DonnyTJS Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Do you really think he is going to get rid of these Blairites by backing down every time they threaten him? He needs to start getting rid of them before they get rid of him. If he waits until the next constituency selection process that will be too late. It will almost certainly be too late for Labour in Scotland and probably in England too. Why do you care about Labour in Scotland? One of your many amusing posts recently informed us all that you were 'never voting Labour again'. As for it being too late for England, I'm unsure what you mean? We've waited decades for an alternative to the mid-Atlantic, lick-spittle governance that's been on offer. For the final time, if Corbyn had attempted to enforce a three-line whip the shadow cabinet would have imploded, his leadership would've been at an end and any potential parliamentary opposition would have been in turmoil for the remainder of this parliament. Why not turn your attention to those who are advocating an escalation of the current conflict? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Do you really think he is going to get rid of these Blairites by backing down every time they threaten him? He needs to start getting rid of them before they get rid of him. If he waits until the next constituency selection process that will be too late. It will almost certainly be too late for Labour in Scotland and probably in England too. The leader of the Labour Party cannot 'get rid' of MP's from the PLP simply for disagreeing with him. Corbyn is in the process of granting constituency branches the power to deselect their representatives if they do not represent their views. With the membership firmly behind the leader it will be the PLP who will be backing down. Back the people, back the People's whip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why do you care about Labour in Scotland? One of your many amusing posts recently informed us all that you were 'never voting Labour again'. As for it being too late for England, I'm unsure what you mean? We've waited decades for an alternative to the mid-Atlantic, lick-spittle governance that's been on offer. For the final time, if Corbyn had attempted to enforce a three-line whip the shadow cabinet would have imploded, his leadership would've been at an end and any potential parliamentary opposition would have been in turmoil for the remainder of this parliament. Why not turn your attention to those who are advocating an escalation of the current conflict? Also when Salmond had to walk a tight rope on certain issues, and obfuscate his intentions it was smart politics. Corbyn is just doing the same except it's a much narrower road. Corbyn at the very,very least offers an actual choice in English politics. I like the cut of his jib. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why did Corbyn tell Cameron what he was going to do before Cameron decided if he was going to go for the vote. That was just an open invitation for Cameron to go for the vote. Corbyn could easily have just said "If the government put it to the House then I will decide whether to whip the Labour members" That would have kept Cameron guessing and the vote might never have happened - mibees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWalka Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why did Corbyn tell Cameron what he was going to do before Cameron decided if he was going to go for the vote. That was just an open invitation for Cameron to go for the vote. Corbyn could easily have just said "If the government put it to the House then I will decide whether to whip the Labour members" That would have kept Cameron guessing and the vote might never have happened - mibees? That's the one flaw I see in Corbyn's plans this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 He was unable to get it through the shadow cabinet - as was immediately leaked - and, for the umpteenth time, he is running the party on constitutional principles not as a dictatorship (not that Thatcher was able to get her way when her cabinet was recalcitrant). I would expect a reshuffle before too long, but ultimately, the changes to the PLP have to come from the constituencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why did Corbyn tell Cameron what he was going to do before Cameron decided if he was going to go for the vote. That was just an open invitation for Cameron to go for the vote. Corbyn could easily have just said "If the government put it to the House then I will decide whether to whip the Labour members" That would have kept Cameron guessing and the vote might never have happened - mibees? The motion was drafted on Sunday, and Corbyn announced the free vote on Monday afternoon following cabinet. Speculation that 50 Labour MP's will back the government, so you can see the task that the great one faces. You can either join in with the media sneering knowing fine well there is nothing Corbyn could have done regarding this vote... OR you can sympathise and understand that Corbyn is working to make the PLP reflect the membership. I know what I'd do if it were the SNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenfrewBlue Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 He was unable to get it through the shadow cabinet - as was immediately leaked - and, for the umpteenth time, he is running the party on constitutional principles not as a dictatorship (not that Thatcher was able to get her way when her cabinet was recalcitrant). I would expect a reshuffle before too long, but ultimately, the changes to the PLP have to come from the constituencies.For what it's worth I think you're right. A head on battle would cripple the Labour party as a credible opposition. Corbyn knows the rank and file members support him so he just has to play the canny waiting game to let the party marginalise all of the Red Tories. I think Jeremy has played most things well so far and actually seems to have some principles that he intends to stand by. I like him. Honesty is so unusual in politics these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Cameron is the biggest and most powerful terrorist sympathiser in UK politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It seems inevitable which is so ing depressing. My main concern is this '70,000 moderates' chat. We have no real idea who's these 70000 people are or indeed what their intentions are. We do know however that the free syrian army, who I believe make up the majority of these so called moderates, have slaughtered and butchered men, women and children over the last number of years. It seems to me that what the government are saying, is that if your not with Assad and your not with ISIS then your sound, even though we don't really know anything about them. The real route to victory is of course to arm the kurds who have fought their own battles with ISIS in recent years and have made some significant gains. However, we will not arms them as Turkey don't want that and furthermore the kurds want their own state and again no country wants to back individuals who want to break away and form their own country. In terms of Corbyn etc, I think he has played this the right way and I believe he is a man of principle and I like him a lot. The free vote will of course highlight and hopefully alienate those MP's who vote in favour from their constituents and to see Alan Johnson standing their supporting the tories whilst having a sly dig at his own leader was galling. A man who I liked very much, but not any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckielugger Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thanks DonnyTJS for the supoortive comments. ..and sadly I wouldn't put myself as young in years...im more an SOS...sad old socialist ! I have many years of campaigning on the left...CND..the Miners...anti-apartheid. ..anti-war....united Ireland. ..and yes Scottish Independence. And delighted Jeremy Corbyn is showing the uninitiated what a fine honest politician he is with total integrity. And yes an alliance between him and Nicola might just be a great move... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thanks DonnyTJS for the supoortive comments. ..and sadly I wouldn't put myself as young in years...im more an SOS...sad old socialist ! I have many years of campaigning on the left...CND..the Miners...anti-apartheid. ..anti-war....united Ireland. ..and yes Scottish Independence. And delighted Jeremy Corbyn is showing the uninitiated what a fine honest politician he is with total integrity. And yes an alliance between him and Nicola might just be a great move... Christ, in 20 years I'm going to be you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thought this was about whether people support bombing but no internal power struggles in the Labour Party once again take front stage. It makes me so angry that this game is being played out over something so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thought this was about whether people support bombing but no internal power struggles in the Labour Party once again take front stage. It makes me so angry that this game is being played out over something so important. Hardly a surprise the media make this such an important issue. Just imagine what it will be like if Corbyn is still leader come the next election, will make the referendum seem balanced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Hardly a surprise the media make this such an important issue. Just imagine what it will be like if Corbyn is still leader come the next election, will make the referendum seem balanced Lamia will be right there cheering them on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thought this was about whether people support bombing but no internal power struggles in the Labour Party once again take front stage. It makes me so angry that this game is being played out over something so important.Agreed, this is much more important but you wouldn't think it from the media coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Kezia is www.keziadugdale.com/2015/12/02/military-action-against-daeshisis Edited December 2, 2015 by flumax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunchy Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 OK back to the subject. I don't think our bombing of syria will help much in the fight against Isis. It won't make us more of a target we already are a target. It doesn't mean we won't be doing nothing we already are fighting them here in the UK. The intelligence services are constantly fighting them and carrying out raids such as the one today in Luton. The only way to stop Isis in syria and Iraq is to put boots on the ground. This 70k fighters is drop in the ocean compared to what is needed to destroy Isis. But then if we do put boots on the ground will we just do what we did in Afghanistan and put a token show of fighting them. As in go to an area pacify it then move out letting the insurgents back into the area. To do it right you have to stay there and run a proper hearts and minds campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Lamia will be right there cheering them on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckielugger Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Chris t, in 20 years I'm going to be you! Well happy to be a role model for the mighty Scunnered..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Last week you claimed that the most principled politician in Westminster has no principles. I can offer no explanation other than a malice agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Last week you claimed that the most principled politician in Westminster has no principles. . Well if you don't stand by your supposed principles what other conclusion can be reached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Well if you don't stand by your supposed principles what other conclusion can be reached? What principle is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 What principle is that? Trident. Although looking at his voting record not just the last debate I am not sure if he has a principle on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Trident. Although looking at his voting record not just the last debate I am not sure if he has a principle on it Are you suggesting that the VP of CND isn't principled when it comes to Nuclear weapons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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