¬†influenced their¬†answer.¬†Whereas¬†the Rangers fan i was referring to had answered that he wouldn't vote SNP¬†¬†/ Independence because he was a Rangers fan. He clearly cannot see anything other than Rangers = Union and I dont think he is alone. Its almost an indoctrination with many. ¬†

I dont think you have that mindset at all, I have said before on here  I find you very balanced, far more so than me. Nor do I think the vast majority of Rangers fans on this board are like that, the very fact they are on the board supporting the national team suggests they are not. 

And yes, I would agree that Rangers fans are probably more vocal than blinkered fans of other teams hence the focus on them.  

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7 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I was¬†canvassing ¬†was for the 2015 GE , I wasn't involved at all in Indyref, but I take your point.¬†Thing is, if someone had answered¬†‚Äėbecause i am scottish‚Äô i very much¬†doubt their support for¬†a particular football¬†team had¬†influenced their¬†answer.¬†Whereas¬†the Rangers fan i was referring to had answered that he wouldn't vote SNP¬†¬†/ Independence because he was a Rangers fan. He clearly cannot see anything other than Rangers = Union and I dont think he is alone. Its almost an indoctrination with many. ¬†
 

The only time I've ever done door-to-door canvassing was in the 1983 general election when as a young and naive youth, I did a lot for the Labour Party.    

I remember going to one door and when they opened it, there was a huge picture of King Billy on a white horse on the wall in the hall and thinking, I don't think we'll get much joy here.

My abiding memory of that time was how completely dispiriting it was to go to a door where a woman would answer and when you went through your spiel, she'd say "hold on, I'll just get my man".   

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:



My abiding memory of that time was how completely dispiriting it was to go to a door where a woman would answer and when you went through your spiel, she'd say "hold on, I'll just get my man".   

My wife did that a few years ago!¬†:lol:¬†ūüėź

Said something like 'hold on, you can talk to my husband, he's more into politics".

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12 minutes ago, aaid said:

The only time I've ever done door-to-door canvassing was in the 1983 general election when as a young and naive youth, I did a lot for the Labour Party.    

I remember going to one door and when they opened it, there was a huge picture of King Billy on a white horse on the wall in the hall and thinking, I don't think we'll get much joy here.

My abiding memory of that time was how completely dispiriting it was to go to a door where a woman would answer and when you went through your spiel, she'd say "hold on, I'll just get my man".   

ūüėāūüėā canvassing is¬†not for the faint hearted thats for sure.
I don't particularly like it , my debating skills are shite as you may have noticed and it is even worse when you have to think on your feet.  I was just so gutted at the referendum result I felt I had to do something, I  don’t have a real general interest in politics. 

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

ūüėāūüėā canvassing is¬†not for the faint hearted thats for sure.
I don't particularly like it , my debating skills are shite as you may have noticed and it is even worse when you have to think on your feet.  I was just so gutted at the referendum result I felt I had to do something, I  don’t have a real general interest in politics. 

We were only doing voting intention returns, basically just getting the way people were planning to vote, asking old people if they needed a car to take them to the polling station on the day.  We'd only get involved in a discussion would be if someone asked us a specific question.  Basically, it was a case of "hello, I'm here on behalf of the Labour Party, do you mind me asking if you'll be voting for us" which made the whole, "I'll get my man" so depressing, even worse when they shouted through to living room "there's a boy here from Labour asking who we're voting for".

Went out in the car with the speakers on it on Election Day and we basically followed the Tories around saying "don't listen to them, they're lying". 

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6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

ūüėāūüėā canvassing is¬†not for the faint hearted thats for sure.
I don't particularly like it , my debating skills are shite as you may have noticed and it is even worse when you have to think on your feet.  I was just so gutted at the referendum result I felt I had to do something, I  don’t have a real general interest in politics. 

Random canvassing does more harm than good IMO. We should only be going to visit folk who have already expressed an interest in speaking to somebody about a particular subject. This is the 21st century. Hardly anybody that I know would even consider just turning up at somebody's door without arranging it first. Anybody who just turns up at my door get a dose of the F word pretty smartish. I can't think of too many exceptions to that rule. 

Don't go annoying folk by just turning up at their door, especially when the football is on.;)

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2 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

Went out in the car with the speakers on it on Election Day and we basically followed the Tories around saying "don't listen to them, they're lying". 

:lol:

Now, that's a much better idea.

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5 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Random canvassing does more harm than good IMO. We should only be going to visit folk who have already expressed an interest in speaking to somebody about a particular subject. This is the 21st century. Hardly anybody that I know would even consider just turning up at somebody's door without arranging it first. Anybody who just turns up at my door get a dose of the F word pretty smartish. I can't think of too many exceptions to that rule. 

Don't go annoying folk by just turning up at their door, especially when the football is on.;)

I imagine I would have more success if I was nicer on the eye ....

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2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I imagine I would have more success if I was nicer on the eye ....

Not if the football was on. :lol:

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