neilser Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 How the fk would you know about the vast majority of scots. Just cause you've flown an 'I love refugees banner'? Love your knowledge of different nations, by the way. How would you know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So they can fly out safely from Syria without danger. It can't be that terrible a country then. I tend more to think of countries where people cannot come and go freely as somewhere terrible but evidently these people can fly out. I hope this country is vetting them all thoroughly or else there could be another Abul Hamza or IS sympathist amongst them. Daily Mail reader IMO. Pretty disgusting attitude and I say that as somebody who's ancestors moved to Britain at the start of the 1900s to seek a better life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Sorry if I don't fit the Bob Geldof mould. You fit the BNP mould. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Have to admit that the PC brigade are getting their ass handed too them on this thread for once far better arguements from the "biggots" Edited September 15, 2015 by hampden_loon2878 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Aye right. So what we have is that anyone not with the same opinion as some here are racists without any knowledge of said posters background and history. Pretty pathetic I say. Not as pathetic as you insinuating that these refugees are coming here purely to claim benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Have to admit that the PC brigade are getting their ass handed too them on this thread for once far better arguements from the "biggots" You'd think you'd at least be able to spell the word bigot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Have to admit that the PC brigade are getting their ass handed too them on this thread for once far better arguements from the "biggots" Aye I'd think that way if it backed up my own views Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mee Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 If anyone wants to catch up without reading the whole thread this just about covers both sides of the argument. http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/migrants-refugees-opening-door-worse/9913 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Daily Mail reader IMO. Pretty disgusting attitude and I say that as somebody who's ancestors moved to Britain at the start of the 1900s to seek a better life. One thing that amuses me is that a lot of folk who have these sort of views are migrants themselves, or descended from migrants who arrived here not that long ago. It's OK for them to do it but not OK for these dammed foreigners. Of course if it wasn't for migration none of us would be here at all - if you go back far enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's a real complicated issue and to see people taking a polarising view of good v bad, liberal v racist is pretty depressing but that's political debate these days. Ultimately the UK is a very good country. One of the best in the world with stability, potential, protection, English language, wealth, deep rooted liberalism of a manner of strains. I can't blame anyone from a poorer nation wanting to come here as it's better than 90% of countries in the world. It's not arrogance. It's not nationalism or chest beating it's just basic facts. For all the flaws it has like any country the good outweighs the bad massively. UK, Germany, Scandinavian countries are the "promised land" over other EU countries. You have a terrible confusing complicated war going on in Syria. Not started by Tony Blair (boo hiss) but by centuries of Shia v Sunni hatred, a despotic dictatorship, intensified by the growth of a militant fascist brach of islam which has been encouraged by the Wahhbism beliefs of those bastards from the House of Saud. We also have a collapse of border countrols in Libya so there are 2 recognised ways to get into the European Union which can be followed by social media like Facebook with communication using whatsapp too. Again I don't blame people for wanting to get to a better country. If we were to have open borders then our public services, support networks and health services would cease to work as there would be a huge influx of people not planned for. Budgets are set for x amount of citizens years in advance. Germany have really messed up. Very unGerman. Very saintly. Very stupid. As now there is a rush to get there as they have said 500 000 will be taken in with no real planning. Borders are now being closed. The EU is built on freedom of movement and that is being eroded due to this crisis. The number of flights from Middle Eastern countries to Turkey soared after the German announcement as people saw a way of getting into EU. A massive carrot was dangled. I think the UK Governments policy of taking people from refugee camps is correct. There are millions of refugees in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan who need help. Actions from Germany only encourages people traffikers and economic migrants. Ultimately countries are built on selfish needs of the people who live there already. We have a cushy existence in the West compared to developing or under developing countries. For every banner held up at a football game for 5 mins (as people pat themselves on the back) and every politician cringely saying they would house a refugee (still not seen it happen yet) it has to be recognised that mass influxes of people with no support, jobs, housing brings conflict with people already there. Look at the "liberal" bastions of Scandinavia. Denmark has a right wing populist party as it's 2nd largest. Sweden has a right wing populist party making a breakthrough in parliament now. We can never rest on our laurels and think our country is somehow welcoming and better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So, do we have more legal rights than these foreigners? Are you OK with that. Why should it be much easier for us to migrate, in search off a better life, than it is for them? You seem to confusing immigration with migration. But should a citizen of a country (or a politico-economic union such as the EU) not have more rights in their own country than someone from outside that country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's a real complicated issue and to see people taking a polarising view of good v bad, liberal v racist is pretty depressing but that's political debate these days. Ultimately the UK is a very good country. One of the best in the world with stability, potential, protection, English language, wealth, deep rooted liberalism of a manner of strains. I can't blame anyone from a poorer nation wanting to come here as it's better than 90% of countries in the world. It's not arrogance. It's not nationalism or chest beating it's just basic facts. For all the flaws it has like any country the good outweighs the bad massively. UK, Germany, Scandinavian countries are the "promised land" over other EU countries. You have a terrible confusing complicated war going on in Syria. Not started by Tony Blair (boo hiss) but by centuries of Shia v Sunni hatred, a despotic dictatorship, intensified by the growth of a militant fascist brach of islam which has been encouraged by the Wahhbism beliefs of those bastards from the House of Saud. We also have a collapse of border countrols in Libya so there are 2 recognised ways to get into the European Union which can be followed by social media like Facebook with communication using whatsapp too. Again I don't blame people for wanting to get to a better country. If we were to have open borders then our public services, support networks and health services would cease to work as there would be a huge influx of people not planned for. Budgets are set for x amount of citizens years in advance. Germany have really messed up. Very unGerman. Very saintly. Very stupid. As now there is a rush to get there as they have said 500 000 will be taken in with no real planning. Borders are now being closed. The EU is built on freedom of movement and that is being eroded due to this crisis. The number of flights from Middle Eastern countries to Turkey soared after the German announcement as people saw a way of getting into EU. A massive carrot was dangled. I think the UK Governments policy of taking people from refugee camps is correct. There are millions of refugees in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan who need help. Actions from Germany only encourages people traffikers and economic migrants. Ultimately countries are built on selfish needs of the people who live there already. We have a cushy existence in the West compared to developing or under developing countries. For every banner held up at a football game for 5 mins (as people pat themselves on the back) and every politician cringely saying they would house a refugee (still not seen it happen yet) it has to be recognised that mass influxes of people with no support, jobs, housing brings conflict with people already there. Look at the "liberal" bastions of Scandinavia. Denmark has a right wing populist party as it's 2nd largest. Sweden has a right wing populist party making a breakthrough in parliament now. We can never rest on our laurels and think our country is somehow welcoming and better than others. Very good post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I agree. Can we actively encourage women from Hawaii to emigrate here? I'm happy to give one for the team and procreate with them.My wife's fed up with folk asking if they can breed with her husband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampden_loon2878 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 are you discriminating because i am dyslexic, shame on you! Call the PC brigade,,, oh wait? You'd think you'd at least be able to spell the word bigot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hauniscots Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 How would you know? I never claimed to know. Try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mee Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You seem to confusing immigration with migration. But should a citizen of a country (or a politico-economic union such as the EU) not have more rights in their own country than someone from outside that country? I think the suggestion is to not have countries anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You seem to confusing immigration with migration. I'm not confusing them. The only difference is a few bits off paper and a few arbitrary borders set up by people who have the power to do it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Gotta love folk that can't accept the negative aspects of their leaders foreign policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) See the plan wasn't for a new leader it's to destablise the region for Israel. As their foreign policy dictates and as we did in Iraq. "Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time. Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war. " Ahtisaari held talks with envoys from the five permanent members of the UN security council in February 2012. He said that during those discussions, the Russian ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, laid out a three-point plan, which included a proposal for Assad to cede power at some point after peace talks had started between the regime and the opposition. But he said that the US, Britain and France were so convinced that the Syrian dictator was about to fall, they ignored the proposal." http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-aside?CMP=fb_gu Edited September 15, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 The only difference is a few bits off paper and a few arbitrary borders set up by people who have the power to do it.. So basically the system the world has been based on for centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 So basically the system the world has been based on for centuries. You should open your mind to new ideas. These people are not going to destroy your way of life. We should show them some compassion and allow them to share some of the good things that we have. They might even contribute and make it better. The alternative is to build stronger barriers and send them back to their own country to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auchinyell Sox Change Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You should open your mind to new ideas. These people are not going to destroy your way of life. We should show them some compassion and allow them to share some of the good things that we have. They might even contribute and make it better. The alternative is to build stronger barriers and send them back to their own country to die. Re Compassion Has anyone seriously looked at sponsoring individuals/ families , or is it all just flag waving and tin rattlimg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larky Masher Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 You should open your mind to new ideas. These people are not going to destroy your way of life. We should show them some compassion and allow them to share some of the good things that we have. They might even contribute and make it better. The alternative is to build stronger barriers and send them back to their own country to die. A significant proportion of them wouldn't die if they were sent back to their own country they are economic migrants not refugees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 A significant proportion of them wouldn't die if they were sent back to their own country they are economic migrants not refugees. Source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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