Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Where do you think that investment will come from, and how much do you think it would need?

https://www.theacornproject.uk/
 

[phart]

£2.5 billion for Project longboat.

[hampden_loon2878]

8 minutes ago, phart said:

£2.5 billion for Project longboat.

Sure the acorn project was 1bn, but that didn’t only include carbon capture 

[Ally Bongo]

Stephen Flynn new SNP leader at Westminster

Mhairi Black is deputy

[Squirrelhumper]

On 12/5/2022 at 5:20 PM, aaid said:

How would he do that exactly?

By having a backbone.  Bit like Cherry.

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

By having a backbone.  Bit like Cherry.

She’s doing a great job in stopping the GRA bill. 

[stocky]

1 hour ago, Ally Bongo said:

Stephen Flynn new SNP leader at Westminster

Mhairi Black is deputy

Mr Flynn is 34

Mhari is 28.

New generation,right enough.

I'm nearly older than both put together..

Edited December 6, 2022 by stocky

[aaid]

Here’s Joanna showing some backbone by getting her excuses in early.  Nothing to stop her taking on a front bench role that’s inconsistent with work on this committee and nothing to stop her making a statement *before* the results were announced.  Also interesting that she hasn’t congratulated Stephen Flynn but rather makes it all about her - again,

 

 

[aaid]

20 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

Why some MPs and hangers on think there should be clear water between the Scottish Parliament SNP and London SNP is bizarre to me. 

 

I’m amazed not only that people can’t see how damaging this would be but actually think it would be a good thing. 

I’m just watching Kevin Schofield - a well known Labour-leaning journalist spinning a whole “collision course with Sturgeon” narrative.  People should think about that narrative, who is spreading it and why.

[Bzzzz]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:35 PM, vanderark14 said:

all the bitching between Alba and SNP supporters - Congrats to you all you are doing the unionists job for them

Exactly. It's bloody ridiculous. Focus on the common goal, we all want independence, once we get there then fowk can argue about the colour of shite if they want. 

[Bzzzz]

10 hours ago, aaid said:

I’m amazed not only that people can’t see how damaging this would be but actually think it would be a good thing. 

I’m just watching Kevin Schofield - a well known Labour-leaning journalist spinning a whole “collision course with Sturgeon” narrative.  People should think about that narrative, who is spreading it and why.

There are quite a few fowk (myself included) that think some in the parliament in England are getting FAR too comfortable and enjoying it just a bit too much, they're becoming part of the british establishment, we want independence not another british party. 

[Orraloon]

11 hours ago, stocky said:

Mr Flynn is 34

Mhari is 28.

New generation,right enough.

I'm nearly older than both put together..

Which is a good thing IMO. 

Alex Salmond was leader of the party at 36. 

[mcguffin]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

Which is a good thing IMO. 

Alex Salmond was leader of the party at 36. 

There's a wee bit about Stephen Flynn in Lesley Riddoch's latest:
https://share.transistor.fm/s/6c937b94

Sounds like he's been maneuvring behind the scenes for a while to get this role. And he's succeeded in his goal. I think you need good political maneuvring skills to become a successful politician. (And both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, to their credit,  have a fair bit of that).  Good luck to him and Mhairi Black and hope they can use their political skills to further the cause of Scottish Independence, in that god awful place, the Palace of Westminster.

On a less positive note, Lesley also reveals the reason why the Greens didn't show up for any of the 'Supreme Court Ruling' rallies held across Scotland last month. Worth a listen.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by mcguffin

[Squirrelhumper]

12 hours ago, aaid said:

She’s doing a great job in stopping the GRA bill. 

Suppose that's what happens when majority of the party are lapdogs. 

Shame more don't have a backbone. Tbf I don't blame them, some of them won't believe their luck to be an MP/,MSP.

[Squirrelhumper]

12 hours ago, aaid said:

Here’s Joanna showing some backbone by getting her excuses in early.  Nothing to stop her taking on a front bench role that’s inconsistent with work on this committee and nothing to stop her making a statement *before* the results were announced.  Also interesting that she hasn’t congratulated Stephen Flynn but rather makes it all about her - again,

 

 

She retweeted the SNP post about him being appointed. 

I don't necessarily agree with JC on GRA but admire the fact she has her own mind which seems almost alien amongst some of the party (and a sizeable % of the fanboys that can't bring themselves to be critical of the SNP).

 

[mcguffin]

17 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

She retweeted the SNP post about him being appointed. 

I don't necessarily agree with JC on GRA but admire the fact she has her own mind which seems almost alien amongst some of the party (and a sizeable % of the fanboys that can't bring themselves to be critical of the SNP).

 

Good points.

I also can see why Joanna Cherry might want to continue to work on the Human Rights Committee (maybe a better use of her QC forensic questioning skills than being an SNP front-bench nodder?). Her forensic questioning of a Twitter executive on the topic of online misogyny is a good example of a lawyer asking probing questions (and an eye-contact-avoiding corporate executive attempting to dodge them):

 

[aaid]

I think she’s at it here.  Pete Wishart has been chair of the Scottish Select Committee since 2015 and has held numerous front bench spokesman roles since then.  All about Joanna.

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by aaid

[mcguffin]

Joanna Cherry's tweet seems clear enough. Maybe I'm missing some hidden meaning?:

[aaid]

56/44 Yes/No

51% for the SNP in WM VI and 53% saying they’d vote SNP if it was a defacto referendum.

I await all those who were commenting off the back of the Redfield Wilton poll on how the SNP’s proposed strategy was so flawed.

It is of course, just one poll.
 

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/support-for-scottish-independence-rises-to-56-after-supreme-court-ruling-stv-poll

Edited December 7, 2022 by aaid

[Dave78]

3 hours ago, mcguffin said:

There's a wee bit about Stephen Flynn in Lesley Riddoch's latest:
https://share.transistor.fm/s/6c937b94

Sounds like he's been maneuvring behind the scenes for a while to get this role. And he's succeeded in his goal. I think you need good political maneuvring skills to become a successful politician. (And both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, to their credit,  have a fair bit of that).  Good luck to him and Mhairi Black and hope they can use their political skills to further the cause of Scottish Independence, in that god awful place, the Palace of Westminster.

On a less positive note, Lesley also reveals the reason why the Greens didn't show up for any of the 'Supreme Court Ruling' rallies held across Scotland last month. Worth a listen.

 

Listened to that in the car. An excellent discussion. Bit disappointing that the Greens have a policy of not sharing a platform with Alba.

40 minutes ago, aaid said:

56/44 Yes/No

51% for the SNP in WM VI and 53% saying they’d vote SNP if it was a defacto referendum.

I await all those who were commenting off the back of the Redfield Wilton poll on how the SNP’s proposed strategy was so flawed.

It is of course, just one poll.
 

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/support-for-scottish-independence-rises-to-56-after-supreme-court-ruling-stv-poll

Some positive news!

The 2% bump (from 51% to 53%) is a bit concerning though. I was hoping the SNP would be able to strip away many more pro-Yes voters from the Labour party in a defacto indyref. Instead, that 2% is probably made up of Green/Alba voters.

[aaid]

9 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

 

The 2% bump (from 51% to 53%) is a bit concerning though. I was hoping the SNP would be able to strip away many more pro-Yes voters from the Labour party in a defacto indyref. Instead, that 2% is probably made up of Green/Alba voters.

Its not concerning as far as I'm concerned.  This defacto referendum is something which it is going to take some time for people to get their heads around.

The key numbers are the ones on the Indy question.  Get that to 60%+ and have it stick there for about 6 months and that will pretty much take care of everything.

My concern at the moment is that we might just be seeing a short term reaction and that it will die away back to 50/50.

As always, time will tell.

[Dave78]

22 minutes ago, aaid said:

This defacto referendum is something which it is going to take some time for people to get their heads around.
 

That's true.

I hadn't know that Gordon Brown was due to release his report. By doing so, the Labour party are engaging in the whole defacto indyref idea, which is a good thing for the pro-democracy movement.

It makes it easier for the Yes side to frame the election as an indyref, rather than just a normal election.

The choice for voters will be:

1. Independence with SNP/Greens/Alba

2. "Close to federalism" / Vow 2.0 with Labour

3. No change with the Tories

[aaid]

2 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

That's true.

I hadn't know that Gordon Brown was due to release his report. By doing so, the Labour party are engaging in the whole defacto indyref idea, which is a good thing for the pro-democracy movement.

It makes it easier for the Yes side to frame the election as an indyref, rather than just a normal election.

The choice for voters will be:

1. Independence with SNP/Greens/Alba

2. "Close to federalism" / Vow 2.0 with Labour

3. No change with the Tories

I'm starting to get the feeling that Labour's big constitutional announcement has been found to be dead on arrival.

Just looking at the data, if I'm reading this correctly, they have produced a breakdown between the two GE options.

It essentially means that there's no change in the Tory vote between the two options.   12% of Labour and 3% vote SNP in the defacto.  4% of SNP, don't vote SNP, that goes to Labour, LDEMs and Greens (small number across all)  I guess the Green voters are assuming they would count as Indy votes and so don't need to vote SNP.   Alba got less than 1% and so don't trouble the scorers. 

There is still as many pro-Indy Labour voters that need to won over though to the idea of a defacto ref - 26% of their UKGE vote would vote Yes (DK excluded).

More detail on Indy.  Every region has a pro-Indy majority, Glasgow has the biggest lead 60/40.

The age profile is very interesting.  We know that as you get older this tails off.  However for 55 and above, the numbers are 46% Yes, 54% No.  The Yes numbers in that group have generally been 40% and below.
 

[hampden_loon2878]

27 minutes ago, aaid said:

I'm starting to get the feeling that Labour's big constitutional announcement has been found to be dead on arrival.

Just looking at the data, if I'm reading this correctly, they have produced a breakdown between the two GE options.

It essentially means that there's no change in the Tory vote between the two options.   12% of Labour and 3% vote SNP in the defacto.  4% of SNP, don't vote SNP, that goes to Labour, LDEMs and Greens (small number across all)  I guess the Green voters are assuming they would count as Indy votes and so don't need to vote SNP.   Alba got less than 1% and so don't trouble the scorers. 

There is still as many pro-Indy Labour voters that need to won over though to the idea of a defacto ref - 26% of their UKGE vote would vote Yes (DK excluded).

More detail on Indy.  Every region has a pro-Indy majority, Glasgow has the biggest lead 60/40.

The age profile is very interesting.  We know that as you get older this tails off.  However for 55 and above, the numbers are 46% Yes, 54% No.  The Yes numbers in that group have generally been 40% and below.
 

Big mistake labour made with the “new powers” it will have scared the staunch unionists back to the tories 

[mcguffin]

2 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Listened to that in the car. An excellent discussion. Bit disappointing that the Greens have a policy of not sharing a platform with Alba.

Yes, I was disappointed with that (and Lesley and Pat didn't exactly sound that impressed in the podcast).  I'm half hoping  the Greens will quietly relent on that policy, even if temporarily, until after IndyRef2/DeFactoRef1. (Vigorous debate, and even hostilities between individual politicians and parties, can resume in a newly Independent Scotland of course 👍 In fact, I look forward to that day).