Refugee Crisis

[Orraloon]

23 minutes ago, Robroysboy said:

Russian involvement in syria and unkraine stinks. 

In saying that the UK and Americans involvement in Libya,  Iraq and Afghanistan could also be open to criticism.

Feel so lucky that I can bring my kids up in a country with no war. 

Aye, it's brilliant that that the UK is hardly ever involved in any wars.

100 years of war

[G-Man]

No war on our shores, no bombs dropping on our homes, no guns firing at us when we try to get our shopping, no one bombing or shooting at our children's schools, so on and so forth.  We just love doing it one removed now. 

(You're being a wee bisum here Orra but you're still in my scrapbook. )

 

[ParisInAKilt]

7 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Aye, it's brilliant that that the UK is hardly ever involved in any wars.

100 years of war

Not forgetting the countless arms sold to other countries so they could wage further wars. 

Saying that the Iraq war etc could be open to criticism is putting it mildly. It was acts of terror and if the other way around people wouldn't stand for it. 

[phart]

8 hours ago, Robroysboy said:

Russian involvement in syria and unkraine stinks. 

In saying that the UK and Americans involvement in Libya,  Iraq and Afghanistan could also be open to criticism.

Feel so lucky that I can bring my kids up in a country with no war. 

Ukraine is fair enough, but in Syria the Russians have been invited and did the most to bring an end to the massive bloodshed. They got Assad to get rid of all his Weapons of Mass Destruction, bombed the shit out of ISIS and the other "moderate" (the free Syrian Army used chemical weapons are drugged up and indulging in cannibalism and mass infanticide) rebels.

Russia bombed the shit out of Aleppo and the Kurds moved into the area to take control, now Turkey are shelling the shit out of them as we speak. The Saudi's,Turks and Israel prefer ISIS to Assad and are working towards that with the help of NATO, however that's starting to dry up as more and more people realise what a feck up they have created.

No one talks about Yemen being starved to death really either, something Bernie Sanders is keen on. To mix threads.

[Orraloon]

11 hours ago, G-Man said:

No war on our shores, no bombs dropping on our homes, no guns firing at us when we try to get our shopping, no one bombing or shooting at our children's schools, so on and so forth.  We just love doing it one removed now. 

(You're being a wee bisum here Orra but you're still in my scrapbook. )

 

I'm more scrapheap than scrapbook material.

[phart]

Saudi's moving planes to Turkey and vowing to oust Assad.

[phart]

I'm hearing massive military build ups happening, Turks bombing the shit out of the Kurds, hospitals being hit in northern Syria, The Assad forces have taken Allepo (mostly and cut of ISIS oil convoy to Turkey).

This is about to turn into a clusterfeck.

[Mee]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/23/number-of-refugee-arrivals-in-greece-passes-100000-in-less-than-two-months

 

This year is going to be nuts. This could swing the EU referendum as it develops thought the spring

[Orraloon]

59 minutes ago, Mee said:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/23/number-of-refugee-arrivals-in-greece-passes-100000-in-less-than-two-months

 

This year is going to be nuts. This could swing the EU referendum as it develops thought the spring

How do you think the UK leaving the EU would change any of this?

 

[thplinth]

So with very high unemployment levels in many Eurozone countries and us facing years of austerity George Soros is campaigning hard for the EU to accept many millions more and he keeps banging on about the EU's untapped AAA credit rating. Like a dog with a bone he keeps coming back to it. He wants us to borrow a shit load to pay for opportunities for all the refugees. Basically we all go into debt to pay for it all. I wonder if Banker George sorry Humanitarian George and his pals have been slavering over that untapped credit rating for a while now.

 

MUNICH – Important progress was made at the donors’ conference for Syrian refugees convened in London on February 4. But much more remains to be done. The international community is still vastly underestimating what is needed to support refugees, both inside and outside the borders of the European Union. To deal with the refugee crisis, while putting the EU’s largely unused AAA borrowing capacity to better use, requires a paradigm shift.

Rather than scraping together insufficient funds year after year, it is time to engage in “surge funding.” Spending a large amount of money up front would be far more effective than spending the same amount over several years. Frontloading the spending would allow us to address the most dangerous consequences of the crisis – including anti-immigrant sentiment in receiving countries and despondency and marginalization among refugees – more effectively. Making large initial investments would help tip the economic, political, and social dynamics away from xenophobia and disaffection, and toward constructive outcomes that benefit refugees and the recipient countries alike.

....

The approach suggested here would cost more than EU member states can afford out of current budgets. A minimum of €40 billion ($45 billion) needs to be spent annually in the next 3-5 years; but even larger amounts would be justified to bring the migration crisis under control. In fact, so far, lack of adequate financing is the main obstacle to implementation of successful programs in any of the frontline countries, particularly in Turkey. While Germany has an unallocated budget surplus of €6 billion ($6.8 billion), other EU countries are running deficits. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble has proposed a pan-European fuel tax, but that would demand either unanimous agreement or a coalition of the willing.

This enhances the merits of having recourse to the EU’s largely unused AAA credit. The migration crisis poses an existential threat to the EU. Indeed, with the north pitted against the south, and the east confronting the west, the EU is coming apart at the seams. When should the EU’s AAA credit be mobilized if not at a moment when the EU is in mortal danger? It is not as if there is no precedent for this approach; throughout history, governments have issued bonds in response to national emergencies.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/refugee-crisis-surge-funding-most-effective-approach-by-george-soros-2016-02

Edited February 24, 2016 by thplinth

[PapofGlencoe]

I thought I'd comment as i have some experience from a refugee camp in the Balkans (Croatian/Slovenian border).  I ended up going as a volunteer to one of the processing camps (long story...interest, seemed like a good thing to do, invited by a Croatian girl..very long story)..

 The camp was one they stop at when they first get to Slovenia.  There were about 6 large semi-permanent tents to house maybe 1500 people each.  Hard to tell exact numbers but when i was there a further 800 arrived straight off a police escorted convoy of buses (we gave every one of them food, water, chocolate for the kids).

I didn't know what to expect, I'm not naive (I've seen the pictures of large groups of men).  This was different.  It must have been about 75% families.  With small children.  Head of the household, wife and kids.  And they look so normal..that's an obvious point..they are not aliens but human beings..but you get my drift.  Very grateful, polite people.  

I did wonder, while i was driving through beautiful Slovenia, why they didn't want to stay there instead of Austria (the destination).  I can't think these people are scroungers at all, I think they're just looking for the best life.  I'm not sure the Balkans are perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a safe haven - there are large anti immigrant feelings.  In this camp, there were only about 20 volunteers; and some of them i'm told were paid by the UN.  Few were local. 

Point is, i think through more official channels we're looking at large scale migration of families - not men 18-35 years old as the media would have us believe.  Certainly now, rather than earlier in the crisis.  

I do remember there was a much smaller group which we didn't see, the army and police told us to clear an area in a tent for "dangerous people".  They were to get "deal with".  It seemed like a small number, though, i wonder what the hell it was all about.

Anyway, that's what I saw over three days.  I get that there are political leaders having big arguments but from what I saw it's families crossing the borders - they see Western Europe as the ideal.

[Lamia]

On 24 February 2016 at 0:23 PM, PapofGlencoe said:

 

Point is, i think through more official channels we're looking at large scale migration of families - not men 18-35 years old as the media would have us believe.  Certainly now, rather than earlier in the crisis.  

 

This.

 

I honestly don't think people actually realise that they are ordinary families just trying to have a normal life. I for one certainly don't think I am  more deserving than them to have what they are being denied just down to an accident of birth.

[Ally Bongo]

 

[Jaggy Jim]

There was an excellent interview on Good Morning Scotland today with an English artist and his daughter who live on Lesbos and have been helping refugees arriving on the beach next to their home for the last year. Every politician in Europe should be made to listen to it. It's at 1 hour 39 minutes.

http://bbc.in/1oFKXvL

[phart]

Sphinx

Those look like interesting bits to listen to, will need to remind myself when i get a bit of time.

[thewelk]

On 24/02/2016 at 1:23 PM, PapofGlencoe said:

I thought I'd comment as i have some experience from a refugee camp in the Balkans (Croatian/Slovenian border).  I ended up going as a volunteer to one of the processing camps (long story...interest, seemed like a good thing to do, invited by a Croatian girl..very long story)..

 The camp was one they stop at when they first get to Slovenia.  There were about 6 large semi-permanent tents to house maybe 1500 people each.  Hard to tell exact numbers but when i was there a further 800 arrived straight off a police escorted convoy of buses (we gave every one of them food, water, chocolate for the kids).

I didn't know what to expect, I'm not naive (I've seen the pictures of large groups of men).  This was different.  It must have been about 75% families.  With small children.  Head of the household, wife and kids.  And they look so normal..that's an obvious point..they are not aliens but human beings..but you get my drift.  Very grateful, polite people.  

I did wonder, while i was driving through beautiful Slovenia, why they didn't want to stay there instead of Austria (the destination).  I can't think these people are scroungers at all, I think they're just looking for the best life.  I'm not sure the Balkans are perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a safe haven - there are large anti immigrant feelings.  In this camp, there were only about 20 volunteers; and some of them i'm told were paid by the UN.  Few were local. 

Point is, i think through more official channels we're looking at large scale migration of families - not men 18-35 years old as the media would have us believe.  Certainly now, rather than earlier in the crisis.  

I do remember there was a much smaller group which we didn't see, the army and police told us to clear an area in a tent for "dangerous people".  They were to get "deal with".  It seemed like a small number, though, i wonder what the hell it was all about.

Anyway, that's what I saw over three days.  I get that there are political leaders having big arguments but from what I saw it's families crossing the borders - they see Western Europe as the ideal.

That genuine unfiltered untwisted observation of a real camp will never get you a job as a journo!

[scoobydoo]

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/31086082/police-deny-being-outnumbered-and-underprepared-as-out-of-control-brawls-rock-melbourne-and-sydney/

 

Interesting night last night in Sydney and Melbourne. But yeah, keep letting anyone into your country.

Also in perth, a few weeks ago, just up the road from me, a sudanese kid, wannabe gangsta,  was murdered and I think 2 aboriginals are up for his killing. These groups hate each other.

[aaid]

 

8 minutes ago, scoobydoo said:

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/31086082/police-deny-being-outnumbered-and-underprepared-as-out-of-control-brawls-rock-melbourne-and-sydney/

 

Interesting night last night in Sydney and Melbourne. But yeah, keep letting anyone into your country.

Also in perth, a few weeks ago, just up the road from me, a sudanese kid, wannabe gangsta,  was murdered and I think 2 aboriginals are up for his killing. These groups hate each other.

Shocking state of affairs.  Who let those aboriginals into Australia in the first place.

[phart]

What were the nationalities of the gang members? I've been trying to find out, apex and Islander gangs they are called.

Where did you find out that info?

 

[Bannannan]

Frau Merkel under pressure!

[phart]

2 hours ago, phart said:

What were the nationalities of the gang members? I've been trying to find out, apex and Islander gangs they are called.

Where did you find out that info?

 

I managed to find out after much random searching that Apex have a large number of sudanese and islanders are pacific islanders., had to go beyond all the reuters stuff though.

[macy37]

Have to say there was plenty of refugees kicking about over in the Faterland at the weekend.

I didn't find it comfortable.

[phart]

Wow a Saudi airstrike in Yemen has actually made the news over here.

They've been starving the whole country for a while now. Also using planes they're not meant to have, wonder who lent them them.

[phart]

Russia withdrawing militarily from Syria as they say their objectives " Our objective is to stabilize the legitimate authority and create conditions for a political compromise" have been met.

We'll see what happens , seems the Russians are a lot better tat fighting ISIS than the West, unless the West were really just fecking about trying to have their cake and eat it.

[fishcumnock]

Have been keeping an eye on Yemen ,heard death toll about 4,000 so far.

But hey the saudi's must be good guys?