Parklife Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 That's a bit of a leap. In what way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Distasteful maybe but don't think you can compare a song about a football team somebody chooses to support and one about persecuting people because of their faith. One version is banned for a reason. I'd happily never singing Hello Hello ever again. I don't think the majority of Rangers fans would say same about Singing about fenians, chapels saddening your eyes, building gallows, German bombers being shot down or all the other dross they sing whilst the so called decent fans are allegedly too scared to say anything . Going down the legal route you mentioned earlier, German Bombers & Build my Gallows aren't illegal. If the Killie version was banned it would disappear overnight. Of that im sure. I would agree with that. I would say Hello Hello is sung purely as an act of defiance these days & nobody really believes they are up to their Knees in anyones blood. there are so many levels on which you dont seem to get it.... there is always a threat of serious unrest at an OF game, violence in the pubs and bars domestic violence, people are regularly stabbed, wives are beaten. Not just on match day but on a an ongoing basis, driven by a whole serious of ritual hatred, singing and tribal activities. The singing ban is not about the singing - its about the violence. Stop the civil unrest, hatred and violence and you could probably sing what you want ? I don't necessary agree with that. There was more trouble on the day of the Scotland vs Italy game than there is at a normal Old Firm game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 In what way? Pretty self explanatory. A post mentioning Celtic fans with a Fenian army flag going to Ice Cube is a pretty substantial leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) Pretty self explanatory. A post mentioning Celtic fans with a Fenian army flag going to Ice Cube is a pretty substantial leap. But the point wasn't going from Celtic to ice cube, it was going from context of word usage to context of word usage. EDIT: Aesops fables aren't about the comings and goings of animals but about the human condition. Aesop was the guy who wrote the tortoise and the hare in case i'm talking to the wind. Edited February 27, 2015 by phart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora MaDonald Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Pretty self explanatory. A post mentioning Celtic fans with a Fenian army flag going to Ice Cube is a pretty substantial leap. Snoop Doggie Dog's a good shelick man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Pretty self explanatory. A post mentioning Celtic fans with a Fenian army flag going to Ice Cube is a pretty substantial leap. I think the point being made was self-explanatory. Ice Cube (and other black rappers) have commonly used the term "Nigger" (nigga) in their work in an attempt to reclaim the word. To attempt to take away from the power it used to have. That doesn't mean that it's okay for me to walk up to them and start calling them it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think the point being made was self-explanatory. Ice Cube (and other black rappers) have commonly used the term "Nigger" (nigga) in their work in an attempt to reclaim the word. To attempt to take away from the power it used to have. That doesn't mean that it's okay for me to walk up to them and start calling them it. I think we all know this is a completely different context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parklife Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think we all know this is a completely different context. It's a valid parallel to draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I think we all know this is a completely different context. Can you explain how? I thought it was a pretty good analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Can you explain how? I thought it was a pretty good analogy. The question started off with "Do you know any Catholics ok with being called a fenian or Asians being called a Paki". Myself and a couple of other posters answered yes which was largely ignored, someone then mentioned the Paddy McCourt flag and all of a sudden the stance was changed to "aye but you wouldn't call Ice Cube a nigger". To me it seemed like the answer to the original question was being ignored and then the question itself twisted to try and prove a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I don't necessary agree with that. There was more trouble on the day of the Scotland vs Italy game than there is at a normal Old Firm game. It's a very good example of why old firm games are a symptom of a deeper cultural problem with alcohol. Old firm day is an excuse for folk to go on an all day bender. It basically just focuses all the idiots to go out on the same Sunday and binge drink. However, there is definitely a problem with sectarianism on top of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) The question started off with "Do you know any Catholics ok with being called a fenian or Asians being called a Paki". Myself and a couple of other posters answered yes which was largely ignored, someone then mentioned the Paddy McCourt flag and all of a sudden the stance was changed to "aye but you wouldn't call Ice Cube a nigger". To me it seemed like the answer to the original question was being ignored and then the question itself twisted to try and prove a point. Two different issues really. I will believe you that you know Catholics and Asians who are ok with being called insulting names in an insulting manner by Protestants/whites. The point I was trying to make was that one Irish Catholic calling another 'Fenian', one Asian calling his Asian mate 'Paki' or Ice Cube calling his band 'niggers' is different from protestants chanting about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, or the BNP wanting to send the pakis back or wanting the niggers out. Context and intent is all. The words themselves are largely incidental. Edited February 27, 2015 by adamntg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairbairn Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Two different issues really. I will believe you that you know Catholics and Asians who are ok with being called insulting names in an insulting manner by Protestants/whites. The point I was trying to make was that one Irish Catholic calling another 'Fenian', one Asian calling his Asian mate 'Paki' or Ice Cube calling his band 'niggers' is different from protestants chanting about being up to their knees in Fenian blood, or the BNP wanting to send the pakis back or wanting the niggers out. Context and intent is all. The words themselves are largely incidental. And that takes me back to my original point about it being a bit of a leap from the question originally asked. And the question also didn't say anything about an "insulting manner". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamntg Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 And that takes me back to my original point about it being a bit of a leap from the question originally asked. And the question also didn't say anything about an "insulting manner". Why would it even be a question otherwise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It'd your pal squirrel who says your hello hello version about Ayr is perfectly fine. It's a song having a pop at your footballing rivals, not a very tasteful one I admit, but not grossly offensive in it's insinuations outside of the stadium. The Billy Boys on the other hand is celebrating triumphalism over a minority of the population, who may or may not have anything to do with Celtic. As mentioned elsewhere swap "Fenian" in the lyrics with "Nigger" or "Paki" and does it seem acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgowmancity Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 The Billy Boys on the other hand is celebrating triumphalism over a minority of the population That is rubbish, it's a song about a Bridgeton Gang fighting another gang originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 So as long as it's legal that's okay? Whether it's offensive or derogatory is immaterial? You do understand it used to be legal to keep slaves? It didn't make it morally right? You hide behind the law all you like but just remember that this is the same argument that you deride the SPFL for when they don't punish rangers. They obeyed the "laws" so aren't punished. Yet more hypocrisy from you. And you lecture others on how terrible their club is? Perhaps you know better than me as you seem very similar in my eyes. I'm happy with my clubs history in terms of fan behavour and club behavouir (apart from MJ's arse licking of Sevco) Can you say the same about 100+ of years of bigotry that was actually a policy at your club? Wee bigots such as that knob Jimmy Bell have been employed at your club for decades. One look at Rangers Media will see how disgusting your fanbase is. Have a look at a Killie forum and let me know if there's the same vile/scum amongst our support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 So you think fighting in the stands is the way to solve the problem? Utter bollocks. I go to the fitba to enjoy the game and support my team. Not to get a sore mouth or chibbed by some wee ned with an attitude problem. The onus on eradicating this from our game lies squarely with the clubs, the SFA/SPFL and Police Scotland, not the proper fans who are doing fcuk all wrong. Have you lobbied your club? Have you voiced your concerns? Have you brough it up with the Rangers Trust, Sons of Struth, Rangers Assembly etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 It's a song having a pop at your footballing rivals, not a very tasteful one I admit, but not grossly offensive in it's insinuations outside of the stadium. The Billy Boys on the other hand is celebrating triumphalism over a minority of the population, who may or may not have anything to do with Celtic. As mentioned elsewhere swap "Fenian" in the lyrics with "Nigger" or "Paki" and does it seem acceptable? I don't think any version is acceptable at all. Whether it be black, white, fenian, paki, nigger or Ayr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 That is rubbish, it's a song about a Bridgeton Gang fighting another gang originally. Agreed those are the origins of the song. Although to me (and many others I'm sure) the use if the term "Fenian" casts the net much further in terms of those who it may offend. However you look at it, it's got bawz aw to do with fitba. And while I appreciate many terracing chants don't, few of those irrelevant songs have such an offensive edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcmfc Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 (edited) I had thought in other teams versions of the song the word blood was substituted with scum? Edited February 27, 2015 by sbcmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I don't think any version is acceptable at all. Whether it be black, white, fenian, paki, nigger or Ayr. What about build a bonfire? Are Man Utd ok to sing about putting citeh and Liverpool in a fire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I had thought in other teams versions of the song the word blood was substituted with scum? In my expereince at Killie, it depends on age of those singing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I had thought in other teams versions of the song the word blood was substituted with scum? I'm pretty tall but even the Ayr scum tend to go above my knees... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debian Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 What about build a bonfire? Are Man Utd ok to sing about putting citeh and Liverpool in a fire? Of course not. Why would you find that acceptable you silly man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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