Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Thats the same argument as voting Labour is the best way for Scotland to prosper in the Union He has just been made to look like a clown by Hilary Benn There is absolutely no way Corbyn will be allowed to take Labour into the next General Election sadly And I've never seen you happier We'll have to disagree on Corbyn. He has the support of the membership, it would be suicide for the PLP... Unless there are enough of them who would happily see the party split, and I don't doubt for a second that there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Have decided to drag myself away from topics advising folk on hoovers and birthdays presents for their maws 60th. Personally i was pretty disappointed in Corbyns actions. Despite being a member of the SNP i have genuinely been very impressed by his principals up till now and seen a glimmer of hope for the left wing from a UK perspective. However i cannot see how a man with those principals could choose to give a free vote. This is his gig. If Jeremy Corbyn cannot stamp his authority on something as important as this i really do not see how he can command respect on other things. Its like a bloke from the Apprentice who is a salesman being unable to sell on a task. I have listened to Scunnered and Co's explanation but dont buy it. Really hope i am wrong . Also unsure if there is enough demand for left wing in the UK these days . Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Benn draws parallels with the fights against fascism. But Cameron is not proposing anything as noble or dangerous (to him) as those who went to fight in the Spanish civil war, or who took on the Nazis. He's happy to bomb from a distance, and let civilians bear the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I don't think it is. I'm not advocating anyone here votes Labour. You're probably right, I suspect he'll be kicked out before the election, further losing them more votes down south I think most would agree with Corbyn and his policies and want him in charge but thats not the point The reality is he is amid a nest of vipers and there is no chance of him ever holding power Corbyn is nothing more than a pipe dream which has been embarrasingly proved tonight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 The people who have the facts not the google ones will decide and go to destroy those who would destroy us. End of. Like Iraq? Like when Blair and Brown would meet Gaddafi in tents? Like when Thatcher supported Pinnochet when he was slaughtering thousands of his own people? Or when the UK government turned a blind eye to Indonesia committing genocide in East Timor? What about apartheid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 And I've never seen you happier We'll have to disagree on Corbyn. He has the support of the membership, it would be suicide for the PLP... Unless there are enough of them who would happily see the party split, and I don't doubt for a second that there is. I am not happy one iota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Labour has many many problems, most that will require years of fixing but calling them the Red Tories doesn't quite fit with Corbyn in charge, don't get me wrong the red Tory description, while not one I would use, sadly fits a lot of them Is a collective term for his party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I think most would agree with Corbyn and his policies and want him in charge but thats not the point The reality is he is amid a nest of vipers and there is no chance of him ever holding power Corbyn is nothing more than a pipe dream which has been embarrasingly proved tonight I disagree about the power part, it would be very difficult but the referendum and his own leadership campaign showed that voters will respond to his type of policies. Rather a pipe dream than the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mox Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If you believe in social justice then Corbyn is the best chance of achieving it as long as Scotland is part of the Union. Aye he's not perfect and labour are more bad than good but it's still surprising the amount on here who seem to enjoy hoping he fails I agree with this 100%. I am a yes supporter (although i couldnt vote as I stayed in London at the time) and I still want independence. However, there are some people who seem so obsessed with it, that they will trash the type of leader of the Labour party that they claim the labour party has been crying out for for years. Your top sentence is the most important aspect of this and one we would all do well to remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 If you believe in social justice then Corbyn is the best chance of achieving it as long as Scotland is part of the Union. Aye he's not perfect and labour are more bad than good but it's still surprising the amount on here who seem to enjoy hoping he fails He will fail big time. There are still a lot of his party members who hold grudges against his voting record over the years while he was a back bencher. The only way he will win is the red tory party split, then he can effectively lead a real Labour party, not a right wing establishment party as is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 He will fail big time. There are still a lot of his party members who hold grudges against his voting record over the years while he was a back bencher. The only way he will win is the red tory party split, then he can effectively lead a real Labour party, not a right wing establishment party as is now. Don't agree. As long as he retains support from members and does well in polls then that could prevent the right wing element of the party from kicking him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Like Iraq? Like when Blair and Brown would meet Gaddafi in tents? Like when Thatcher supported Pinnochet when he was slaughtering thousands of his own people? Or when the UK government turned a blind eye to Indonesia committing genocide in East Timor? What about apartheid? Whataboute Sudan, China, Gaddafi, the Zulus, The Clangers. Loony. Bring up Wikipedia to justify standing against scum who want our and our childrens heads. Yesterday is gone. Today is today and I know where I stand. Against those who wouldnt even enslave us they would destroy us. Surely you know that. The majority of muslims in this country agree with it. No? You will bring up mistakes from Tony Blair. What about Churchill? Was he right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 That doesn't make sense. I'm not surprised. Of course it doesn't make sense to someone who cannot see that this so called principled person has just removed a 3 line whip on his party to vote against the Government because he knows a large section, including some in his shadow cabinet, will vote with the government. Principled my bahooki. More like chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Whataboute Sudan, China, Gaddafi, the Zulus, The Clangers. Loony. Bring up Wikipedia to justify standing against scum who want our and our childrens heads. Yesterday is gone. Today is today and I know where I stand. Against those who wouldnt even enslave us they would destroy us. Surely you know that. The majority of muslims in this country agree with it. No? You will bring up mistakes from Tony Blair. What about Churchill? Was he right? I mean majority of muslims agree against these loonies before someone jumps in. Normal moderate muslims want f all to do with these cants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Whataboute Sudan, China, Gaddafi, the Zulus, The Clangers. Loony. Bring up Wikipedia to justify standing against scum who want our and our childrens heads. Yesterday is gone. Today is today and I know where I stand. Against those who wouldnt even enslave us they would destroy us. Surely you know that. The majority of muslims in this country agree with it. No? You will bring up mistakes from Tony Blair. What about Churchill? Was he right? I brought up a lot more than mistakes. You appear to advocate blindly following our government when I've gave half a dozen examples when they've deceived the public to commit or allow other people to commit acts of terror abroad. David Cameron and his government are a bigger threat to your safety than Isis will ever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Have decided to drag myself away from topics advising folk on hoovers and birthdays presents for their maws 60th. Personally i was pretty disappointed in Corbyns actions. Despite being a member of the SNP i have genuinely been very impressed by his principals up till now and seen a glimmer of hope for the left wing from a UK perspective. However i cannot see how a man with those principals could choose to give a free vote. This is his gig. If Jeremy Corbyn cannot stamp his authority on something as important as this i really do not see how he can command respect on other things. Its like a bloke from the Apprentice who is a salesman being unable to sell on a task. I have listened to Scunnered and Co's explanation but dont buy it. Really hope i am wrong . Also unsure if there is enough demand for left wing in the UK these days . Sad. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Of course it doesn't make sense to someone who cannot see that this so called principled person has just removed a 3 line whip on his party to vote against the Government because he knows a large section, including some in his shadow cabinet, will vote with the government. Principled my bahooki. More like chicken. That just reinforces how much the Labour Party stinks. This didn't happen overnight and won't be fixed overnight either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I brought up a lot more than mistakes. You appear to advocate blindly following our government when I've gave half a dozen examples when they've deceived the public to commit or allow other people to commit acts of terror abroad. David Cameron and his government are a bigger threat to your safety than Isis will ever be. Aye. Tell you what we will do. You go over and live in ISIS territory for 6 months and I will live here under Cameron. We will see whos the bigger threat. Feckin loony talk. Anyhow landslide vote against these scumbags. I am no war supporter but stood up when I was threatened at school. No tory either but know the difference between when to walk and when to act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Don't agree. As long as he retains support from members and does well in polls then that could prevent the right wing element of the party from kicking him out. We're talking about the labour MPs here who will divide themselves all the way through the term at parliament because our Jeremy has a track record of voting against his own leaders in the past. To the right wingers, or moderate whatever way you look at them, MPs in the labour party it is pay back time. Don't know about the members, but there was a lot of 'outsiders' voting on Corbyn to win just to ###### up the party and the union members, well let's just say it was the union leaders who decided that result, as they always do. Edited December 2, 2015 by antidote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Aye. Tell you what we will do. You go over and live in ISIS territory for 6 months and I will live here under Cameron. We will see whos the bigger threat. Feckin loony talk. Anyhow landslide vote against these scumbags. I am no war supporter but stood up when I was threatened at school. No tory either but know the difference between when to walk and when to act. It would help if you actually read what I wrote. Well acting has got us into this mess so may as well do it all again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scunnered Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 We're talking about the labour MPs here who will divide themselves all the way through the term at parliament because our Jeremy has a track record of voting against his own leaders in the past. To the right wingers, or moderate, whatever way you look at them, MPs in the labour party it is pay back time. Don't know about the members, but there was a lot of 'outsiders' voting on Corbyn to win just to ###### up the party and the union members, well let's just say it was the union leaders who decided that result, as they always do. Your ignorance is breathtaking. Where on earth do you get your information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 We're talking about the labour MPs here who will divide themselves all the way through the term at parliament because our Jeremy has a track record of voting against his own leaders in the past. To the right wingers, or moderate, whatever way you look at them, MPs in the labour party it is pay back time. Don't know about the members, but there was a lot of 'outsiders' voting on Corbyn to win just to ###### up the party and the union members, well let's just say it was the union leaders who decided that result, as they always do. Time will tell. I'm not willing to write off Corbyn just yet, the same way I believed in independence. It's no coincidence the same people who were against Indy are also against Corbyn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Shanks Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) I predict tanks on the pitch at Ibrox to welcome back oor heroes in a few months. Another example of why the 55% are utter khunts. Edited December 2, 2015 by Armitage Shanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermer Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It would help if you actually read what I wrote. Well acting has got us into this mess so may as well do it all again. 'David Cameron and his government are a bigger threat to your safety than Isis will ever be.' As I said. Loony. I have dealt with good people from these countries for over twenty years and their families were at threat every day from torture, rape and crucifixion if anyone said a word against there leaders. Maybe we should have left them alone to get on with this and there is a good argument now because of the past mistakes you have mentioned. But right is right and wrong is wrong. We are doing the right thing here. It is destroy or be destroyed. That is how serious this is. No matter what has gone on before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antidote Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Imo Corbyn as a leader is about 20 years too late. He is too divisive a politician now for modern politics and I'm sure his brand of so called principled politics will not get a Labour government voted in for decades to come. It is inevitable that the labour party will split with a left wing and a centre right wing. RIP the red tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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