thewelk Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Since we've discussed this 'xenophobia' jibe of yours before, You lost. I won't waste time going through the argument again - just read the final few pages of the linked thread. Xenophobia is a very real factor in this debate. I hadn't realised I'd 'lost' that time, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't figure out much from the mass of convoluted faux intellectual tripe. This is how most 'arguments' go on here... 1+1=2. No it doesn't. Yest it does. But does 2+3=2. No. Well then, 4+2=7. Therefore you're 100% wrong. You lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Got this in my mse newsletter today 28,131 voted on whether they want the UK to stay in the EU - and most didn't. Only 41% in England thought we should stay, while it was 43% in Wales, 44% in N Ireland and 62% in Scotland. Across the UK, those aged 25 to 34 most want us to stay (65%) - those aged 65+ most want us to leave (71% voted 'leave') www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/19-10-2015/should-the-uk-stay-in-the-eu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deecie Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Got this in my mse newsletter today 28,131 voted on whether they want the UK to stay in the EU - and most didn't. Only 41% in England thought we should stay, while it was 43% in Wales, 44% in N Ireland and 62% in Scotland. Across the UK, those aged 25 to 34 most want us to stay (65%) - those aged 65+ most want us to leave (71% voted 'leave') www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/19-10-2015/should-the-uk-stay-in-the-eu Old folk set to ruin another referendum. Awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Old folk set to ruin another referendum. Awesome. the contrast between Scotland and rUK is what amazes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stocky Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 the contrast between Scotland and rUK is what amazes me. the contrast between Scotland and rUK is what excites me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giblet Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Got this in my mse newsletter today 28,131 voted on whether they want the UK to stay in the EU - and most didn't. Only 41% in England thought we should stay, while it was 43% in Wales, 44% in N Ireland and 62% in Scotland. Across the UK, those aged 25 to 34 most want us to stay (65%) - those aged 65+ most want us to leave (71% voted 'leave') www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/19-10-2015/should-the-uk-stay-in-the-eu that result would be perfection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Maybe but the EU is different to the union, especially as there's not the same emotional attachment to the EU like there is within Britain. That's what i was getting at with the British nationalism thing the contrast between Scotland and rUK is what excites me..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 the contrast between Scotland and rUK is what excites me..... I wonder if those figures were maintained closer to the referendum Scots unionists who would vote to stay in the EU will switch to vote to leave, to try and make sure we vote the same way as the rUK?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnyTJS Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Xenophobia is a very real factor in this debate. I hadn't realised I'd 'lost' that time, thanks for the clarification. I couldn't figure out much from the mass of convoluted faux intellectual tripe. This is how most 'arguments' go on here... 1+1=2. No it doesn't. Yest it does. But does 2+3=2. No. Well then, 4+2=7. Therefore you're 100% wrong. You lose. But that isn't how the argument went. You're inventing a false scenario because you are still unable to get beyond the simplistic, inaccurate and insulting 'anti-EU = xenophobe' mindset. Just because you get uncomfortable when an argument moves beyond simplistic sloganizing doesn't make it 'faux-intellectual'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewelk Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 But that isn't how the argument went. You're inventing a false scenario because you are still unable to get beyond the simplistic, inaccurate and insulting 'anti-EU = xenophobe' mindset. Just because you get uncomfortable when an argument moves beyond simplistic sloganizing doesn't make it 'faux-intellectual'. Do you outright dismiss xenophobia as a factor in this debate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Got this in my mse newsletter today 28,131 voted on whether they want the UK to stay in the EU - and most didn't. Only 41% in England thought we should stay, while it was 43% in Wales, 44% in N Ireland and 62% in Scotland. Across the UK, those aged 25 to 34 most want us to stay (65%) - those aged 65+ most want us to leave (71% voted 'leave') www.moneysavingexpert.com/poll/19-10-2015/should-the-uk-stay-in-the-eu 43% to stay in across the UK then - that's good territory for a second independence referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac1 Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Was there not something about the votes being counted collectively so not to have a separate scottish result. This was to ensure the actual scottish part of the vote would be unknown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flumax Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Was there not something about the votes being counted collectively so not to have a separate scottish result. This was to ensure the actual scottish part of the vote would be unknown. Not what I've seen (doesn't mean it ain't so) Dunno how you'd only have one countcount? , I would imagine it would be like the AV ref with report by counting areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde1998 Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2015-2016/0060/lbill_2015-20160060_en_2.htm#pb1-l1g1 Based on the Referendum Act - we get local totals, which we can work out a Scottish result from: Each of the following, as it exists on the day of the referendum, is a “voting area” for the purposes of this Act— (a) a district in England for which there is a district council; (b ) a county in England in which there are no districts with councils; (c ) a London borough; (d) the City of London (including the Inner and Middle Temples); (e) the Isles of Scilly; (f) a county or county borough in Wales; (g) a local government area in Scotland; (h) Northern Ireland; (i) Gibraltar. Edited October 30, 2015 by Clyde1998 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Well i've been saying for nearly a decade now (along with Fairlie and thplinth) that independence in the EU is no independence at all. Obviously i'm right again, just finished up reading all the Portugal stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernscum Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Well i've been saying for nearly a decade now (along with Fairlie and thplinth) that independence in the EU is no independence at all. Obviously i'm right again, just finished up reading all the Portugal stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Well i've been saying for nearly a decade now (along with Fairlie and thplinth) that independence in the EU is no independence at all. Obviously i'm right again, just finished up reading all the Portugal stuff. Except that's just hyperbole. There are degrees of independence Edited October 31, 2015 by Dave78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Except that's just hyperbole. There are degrees of independence It's not though considering the events of the last 12 months in Europe, specifically Greece and Portugal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It's not though considering the events of the last 12 months in Europe, specifically Greece and Portugal. Both countries are still more independent than Scotland in many ways though. Re Portugal, i only know the basics... Have the EU forced the president to bar the election winning parties from taking government? Or is he just exercising his presidential powers independently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 If we say independence is how much autonomy a country has, i.e. it's own parliament making decisions. Look at the current rate of autonomy Look at the rate of autonomy outside westminster Look at the autonomy inside the EU/ Look at the autonomy if outside the EU and westminster. My contention is the last option provides the most autonomy. Rather than arguing whether the EU influences decisions, when there is little transparency. One can do a simple thought experiment and see what options provide the most autonomy for a country. If outside the EU and Westminster that would obviously provide the most political autonomy, I cannot see how this can be an issue. However that's not arguing what is best for Scotland merely what gives the most independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Surely no country is truly independent then. China fix their currency to continue their 'growth', while Russia has massive issues due to external policies. If two of the biggest economies struggle for independence, what chance do we have, either within or outwith the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Well that's my point it's not independence, is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kumnio Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Makes the vote irrelevant then, the EU is the UKs biggest partner, we need to conform regardless of the outcome. We can be inside moaning about it, or outside moaning about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Makes the vote irrelevant then, the EU is the UKs biggest partner, we need to conform regardless of the outcome. We can be inside moaning about it, or outside moaning about it. Sounds like the pro business EU shite a politician would come out with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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