Indyref 2 (2)

[hampden_loon2878]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Look deeper though and I'd say we need to know what the political favours were of the two independents. Were they pro-independence? I'd suggest maybe so and that is what nibbled at the SNP support. It is too much of a coincidence that the Tory vote share loss near enough matches the Labour gain so would say Tory unionist voters jumped ship to unionist Labour.

100%!but the snp voters aren’t turning out or are protest voting for a independent or alba/green.. there will be a host of central belt MP’s worried at the moment. Northeast will be a wipe out for the snp, Sutherland will likely stay libs.. really,really need to hold the western isles. The strategic position of it makes it massively important as if the snp lose it we will hear the same shite about them going independent like the orkneys and Shetland 

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

100%!but the snp voters aren’t turning out or are protest voting for a independent or alba/green.. there will be a host of central belt MP’s worried at the moment. Northeast will be a wipe out for the snp, Sutherland will likely stay libs.. really,really need to hold the western isles. The strategic position of it makes it massively important as if the snp lose it we will hear the same shite about them going independent like the orkneys and Shetland 

For me more needs to be made NOW by all pro-independence parties and political figures. A line should be drawn in the sand now.

Everyone should be pointing out that if you really want independence you should no longer be voting for the unionist parties as they are automatically counted as a vote for the union by Westminster. Okay if you do not want to vote for any of the pro-independence parties then do not vote at all - it better than a vote for the union. A political war in the union needs to be called and it should be hammered home NOW that whatever the election be it a General, Scottish or by-election and you want independence you must vote for a pro-independence party or boycott the election.

[scotlad]

On 11/30/2022 at 11:50 PM, AlfieMoon said:

Don’t quite know how to square WM voting intention with potential de facto indyref.  The pollster and the electorate are certainly not working on those terms.  
 

In terms of the indy question poll showing increase support for Yes - I fully expect that this is just a short term knee jerk response to the Supreme Court ruling. Folk will have forgotten about it in a month and support will drop back to previous level. 

Yet according to some people, no one is talking about the Supreme Court judgement anymore and they've all moved on.  Both can't be true.

[Orraloon]

14 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

The tories are basically destroying any chance they have of getting back in with this energy hikes and cost of living crisis. I dont understand why they want to destroy their chances of retaining power. I know they are greedy fucks but surely they understand that they are basically handing the country over to labour. Whats in it for them is what i want to know? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63835091

The words "sinking ships" and "rats" spring to mind.

[PapofGlencoe]

5 hours ago, Alibi said:

It's under these rules that the Tories are blocking indyref2 on the back of their, what it it, 40% vote share?  The can only do that because they have a majority under the rules for WM elections, but they still impose a block on indyref2 on the basis of the number of MPs it gives them.  Sauce for the goose etc. Yet we are now expected to get a majority of the votes (or is it the entire electorate including non-voters now?), just to be allowed to ask for a section 30 order.

we can't take Scotland out of the UK without the majority will of the people.  It would be a disgrace to do so even if it could be done (it can't).

[PapofGlencoe]

that broxburn result demonstrates the flaw of Sturgeon's gambit unless a united Yes party or all individual parties are counted towards Yes.  Indy is more popular than the SNP...I'd wager substantially so.  

 

[PapofGlencoe]

i have recently read a few Wings of Scotland articles after a long hiatus.  I'm becoming convinced he may be working for the UK state.

At a time when we should be aiming all the ire at Westminster and bringing the yes side together for the vote to come, he's going after the SNP like they don't already have enough detractors.  Even if you don't agree with the route, the route is there and achievable.  Needs all hands on deck.

divide and conquer.

Edited December 2, 2022 by PapofGlencoe

[aaid]

21 minutes ago, PapofGlencoe said:

that broxburn result demonstrates the flaw of Sturgeon's gambit unless a united Yes party or all individual parties are counted towards Yes.  Indy is more popular than the SNP...I'd wager substantially so.  

 

I wouldn’t read anything into the results of a single council by-election result unless it was one which I knew exactly what was going on locally.   I don’t see how you can draw the conclusions you’re making.  Ballot Box Scotland had previewed tye contest as “leading towards the SNP but don’t rule out Labour”.  

[Tartan_Tonna]

Sturgeon out.

Wings - Word reaches us, readers, that Nicola Sturgeon was “furious” when she joined the most recent meeting of the SNP’s Westminster group by Skype. Her rage was driven by the suggestion that the party should trigger a Holyrood election to act as a de facto independence referendum, a policy we’re reliably told is supported by a number of MPs who are too scared of being browbeaten by Sturgeon in front of their colleagues to actually speak out in favour of it.

My opinion -

Sturgeon suffering from Imposter Syndrome holding Scotland hostage within the British State. Her section 30 begging letter strategy has failed. Nicola has successfully deleted Scotland as a nation. She's now terrified of the next election after a summer of fawning at the feet of King Charles and the rest of the British establishment.

It's time our Parish Council leader follows Ian Blackford out the door and doesn't interfere with the real politicians in the gothic cesspit as they choose the next leader of SNP London HQ. 

She needs to leave so Scotland can be Independent. She has been a disaster for the SNP. A shoogly peg, let me hand you your jacket Nicola and see you out the door. 8 years of stagnation and malaise. 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[Tartan_Tonna]

Nicola Sturgeon, parish council leader must not interfere with due process to elect leader of SNP Headquarters London. 

Thanks to Nicola's section 30 begging letter, 8 years of no progress and delay the Scottish Parliament has no authority to pass any bill or any law without the permission of Tories we didn't vote for in London.

Nicola Sturgeon: Deleter of Scotland as a nation. Her handlers in Mi5 will dispose of her soon. She feels British after all but she'll never be one of them.

Independence is a fight for our rights. It's a fight of liberty now. We need someone up for the fight. It's not Nicola she's made that patently clear.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[PapofGlencoe]

10 hours ago, aaid said:

I wouldn’t read anything into the results of a single council by-election result unless it was one which I knew exactly what was going on locally.   I don’t see how you can draw the conclusions you’re making.  Ballot Box Scotland had previewed tye contest as “leading towards the SNP but don’t rule out Labour”.  

Labour have gone up, SNP have gone down.

Indy has gone up, SNP has gone down.

Pinning a non-partisan issue on a political party is a massive gamble. It is a flaw, disadvantage or at least something to mitigate with an actual plan to appeal to a broader base.

How many people did you meet saying, writing Indy isn't about the SNP in 2014.. a great many I presume.  And for good reason.

[PapofGlencoe]

5 hours ago, Tartan_Tonna said:

Sturgeon out.

Wings - Word reaches us, readers, that Nicola Sturgeon was “furious” when she joined the most recent meeting of the SNP’s Westminster group by Skype. Her rage was driven by the suggestion that the party should trigger a Holyrood election to act as a de facto independence referendum, a policy we’re reliably told is supported by a number of MPs who are too scared of being browbeaten by Sturgeon in front of their colleagues to actually speak out in favour of it.

My opinion -

Sturgeon suffering from Imposter Syndrome holding Scotland hostage within the British State. Her section 30 begging letter strategy has failed. Nicola has successfully deleted Scotland as a nation. She's now terrified of the next election after a summer of fawning at the feet of King Charles and the rest of the British establishment.

It's time our Parish Council leader follows Ian Blackford out the door and doesn't interfere with the real politicians in the gothic cesspit as they choose the next leader of SNP London HQ. 

She needs to leave so Scotland can be Independent. She has been a disaster for the SNP. A shoogly peg, let me hand you your jacket Nicola and see you out the door. 8 years of stagnation and malaise. 

 

2 years til a vote of reckoning.  If there's anyone being played here it's you.  

The state fear a resurgent SNP seeking 50% plus.  The detractors are doing their job.

[hampden_loon2878]

12 hours ago, PapofGlencoe said:

i have recently read a few Wings of Scotland articles after a long hiatus.  I'm becoming convinced he may be working for the UK state.

At a time when we should be aiming all the ire at Westminster and bringing the yes side together for the vote to come, he's going after the SNP like they don't already have enough detractors.  Even if you don't agree with the route, the route is there and achievable.  Needs all hands on deck.

divide and conquer.

Think your looking in the wrong place.

[Caledonian Craig]

23 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Think your looking in the wrong place.

Agreed. Wings gives nothing to the fight for independence. 👍

[hampden_loon2878]

23 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Agreed. Wings gives nothing to the fight for independence. 👍

He did in 2014, it could be argued he was the main counter to the biased MSM 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

He did in 2014, it could be argued he was the main counter to the biased MSM 

Whereas now he is a bitter tosser with an axe to grind.

[Tartan_Tonna]

Sovereign Scots should join Liberation.scot and Salvo.scot and sign the proclamation

Form the official national liberation movement. 100,000 signatures to be sent to the United Nations decolonisation committee

The nation of Scotland has enshrined in its constitution, from the Declaration of the Clergy of 1310 and the Declaration of Arbroath of 1320, to the Claim of Right Act of 1689, the supremacy of the Scottish people over all other authorities of state. From which it is clear that the English principle of parliamentary sovereignty, is foreign, irreconcilable and unlawful in Scotland.

Echoing the proclamation of Irish Independence 1916:

We call on all Scots to join us in urgently recalling the Convention of the Estates, through a modern, Scottish National Congress, to defend and assert our rights and to end the abuses of a foreign government that now threatens our lives and very existence as a nation.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[Tartan_Tonna]

Craig Murray: "Inherent in the judgment of the Supreme Court is the proposition, incredibly advanced by Scotland’s Lord Advocate, that Scotland effectively ceased to exist as a nation in 1707 and the Scottish legal principle of the sovereignty of the people was completely replaced by the English legal principle of the sovereignty of the Crown in parliament. Thus Scotland has no authority, power or recourse, in any situation, beyond what is handed down to it by Westminster."

What does this mean?

It means the political and legal avenues to Independence are now shut off. She's been ignored for 8 years. Doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. Sturgeon's killing Independence. 2 more yeaars to stimie the cause in the recession to damage SNP votes. Sturgeon's abysmal governance of the public sector in Scotland woeful. Her strategy incoherent.

Scotland United. Cross Party is now the path forward for Independence. We must exhaust all political avenues open to us.

We are now a liberation movement.

We need Tories that vote Independence. Alba. Greens. SNP those apolitical that can't vote for Sturgeon. Everyone together under one banner now. 

Starting by collapsing Holyrood. 16/17 year olds voting as soon as possible on Independence.

The plebiscite is the declaration of Independence. It's not a plebiscite to declare another plebiscite - Sturgeon's strategy.   

The SNP need to replace Sturgeon with someone who believes in winning. Get rid of Sturgeon. Let Scotland move forward. 

The liberation movement needs someone to lead it. Sturgeon's not lead the Independence movement in 8 years. She's never been to an all under one banner rally like the Stop Brexit rallies. She doesn't reach out to the wider yes movement. She never talks about Independence. All sturgeon does is put herself on TV - Covid press briefings, and selfies with beurocrats from abroad - I suspect she's given them all a wind turbine for free.

Sturgeon OUT. GET HER OUT.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[Hertsscot]

16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Whereas now he is a bitter tosser with an axe to grind.

I used to read, post, even chipped in with a few quid but the site became more SNP/Sturgeon bashing than supporting the case for Indy. However at best he did refute the rubbish spouted by the mainstream media and by Unionist politicians and given the amount of rubbish that was very valuable.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Hertsscot said:

I used to read, post, even chipped in with a few quid but the site became more SNP/Sturgeon bashing than supporting the case for Indy. However at best he did refute the rubbish spouted by the mainstream media and by Unionist politicians and given the amount of rubbish that was very valuable.

Oh I agree about that in 2014 no doubt but now he is just like a sad parody of himself.

[Hertsscot]

5 minutes ago, Tartan_Tonna said:

Craig Murray: "Inherent in the judgment of the Supreme Court is the proposition, incredibly advanced by Scotland’s Lord Advocate, that Scotland effectively ceased to exist as a nation in 1707 and the Scottish legal principle of the sovereignty of the people was completely replaced by the English legal principle of the sovereignty of the Crown in parliament. Thus Scotland has no authority, power or recourse, in any situation, beyond what is handed down to it by Westminster."

What does this mean?

It means the political and legal avenues to Independence are now shut off. She's been ignored for 8 years. Doing the same thing over again will kill Independence, people will lose the cause stimied the recession will damage SNP votes. Sturgeon's abysmal governance of the public sector in Scotland woeful.

Scotland United. Cross Party is now the path forward for Independence. We must exhaust all political avenues open to us.

We are now a liberation movement.

We need Tories that vote Independence. Alba. Greens. SNP those apolitical that can't vote for Sturgeon. Everyone together under one banner now. 

Starting by collapsing Holyrood. 16/17 year olds voting as soon as possible on Independence.

The plebiscite is the declaration of Independence. It's not a plebiscite to declare another plebiscite - Sturgeon's strategy.   

The SNP need to replace Sturgeon with someone who believes in winning. Get rid of Sturgeon. Let Scotland move forward. 

The liberation movement needs someone to lead it. Sturgeon's not lead the Independence movement in 8 years. She's never been to an all under one banner rally like the Stop Brexit rallies. She doesn't reach out to the wider yes movement. She never talks about Independence. All sturgeon does is put herself on TV - Covid press briefings, and selfies with beurocrats from abroad - I suspect she's given them all a wind turbine for free.

Sturgeon OUT. GET HER OUT.

 

 

Sturgeon is a strange one. How will history remember her, the woman who delivered Scottish independence and a better future, or the woman who talked but did nothing and kept Scotland shackled to a failing state?

[Tartan_Tonna]

4 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Sturgeon is a strange one. How will history remember her, the woman who delivered Scottish independence and a better future, or the woman who talked but did nothing and kept Scotland shackled to a failing state?

Sturgeon has "time on her side" she claims. Independence must wait because "she's got time on he side."

Does she feck. She is the problem.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, Hertsscot said:

Sturgeon is a strange one. How will history remember her, the woman who delivered Scottish independence and a better future, or the woman who talked but did nothing and kept Scotland shackled to a failing state?

Eh?

Can you please tell me what you expect Sturgeon or her successor or predecessors to do that they haven't to obtain independence?

The recent Supreme Court ruling emphasises how it is impossible to break the shackles. The only way known is for Westminster to grant a Section 30 which Sturgeon has asked for on multiple occasions now and been turned down.

The only other way is to just declare independence without 50% support for it which would make Scotland an international pariah state unrecognised as an independent country in the worldwide community so that is a no goer.

So lets hear your solution.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[Tartan_Tonna]

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,nicola-sturgeon-ready-to-play-waiting-game-with-downing-street-over-indyref2

“I’ve got democracy on my side … if they think it’s about playing a waiting game, I’ve probably got time on my side as well. You look at the demographics of the support for independence – well, I’m not sure that’s going to get you out of this conundrum.”

Time's up Nicola. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[Tartan_Tonna]

11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Eh?

Can you please tell me what you expect Sturgeon or her successor or predecessors to do that they haven't to obtain independence?

 

Actually start an Independence campaign. Actually lead a campaign. Actually bring together a movement of people across the political spectrum. Actually work on a coherent strategy and plan. She's not done anything to advance the cause. She's produced nothing.

She doesn't speak about Independence. All she says is she's slighty better at doing things than the world's lowest barometer - Westminister. And yet, we are still in there. Sturgeon lacks the political will. 

SNP conference was empty in Aberdeen. Scottish Government has produced no blueprint for Independence for people to vote for. Time's up for her. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna