Indyref 2 (2)

[TDYER63]

6 minutes ago, stocky said:

I believe the election will be September.

It was always going to be after the Euros.

England have a great chance of winning it and don't underestimate the boost it would give to the sitting government ( and perversely to the SNP) 

if England don't win the Tories will lose huge, if they do win they will  lose but not by as much.

however this is only my opinion 

 

So perhaps as independence supporters we should hope England win the Euros 🤔🤔🤔

To hell with England winning the Euros, just think the boost to independence when Scotland win it 💪  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 I might even buy the new jersey 😊

[TDYER63]

I know its been said a million times but we really do have a right downer on ourselves as a country. I was at the dentist yesterday and the dentist and her assistant were talking about St Patricks day as there was something on the radio about it . The assistant then said ‘ I think Scotland were playing Ireland at rugby at the weekend’. The dentist said ‘ what was the score’ . The assistant said ‘ I don’t know but we probably lost’. 
They both clearly knew nothing about rugby but the automatic assumption was that we would lose. It’s a small thing but absolutely reflects the whole Scottish attitude. 

I know we did get beat but thats not the point ! 😆

[Ally Bongo]

I remember when this made the mainstream news and was discussed at length on Politics Live and Newsnight ...

 

[vanderark14]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

To hell with England winning the Euros, just think the boost to independence when Scotland win it 💪  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 I might even buy the new jersey 😊

Think of the boost to scottish patriotism if get passed the groups.

[vanderark14]

31 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

I remember when this made the mainstream news and was discussed at length on Politics Live and Newsnight ...

 

Every party wants their opposition to lose all of their seats but when the snp say it......its deemed horrific, disgusting, horrible 😆 

All of that from a party who accepts 10m in donations from a racist cunt...and then gives the same person government contracts. 

Fuck this tory party 😆 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

 

An independent Scotland is NOT going to be a constant one party state . 

For  sure. The SNP will splinter into a couple of different parties I think and obviously they will need to take a whole new look at who they want to appeal to politically. The former unionist parties would then have a new choice to either embrace independence and set its sights on improving an independent Scotland or fight for re-unification.

Edited March 19 by Caledonian Craig

[Hertsscot]

46 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

For  sure. The SNP will splinter into a couple of different parties I think and obviously they will need to take a whole new look at who they want to appeal to politically. The former unionist parties would then have a new choice to either embrace independence and set its sights on improving an independent Scotland or fight for re-unification.

Might even be a multitude of parties under PR with coalition governments being the norm a la Scandinavia. People with different views having to work together for the common good, may not be the worst thing.

[the_highlandcow22]

On 3/7/2024 at 9:28 AM, hampden_loon2878 said:

Some straight questions need to be asked within the snp,, how much seats will the snp/green alliance preserve or gain compared with going back to the historical snp stand point on oil and gas/carbon capture policies??? The snp have a chance to clear up the northeast/north with changing stance, the greens alliance will have zero bearing any seat.. 

I personally think The SNP/Green party will only bring good things to scotland i mean how good has the rugby and football teams been since there takeover? i dont think thats a coincidence. 

[the_highlandcow22]

On 2/5/2024 at 3:44 PM, hampden_loon2878 said:

Forbes is the only snp politician i can see who will recapture the center ground 

i agree but who are we getting for the wings? che adams would do a job up the right wing.

[the_highlandcow22]

On 8/10/2023 at 12:51 AM, hampden_loon2878 said:

time for us true snp members to take a stand before it really is too late

a real snp member would support which ever leader is in charge even steve clarke!!!

[the_highlandcow22]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:55 AM, hampden_loon2878 said:

Everyone’s fed up of yer pish aaid,,, no one takes yer crap seriously,,, you and your kine have fucked it for independence 

i think your bang out of order here your from a small incest town near fraserburgh you have no right to say that to an innocent person

[vanderark14]

Great, rolling hills is back

[DoonTheSlope]

10 hours ago, Alibi said:

And the hate crime law coming in on 1st April is going to be another clusterfuck. 

Without free speech we aren’t free at all

[Toepoke]

23 hours ago, scotlad said:

This poll isn't clear why he's unpopular (it might be because people think he's a creep or it might be something else) but unpopular he is:

https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/scottish-independence-referendum-westminster-voting-intention-10-11-march-2024/

I can't remember Sturgeon or pre-trial Salmond ever polling so poorly. It's alarming too that Anas Sarwar - a man with the charisma of a wardrobe - is marginally ahead of him in preferences for next FM.

I can remember when Iain Gray was bookies favourite to be the next First Minister. Long way to go til the next election.

 

 

[scotlad]

17 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

I honestly don't get why he is so unpopular. I understand why sunak isn't popular but not sure where the dislike of humza comes from

I'll tell you what doesn't help scotland. The in fighting with independence supporters. Cunts like yhe guy from.l wings had the knives out for the snp at every opportunity. That will never help the cause

I'm speculating, but these are my thoughts about why he is unpopular:

1) He's a career politician. As far as I know he has never had any kind of full-time job outside politics. That doesn't make him a bad person, of course, and neither should it prevent him from being an effective FM, but people are at best ambivalent about politicians generally, so to try and relate to someone who has done nothing else might be difficult for some people.

2) He's hapless. He isn't unique in that respect, but his record as a minister is littered with gaffes, fuck-ups and minor disasters, hence the unkind 'Humza Useless' nickname. Many of those fuck-ups probably weren't his fault but unfortunately mud sticks.

Despite his haplessness and lack of professional experience outside politics, though, he has never had difficulty finding a job in government. I don't think he had even been an MSP for very long before he was made a junior minister. This gives the impression that he's someone who has "failed upwards". 

3) He bears grudges. We all remember his rant in HR about there being too many white people in positions of power in Scotland. I don't think that makes him a racist as such, but taken in isolation it isn't likely to endear him to the c.95% of the population who are themselves white, the vast majority of whom are no closer to attaining those positions of power than anyone else. He made the statement when he was Justice Secretary - one of the most powerful positions in the country - again, a position the overwhelming majority of Scots, regardless of ethnicity, are no closer to reaching than I am to starting up front for Scotland against Germany in the summer.

Have you ever heard of a powerful politician suing a nursery before? On a human level, based on what I know about the incident, I don't blame him. He takes a lot of crap from absolute roasters on account of his ethnicity, which no reasonable person would condone, but sometimes you need to learn to recognise when you've won, which I don't think he can. Which leads us to...

4) The Hate Crime Bill. This may or may not turn out to be a whole load of nothing, enforced even less strongly that the OBFA (as any wee team fans who had the pleasure of hosting the ugly sisters and their "cultural songs of freedom" during its lifetime can attest). It is also true that the bill was voted through with cross-party support. But no one like being told what to say, especially by governments and especially in their own homes, and as its architect he's going to have to take ownership of a piece of legislation that's silly at best, authoritarian at worst.

I agree about the infighting amongst independence supporters. One of the movement's greatest strengths in the years preceding the referendum and immediately afterwards was its unity. Either by accident or design (I suspect the latter) this has now vanished. 

13 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

The problem for the SNP IMO is there is not one, well rounded MP or MSP , that can lead the party. 
I dont think Humza has the competency to be FM, I think Stephen Flynn speaks very well but can be a bit too arrogant at times. That doesn’t bother me but it could bother others. I think Kate Forbes probably has the competency but there is something about her delivery that could grate with people. 

These problems dont stop politicians at WM getting selected, in a constant 2 horse race the bar doesn’t need to be set that high, and they do not have a small matter of independence clouding judgement . 

The time it is taking for the police investigation is an utter joke. Must be coming up for 3 years now. There is no good outcome. The SNP will either be slaughtered or there will not be enough evidence which leaves a lingering smell, even if they are cleared the focus will be put on the cost of the investigation to the electorate. 

There are no obvious stand-out candidates to replace him, that's the trouble. Either Forbes or Flynn would be better, in my view, but I agree that both have their weaknesses. I wonder if Flynn as party leader and Forbes as FM would work.  🤔

I am not a police detective so I am not sure how long these operations take but unless someone is charged with something soon, and something serious at that, it's hard not to conclude that the thing has been staged.

[StirlingEgg]

9 hours ago, scotlad said:

I'm speculating, but these are my thoughts about why he is unpopular:

1) He's a career politician. As far as I know he has never had any kind of full-time job outside politics. That doesn't make him a bad person, of course, and neither should it prevent him from being an effective FM, but people are at best ambivalent about politicians generally, so to try and relate to someone who has done nothing else might be difficult for some people.

2) He's hapless. He isn't unique in that respect, but his record as a minister is littered with gaffes, fuck-ups and minor disasters, hence the unkind 'Humza Useless' nickname. Many of those fuck-ups probably weren't his fault but unfortunately mud sticks.

Despite his haplessness and lack of professional experience outside politics, though, he has never had difficulty finding a job in government. I don't think he had even been an MSP for very long before he was made a junior minister. This gives the impression that he's someone who has "failed upwards". 

3) He bears grudges. We all remember his rant in HR about there being too many white people in positions of power in Scotland. I don't think that makes him a racist as such, but taken in isolation it isn't likely to endear him to the c.95% of the population who are themselves white, the vast majority of whom are no closer to attaining those positions of power than anyone else. He made the statement when he was Justice Secretary - one of the most powerful positions in the country - again, a position the overwhelming majority of Scots, regardless of ethnicity, are no closer to reaching than I am to starting up front for Scotland against Germany in the summer.

Have you ever heard of a powerful politician suing a nursery before? On a human level, based on what I know about the incident, I don't blame him. He takes a lot of crap from absolute roasters on account of his ethnicity, which no reasonable person would condone, but sometimes you need to learn to recognise when you've won, which I don't think he can. Which leads us to...

4) The Hate Crime Bill. This may or may not turn out to be a whole load of nothing, enforced even less strongly that the OBFA (as any wee team fans who had the pleasure of hosting the ugly sisters and their "cultural songs of freedom" during its lifetime can attest). It is also true that the bill was voted through with cross-party support. But no one like being told what to say, especially by governments and especially in their own homes, and as its architect he's going to have to take ownership of a piece of legislation that's silly at best, authoritarian at worst.

I agree about the infighting amongst independence supporters. One of the movement's greatest strengths in the years preceding the referendum and immediately afterwards was its unity. Either by accident or design (I suspect the latter) this has now vanished. 

There are no obvious stand-out candidates to replace him, that's the trouble. Either Forbes or Flynn would be better, in my view, but I agree that both have their weaknesses. I wonder if Flynn as party leader and Forbes as FM would work.  🤔

I am not a police detective so I am not sure how long these operations take but unless someone is charged with something soon, and something serious at that, it's hard not to conclude that the thing has been staged.

As a wee aside, my other half was at the station at the weekend when 4 drunken Rangers fans were asked to stop smoking and then told to leave after being a bit nippy about being challenged. At the end one was shouting "aye SNP police, Sturgeon's police!" (to the British Transport Police). If the outcome does turn out to be a big anticlimax then the usual suspects will just claim she's protected 🙄

[scotlad]

1 minute ago, StirlingEgg said:

As a wee aside, my other half was at the station at the weekend when 4 drunken Rangers fans were asked to stop smoking and then told to leave after being a bit nippy about being challenged. At the end one was shouting "aye SNP police, Sturgeon's police!" (to the British Transport Police). If the outcome does turn out to be a big anticlimax then the usual suspects will just claim she's protected 🙄

And if she's charged with something it'll be "see, see, ah telt ye she was dodgy!!".

I don't think the Transport Police are even part of Police Scotland, i.e. they're "reserved to WM", which is a wee bit ironic. Then again, bevied-up Rangers fans tend not to be the smartest creatures you'll meet! 😄

[StirlingEgg]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

And if she's charged with something it'll be "see, see, ah telt ye she was dodgy!!".

I don't think the Transport Police are even part of Police Scotland, i.e. they're "reserved to WM", which is a wee bit ironic. Then again, bevied-up Rangers fans tend not to be the smartest creatures you'll meet! 😄

He said the younger guy was the only one trying to calm things down & move away, "c'mon there's weans about..." 😃 Top class entertainment! 

Should have said before that all your points above are well made. I think the SNP and the FM are stuck in this 'choose your battles' awkward cycle for so many issues. Topics that may have had cross party support at the beginning eg Named Person policy and/or that may have come about from something sinister, to prevent it happening again. Some of the contentious/sensitive legislation seems to be about things that get difficult once needing written down with definitive unambiguous detail. Maybe that's because treating folk kindly and respectfully shouldn't need to be defined but I suppose you can't legislate for decency or common sense! 

[scotlad]

53 minutes ago, StirlingEgg said:

He said the younger guy was the only one trying to calm things down & move away, "c'mon there's weans about..." 😃 Top class entertainment! 

Should have said before that all your points above are well made. I think the SNP and the FM are stuck in this 'choose your battles' awkward cycle for so many issues. Topics that may have had cross party support at the beginning eg Named Person policy and/or that may have come about from something sinister, to prevent it happening again. Some of the contentious/sensitive legislation seems to be about things that get difficult once needing written down with definitive unambiguous detail. Maybe that's because treating folk kindly and respectfully shouldn't need to be defined but I suppose you can't legislate for decency or common sense! 

Thank you. 🙂

I am sure everyone would agree that people should be able to live their lives without being harassed or abused. Equally it isn't acceptable to try and manipulate others into harassing or abusing people; but laws preventing that already exist and are enforceable. Trying to police opinions, though - that's a different kettle of ballgames. An opinion on its own isn't going to hurt anyone, no matter how repulsive somebody else might find it.

I sometimes wonder if the Scottish Government go for this kind of low-hanging fruit approach to make it look like they're doing something. The bigger, more important issues in our society that need addressing are either harder to solve, and so take time, or are beyond the control of the devolved administration.  

[TDYER63]

12 hours ago, scotlad said:

I'm speculating, but these are my thoughts about why he is unpopular:

1) He's a career politician. As far as I know he has never had any kind of full-time job outside politics. That doesn't make him a bad person, of course, and neither should it prevent him from being an effective FM, but people are at best ambivalent about politicians generally, so to try and relate to someone who has done nothing else might be difficult for some people.

2) He's hapless. He isn't unique in that respect, but his record as a minister is littered with gaffes, fuck-ups and minor disasters, hence the unkind 'Humza Useless' nickname. Many of those fuck-ups probably weren't his fault but unfortunately mud sticks.

Despite his haplessness and lack of professional experience outside politics, though, he has never had difficulty finding a job in government. I don't think he had even been an MSP for very long before he was made a junior minister. This gives the impression that he's someone who has "failed upwards". 

3) He bears grudges. We all remember his rant in HR about there being too many white people in positions of power in Scotland. I don't think that makes him a racist as such, but taken in isolation it isn't likely to endear him to the c.95% of the population who are themselves white, the vast majority of whom are no closer to attaining those positions of power than anyone else. He made the statement when he was Justice Secretary - one of the most powerful positions in the country - again, a position the overwhelming majority of Scots, regardless of ethnicity, are no closer to reaching than I am to starting up front for Scotland against Germany in the summer.

Have you ever heard of a powerful politician suing a nursery before? On a human level, based on what I know about the incident, I don't blame him. He takes a lot of crap from absolute roasters on account of his ethnicity, which no reasonable person would condone, but sometimes you need to learn to recognise when you've won, which I don't think he can. Which leads us to...

4) The Hate Crime Bill. This may or may not turn out to be a whole load of nothing, enforced even less strongly that the OBFA (as any wee team fans who had the pleasure of hosting the ugly sisters and their "cultural songs of freedom" during its lifetime can attest). It is also true that the bill was voted through with cross-party support. But no one like being told what to say, especially by governments and especially in their own homes, and as its architect he's going to have to take ownership of a piece of legislation that's silly at best, authoritarian at worst.

I agree about the infighting amongst independence supporters. One of the movement's greatest strengths in the years preceding the referendum and immediately afterwards was its unity. Either by accident or design (I suspect the latter) this has now vanished. 

There are no obvious stand-out candidates to replace him, that's the trouble. Either Forbes or Flynn would be better, in my view, but I agree that both have their weaknesses. I wonder if Flynn as party leader and Forbes as FM would work.  🤔

I am not a police detective so I am not sure how long these operations take but unless someone is charged with something soon, and something serious at that, it's hard not to conclude that the thing has been staged.

On your first point, this ‘career politician’ thing sticks in ma craw a bit. What exactly is wrong with choosing politics as a career? ( i know you are not suggesting there is,  just that others might) . 

In the interview I posted he talks about there being an expectation from his parents that he would follow the typical lawyer/ accountant/ or other professions usually associated with ‘persons of colour’ , but he loved politics and had a real passion for it so took that at University. His parents ( his mum in particular ) was unhappy due to the racism he may face. He wasnt having a ‘poor me’ moan,  was just being honest. 

I have absolutely no problem with people who have a passion for politics not having any experience outwith politics. No one would expect a teacher right out of university to have had experience as a nurse or a policeman to have been a social worker. All careers are basically learned ‘on the job’ . And he has had some big jobs within government before FM, regardless of how anyone feels he performed . 
There are of course politicians who do give the term ‘ career politician’  valid criticism , but I don’t think he is one of them.

The interview is fairly interesting, it concentrates on his upbringing and family as much as politics. He does mention how being an MSP or MP does not automatically make you an expert on things. He rightly says that within that role you need to take advice from experts and make a informed decision.

It’s unlikely a transport minister will have been CEO of Abelio for example. Maybe that SHOULD be the criteria for entering politics, to only be in a post if you have had experience in that sector . But it would mean a radical change of the entire political set up and that is not going to happen anytime soon. 

Sorry that was a bit of a ramble 🙄 And despite feeling some warmth towards him I agree with all your other points.

On the FM/ party leader suggestion, that could work. Apart from them both being the best there is at the moment, it’s perhaps also better to have 2 people in high profile positions as chances are if the public doesn’t like one they might like the other. 

 

 

[PapofGlencoe]

I see this Hate Crime bill, for all it's flaws, is the new Trans diversion...

It does seem to be a load of baloney right enough judging by the BBC's report on it.  A waste of time and hot air will be expended on a policy 99.9999% of people will never interact with.  Those supposedly in favour of independence will talk about nothing else for another 6 months, job done.

 

RE Humza I don't mind the guy and think he's trying his best.  He does have a silver spoon feel about him but so do many.  I think he is a decent cabinet member, not sure about leader but he's trying his best.  He has had a few too many gaffes in office, lacks charisma and even I, who support him, first think "Useless".  That's a moniker hard to shift.  He's following in Salmond and Sturgeon's footsteps which was always a tough ask.  Fire in the disunity, SNP corruption charges and the nonsense independence strategy left to him. I think Flynn would be a better overall leader, truth be told, but we are where we are.  I also think Kate Forbes, while competent enough, would be monstered and ridiculed.  

He's holding the leadership at a difficult time.  I think he's there to take the blame and then the SNP need to renew afterwards.  Short game is looking bleak but there is life in the old dog yet, might need to wait a decade but they'll be back.

[Hertsscot]

I was  knocking on doors last Friday and delivering leaflets, got chatting to a more senior citizen. Had voted SNP and wanted independence but not keen on Humza. When I asked why she said he was trying to change our culture. Asked her why and it boiled down to alarmist headlines about SNP trying to ban porridge!  

 

[RDFH64]

8 hours ago, scotlad said:

And if she's charged with something it'll be "see, see, ah telt ye she was dodgy!!".

I don't think the Transport Police are even part of Police Scotland, i.e. they're "reserved to WM", which is a wee bit ironic. Then again, bevied-up Rangers fans tend not to be the smartest creatures you'll meet! 😄

Are the sober ones any smarter 😵‍💫

[hampden_loon2878]

On 3/19/2024 at 4:53 PM, the_highlandcow22 said:

a real snp member would support which ever leader is in charge even steve clarke!!!

aye ok aaid 

[Ally Bongo]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/economics/scotlands-extraordinary-fiscal-contribution-to-uk-economy-revealed-370677/