Today is the day that it really struck home how utterly pathetic we are at football

[Alan]

Anyone I know who has kids getting coached including my nephew it is so much better than 30 years ago when I was a lad. They play small games on small pitches and increase as they get older. Clubs and SFA schools are doing their bit.

However wider society, the cynicism from the stands, the moans from the TA when the team pass it round back waiting for space instead of linking it up. Some fat bassa going ape at a player making a mistake when they couldn't trap a bag of cement. All this needs to change.

[Boynze]

Problem is its.nit justone thing, its lots and lots. And no one has the balls to make the big changes.

 

[Boynze]

one obvious thing - summer football.

[Fermer]

Aaaaa so it's the fans fault.  Stupid me.  Christ I wish Jimmy Johnstone, dalglish, souness etc etc etfecking tc had the modern day coaches we have now.  But it's yon fat blokes fault.  The kids are coached out of the game now.  Let them play like we all did 30-60 years ago and then coach when you find the best ones.  Look at romania.  Skill and guts.  Both things we lack.

[weekevie04]

We are just not very good at many things including football.

I've always believed that The Faroes - if they had a bigger population, more than 50k - would easily slay us in football. Every game we have played against them, they are usually more skillful, quicker, and better at striking/kicking the ball - basics.

I was fairly disappointied about not qualifying, and today as well it struck home a bit too seeing the flags and of course the other three 'Home' Nations being there, but once the dust has settled, it's probably a good thing. We can enjoy a tournament and not worry about us getting absolutely horsed. It's not even about the scoreline, scraping a 1-0 loss to Italy or going down 3-0 to Belgium for example- it's the manner of the defeat, and us having 0 shots on target or 23% ball possession at a major finals is an embarrassment we have avoided.

 

 

[Rossy]

Loads of countries in the Euros with more limited resources and players than us. 

Difference is, in their qualifying groups they all managed to become more of the sum of their parts. 

We didn't. We under-performed. Because of the SFA ? Because of poor training facilities ? Because of poor player development ? 

Maybe, but we're not the only country that suffers these issues.

Scotland never qualified because we have a manager who simply cannot get the best out of the players he has. And we're going to give him another chance to fail in the next 2 years. 

[Boynze]

17 minutes ago, Rossy said:

Loads of countries in the Euros with more limited resources and players than us. 

Difference is, in their qualifying groups they all managed to become more of the sum of their parts. 

We didn't. We under-performed. Because of the SFA ? Because of poor training facilities ? Because of poor player development ? 

Maybe, but we're not the only country that suffers these issues.

Scotland never qualified because we have a manager who simply cannot get the best out of the players he has. And we're going to give him another chance to fail in the next 2 years. 

the players have and the players we produce are no where near good enough to compete and qualify at this level, surely you understand that?

[Alan]

I've got to agree Strachan is very lucky with media and fan support ignoring the results and style. Remember Levein leaving out Rhodes? The reaction to him versus reaction to Strachan....

 

[Rossy]

7 minutes ago, Boynze said:

the players have and the players we produce are no where near good enough to compete and qualify at this level, surely you understand that?

On paper...I know, I know....we have better squads than about 6 of the countries there. 

What we don't have is a manager who can get the absolute best out of the group of players he has.

[Boynze]

8 minutes ago, Rossy said:

On paper...I know, I know....we have better squads than about 6 of the countries there. 

What we don't have is a manager who can get the absolute best out of the group of players he has.

we don't. Not by a mile.

[adamntg]

4 hours ago, Scotunited said:

It will take a generation to change the mentality.  It will take radical change from the top downwards to develop footballers, not under 10-under 16 teams that are taught that winning is all that matters.

kids at 12 year old playing on full size pitches, and goals ? What type of player develops via that? Strong  tall, runners that can kick and head the ball the furthest. If you develop kids at a young age to learn how to be comfortable with a football, it will become natural to them over time.  The clubs are as much to blame, the need to win at all levels is at the disadvantage of progression of individual talent.

Scotland as a nation continues to live on past glories (?) and think if we try hard enough to replicate it it will eventually pay off.  Other nations look at what works at the top level and adopt that approach.

Germany after a World Cup failure ( quarter finals, I think) re-evaluated everything and changed the structure from top to bottom to ensure future success. In Scotland we hope to get a eases have group to battle through

One observation I would make is that competitive football is not allowed in Scotland until High School.  I've taken teams of primary kids to Denmark for the last three years and they're playing direct, long ball football at a very young age because they play for cups far earlier than we do.  It doesn't breed good football, but they perhaps have more pragmatic, competitive footballers than we do.  I don't now which is right, but I know our football is more attractive at a young age. 

[PASTA Mick]

I can't believe it took anyone until today to realise how shite we are. 

[Scotunited]

2 hours ago, Rossy said:

On paper...I know, I know....we have better squads than about 6 of the countries there. 

What we don't have is a manager who can get the absolute best out of the group of players he has.

Okay tell me a manager in the world that would give us success, the manager no matter who it is is not the problem, as others have said it is many things that need to change. The reaction when Scotland keep the ball for example is laughable from the stands, most fans are screaming to punt it forward, get it in the mixer and battle, for the loose ball. That has got to change, in order to give us a better chance to qualify and then process.

would Scotland have played as Romania did tonight ? No way we would be happy to loose 1,2,3 nil and play our part in being there. 

[HIGHTOWER 1314]

Its been depressing listening to everyone talking about the euros and my mate heading out today to support northern ireland.I cant wait till it finishes.Then there is the english idiots causing a riot in marseille and blaming it on the locals,russian etc.

Edited June 10, 2016 by HIGHTOWER 1314

[Toepoke]

2 hours ago, Boynze said:

we don't. Not by a mile.

I was going to pull some stats together there and show how crap our defence has got over the past 30 years. But it turns out in terms of goals lost per game, Italia 90 was our poorest campaign. And we qualified!

 

[Regenmann]

8 hours ago, Alan said:

I've got to agree Strachan is very lucky with media and fan support ignoring the results and style. Remember Levein leaving out Rhodes? The reaction to him versus reaction to Strachan....

 

The Scottish hacks have a very cosy relationship with Strachan, hence the easy ride.

He (Strachan) is one of the main reasons I've chucked Scotland games after 30 years. 

[DoonTheSlope]

6 hours ago, HIGHTOWER 1314 said:

Its been depressing listening to everyone talking about the euros and my mate heading out today to support northern ireland.I cant wait till it finishes.Then there is the english idiots causing a riot in marseille and blaming it on the locals,russian etc.

Jim Traynors the FA's media man

[sbcmfc]

I actually thought the football starting made it better.

Its the build up that's been torture.

Despite all said above. Wales, Northern Ireland and the republic have all qualified with teams similar to ours on paper.

We all saw the republic up close, and they weren't better than us. Wales have Gareth Bale. Northern Ireland just seem to have something about them, from a team who were struggling against the faroes and Andorrans of the world not so long ago.

[AberdeenAngus]

12 hours ago, Scotunited said:

It will take a generation to change the mentality.  It will take radical change from the top downwards to develop footballers, not under 10-under 16 teams that are taught that winning is all that matters.

kids at 12 year old playing on full size pitches, and goals ? What type of player develops via that? Strong  tall, runners that can kick and head the ball the furthest. If you develop kids at a young age to learn how to be comfortable with a football, it will become natural to them over time.  The clubs are as much to blame, the need to win at all levels is at the disadvantage of progression of individual talent.

Scotland as a nation continues to live on past glories (?) and think if we try hard enough to replicate it it will eventually pay off.  Other nations look at what works at the top level and adopt that approach.

Germany after a World Cup failure ( quarter finals, I think) re-evaluated everything and changed the structure from top to bottom to ensure future success. In Scotland we hope to get a eases have group to battle through

That's not really true.

From under 9s to under 12s we play 7 a side games to give kids more touches of the ball on a smaller pitch.

Only at under 13 level when kids go to High School do they start playing for points, leagues and cups.

The will to win from my experience is more from the kids than coaches or parents at the 7 a sides and that is natural for them to want to win.

The player pathway looks fine but somewhere along the line it's not producing players of quality in reasonable numbers.

Are we just poor at converting raw talent into the finished product?

Is our pro youth system right? I heard Allan Preston rail against it a few years back. He reckons some clubs will have around 200 kids at the various age groups and that is too many. Apparently when he was coming through clubs were permitted a maximum of 25 'S' signings so they were much more choosy about the ages they signed players. 

Not sure what the problem(s) is but they need addressed rather than continually talking about what it might be.

Not everything is wrong as I agree that the standard and quality of coaching and opportunities for kids is much higher than when I played as a kid but we haven't got everything right either. 

[bossman4]

12 hours ago, Boynze said:

the players have and the players we produce are no where near good enough to compete and qualify at this level, surely you understand that?

What have Northern Ireland and Albania done differently then that helped them qualify this time? 

Its so easy to start bleating about our youth set and whats wrong and right with it. I live in Northern Ireland and am involved with my local junior football club where we have built a youth set up over the last two years. Been very successfull but youth football here is miles behind Scotland, its got better but we still have to take kids to pitches anything between 10 and 50 miles away on a Saturday morning and the lack of 3G means any scheduled grass get cancelled to save afternoon matches. I done an IFA grassroots course recently and the main issue over here is the mentaltiy side of it. They need to get kids ready to go and live in England or Scotland at 15/16, 80% of them come back because they canny cope living away from mummy.

I've been living here for 9 years and have played against and with some guys here who were more than capable of playing full time football across the water but some just couldn't cope.

The main difference with Northern Ireland is they got a favaourable draw, mainly Greece. We were guilty of gettting carried away thinking we were home and dry, especially after the results v ROI. We're not as bad a some of the 'knickerwetters' on here would have us believe

[Redz]

19 hours ago, Bristolhibby said:

I was about to congratulate the England fans on their restraint in the face of extreme provocation. 

J

The same 'restraint' your dad gave to the smoked salmon and champagne in Lux airport lounge last Sunday!  

Good to hear you guys got home safely......

[Toepoke]

28 minutes ago, bossman4 said:

We're not as bad a some of the 'knickerwetters' on here would have us believe

Wouldn't consider myself a knickerwetter and I do agree we got a really tough draw in the qualifiers. But I was a bit concerned watching the Romanians take the game to France last night, after our abject performance against them on Saturday...

[thewolf_1980]

With Albania, Switzerland, Wales and Slovakia in action, I think TODAY is the day it really struck home how utterly pathetic we are at football.

[Scotunited]

2 hours ago, AberdeenAngus said:

That's not really true.

From under 9s to under 12s we play 7 a side games to give kids more touches of the ball on a smaller pitch.

Only at under 13 level when kids go to High School do they start playing for points, leagues and cups.

The will to win from my experience is more from the kids than coaches or parents at the 7 a sides and that is natural for them to want to win.

The player pathway looks fine but somewhere along the line it's not producing players of quality in reasonable numbers.

Are we just poor at converting raw talent into the finished product?

Is our pro youth system right? I heard Allan Preston rail against it a few years back. He reckons some clubs will have around 200 kids at the various age groups and that is too many. Apparently when he was coming through clubs were permitted a maximum of 25 'S' signings so they were much more choosy about the ages they signed players. 

Not sure what the problem(s) is but they need addressed rather than continually talking about what it might be.

Not everything is wrong as I agree that the standard and quality of coaching and opportunities for kids is much higher than when I played as a kid but we haven't got everything right either. 

Agree with most of what you say, why at under 13 high school, do we require  that they play on full size pitches and goals? Think that stops the development, and all that then counts is winning. Why not continue to develop with pitches and numbers getting bigger to play full size at say 16 years old? You can still be competitive, but think it would give an extra 3 years to develop the skills at an age when kids are most impressionable.  

 

Edited June 11, 2016 by Scotunited

[bossman4]

54 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

Wouldn't consider myself a knickerwetter and I do agree we got a really tough draw in the qualifiers. But I was a bit concerned watching the Romanians take the game to France last night, after our abject performance against them on Saturday...

Thing is though we cant really compare last us from Sunday to Romania last night.