Energy price cap

[ger intae them]

Do you not think vat reduction is a drop in the ocean?

with the mahoosive fuel cost increases and inflation, a 5% drop in VAT is pissing in the wind to many businesses. Yes it helps, and I don’t know what’s best, but that is not the answer.

[stocky]

3 hours ago, ger intae them said:

Do you not think vat reduction is a drop in the ocean?

with the mahoosive fuel cost increases and inflation, a 5% drop in VAT is pissing in the wind to many businesses. Yes it helps, and I don’t know what’s best, but that is not the answer.

Food has no vat.

Although heating has, so that'll help a wee bit.

Vat taxes luxury not necessity, so the better off will benefit here, not the poorer.

Use the money to increase the starting level for tax to @£20000 , it's £12.500 just now, would help lower paid.

Lowered vat will not help the poorest.

Edited August 28, 2022 by stocky

[Malcolm]

13 hours ago, stocky said:

Food has no vat.

Although heating has, so that'll help a wee bit.

Vat taxes luxury not necessity, so the better off will benefit here, not the poorer.

Use the money to increase the starting level for tax to @£20000 , it's £12.500 just now, would help lower paid.

Lowered vat will not help the poorest.

i think raising tax to 20k is fair as that’s noth8ng nowadays.  Also Scottish government could at a stroke help low to middle earners by raising 41% tax to £50k or even £60k.  England can earn up to 50k at 20%, surely Nicola must come under scrutiny for this, in the given circumstances.

 

[Malcolm]

im taking matters in to my own hands and reinstating open fireplaces and wood burning stoves in main rooms.  It won’t completely resolve the problem but will mitigate it significantly.  I have a reasonable amount of space in my garden so will grow my own trees for firewood if necessary - will take 4 years or so, but plenty trees there in the meantime.

we have far bigger problems than heating our homes, with the imminent collapse of the economy.  Does everyone see what’s about to unfold?  Small businesses wiped out, care homes, wiped out.

 

 

[TDYER63]

39 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

im taking matters in to my own hands and reinstating open fireplaces and wood burning stoves in main rooms.  It won’t completely resolve the problem but will mitigate it significantly.  I have a reasonable amount of space in my garden so will grow my own trees for firewood if necessary - will take 4 years or so, but plenty trees there in the meantime.

we have far bigger problems than heating our homes, with the imminent collapse of the economy.  Does everyone see what’s about to unfold?  Small businesses wiped out, care homes, wiped out.

 

 

Its not all bad. When you have to pay off the servants  at least you will no longer have the expense of heating their quarters . Could maybe even chop up their beds and wardrobes to heat the library ….🙂

[thplinth]

So your solution is to cut down oxygen producing trees and burn them is it Malcom. FFS would it not be better just to get some coal power stations back on the go and revive the coal mining industry at least. (Oops forgot it was your mob who destroyed that entire industry out of political spite.)

When the public have stripped the public parks of every tree they will turn on the next softest target, the residential areas, the gardens with four fucking years worth of potential firewood in them. I take it you are investing in plenty of razor wire to keep the marauding hoards from stripping you clean like a cloud of locusts. They'll want your floor boards and furniture too if you have not burnt it yourself by then of course. Get one of those Fred Flintstone cars as well while you are at it.

4 years to grow enough trees to burn... dearie me. Ooooor we could simply reverse the sanctions. 

ps. You will probably need a lot of new chimney liners unless you want to chance it and burn the whole house down. I can tell you from experience they are not cheap.

Edited August 29, 2022 by thplinth

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Its not all bad. When you have to pay off the servants  at least you will no longer have the expense of heating their quarters . Could maybe even chop up their beds and wardrobes to heat the library ….🙂

😂 yes, my house once upon a time did have servants as evidenced by the butler bells that remain to this day.  Happily I live mostly on my own so only the room i am in to heat!

Edited August 29, 2022 by Malcolm

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, thplinth said:

So your solution is to cut down oxygen producing trees and burn them is it Malcom. FFS would it not be better just to get some coal power stations back on the go and revive the coal mining industry at least. (Oops forgot it was your mob who destroyed that entire industry out of political spite.)

When the public have stripped the public parks of every tree they will turn on the next softest target, the residential areas, the gardens with four fucking years worth of potential firewood in them. I take it you are investing in plenty of razor wire to keep the marauding hoards from stripping you clean like a cloud of locusts. They'll want your floor boards and furniture too if you have not burnt it yourself by then of course. Get one of those Fred Flintstone cars as well while you are at it.

4 years to grow enough trees to burn... dearie me. Ooooor we could simply reverse the sanctions. 

ps. You will probably need a lot of new chimney liners unless you want to chance it and burn the whole house down. I can tell you from experience they are not cheap.

 

yes, I do have a plentiful supply of barbed wire in the garage, but I have been advised that it’s illegal to put that up, even on my own property!  I could get sued by any burglars hurting themselves apparently, that’s how mad the world is now.

I do love a real coal fire, but I believe that you have to use smokeless these days.   This puts some control back to me rather than the energy companies and the government.  It’s a bit like our government investing in its own supply rather than relying on Russia.

Ps, thanks for the advice on the liners.yeah, the company did say in all probability I am going to need two these, about a grand each.  At the rate things are going I will be 20k plus for energy so it’s a drop in the ocean.

 

[Malcolm]

@TDYER63
 

we are up to £7,700 now….

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-08-27/energy-bills-forecast-to-hit-7700-next-year-in-worst-price-cap-warning-yet

[Alibi]

Apparently the cheapest way to cope with the rising cost of energy bills is to go and stay in Portugal over the winter.  Turn off your water, drain the pipes, switch off the electricity at the mains and hop on a flight.  ok if you're retired or can work entirely from "home", but a bit impractical for most folk.

[TDYER63]

14 hours ago, Malcolm said:

@TDYER63
 

we are up to £7,700 now….

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-08-27/energy-bills-forecast-to-hit-7700-next-year-in-worst-price-cap-warning-yet

Still no panicking but I may have to start considering cash out options if this goes much higher! How about running round my village scantily clothed at £9k??

Seriously though,  even with these large price increases, how can the AVERAGE annual bill be over £600 a month. Is anyone here ( apart from you Malcolm) paying even close to that at the moment? People would be paying this even in the summer months. There must still be people on fixed rates as well. 
 

 

[vanderark14]

2 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Still no panicking but I may have to start considering cash out options if this goes much higher! How about running round my village scantily clothed at £9k??

Seriously though,  even with these large price increases, how can the AVERAGE annual bill be over £600 a month. Is anyone here ( apart from you Malcolm) paying even close to that at the moment? People would be paying this even in the summer months. There must still be people on fixed rates as well. 
 

 

My energy company went bust and I was put over to British gas. I got my first quarterly bill from them last week and I was genuinely surprised at how low it was, the bill was higher than usual obviously but not as bad as the media hype.

We will cut back on heating usage this winter to try and counter the price hike. I live in the south of England so I won't need to cope with the low temps we used to get in Scotland

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Alibi said:

Apparently the cheapest way to cope with the rising cost of energy bills is to go and stay in Portugal over the winter.  Turn off your water, drain the pipes, switch off the electricity at the mains and hop on a flight.  ok if you're retired or can work entirely from "home", but a bit impractical for most folk.

this had crossed my mind…

 

[TDYER63]

13 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

My energy company went bust and I was put over to British gas. I got my first quarterly bill from them last week and I was genuinely surprised at how low it was, the bill was higher than usual obviously but not as bad as the media hype.

We will cut back on heating usage this winter to try and counter the price hike. I live in the south of England so I won't need to cope with the low temps we used to get in Scotland

Whilst I am genuinely concerned about how people are going to afford their heating bills, I dont think the media are helping the  situation at all by scaring people out their wits . I have 10 months  left on a fixed deal so consider myself very lucky, but even if my monthly payments were tripled i would not be anywhere close to £7700 a year. My house isnt a mansion but its not small either. Where are they getting these forecasts from ? 

As an aside, this was on the link Malcolm quoted : 

‘’ Tory MP Robert Halfon, who is supporting Rishi Sunak in the Tory leadership race, told ITV News on Saturday: "Unless you're a millionaire, most people are going to struggle with their energy bills.’’

So, to lead the country out of the shit he is supporting, errrr,  a multi millionaire who has absolutely no idea of the hardship being faced by ordinary folk. 

[Malcolm]

30 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Still no panicking but I may have to start considering cash out options if this goes much higher! How about running round my village scantily clothed at £9k??

Seriously though,  even with these large price increases, how can the AVERAGE annual bill be over £600 a month. Is anyone here ( apart from you Malcolm) paying even close to that at the moment? People would be paying this even in the summer months. There must still be people on fixed rates as well. 
 

 

basically what they are saying is that if you are paying £1900 per year now which is the average bill (before the October 80% increase), you will be paying £7,700 a year by next year, proportionally.  I am paying £4,500 a year now, so I can expect to pay around £20k next year.  
 

My situation is tricky as i have a fairly large uninsulated house with an inefficient boiler from the early 1970s, which can not be replaced easily, sited internally, flued up a chimney with an asbestos flue.  To replace it would involve ripping apart various rooms, replacing a bathroom and moving the boiler, a massive capital expense - so between a rock and a hard place just now!

 

 

[TDYER63]

3 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

basically what they are saying is that if you are paying £1900 per year now which is the average bill (before the October 80% increase), you will be paying £7,700 a year by next year, proportionally.  I am paying £4,500 a year now, so I can expect to pay around £20k next year.  
 

My situation is tricky as i have a fairly large uninsulated house with an inefficient boiler from the early 1970s, which can not be replaced easily, sited internally, flued up a chimney with an asbestos flue.  To replace it would involve ripping apart various rooms, replacing a bathroom and moving the boiler, a massive capital expense - so between a rock and a hard place just now!

 

 

You could always take in some lodgers till the crisis is over…

£7700 for most families is totally unaffordable if those prices actually do come to fruition . I could actually see families moving in with each other to keep the heating costs to one home. I am still a bit cynical though about these reported figures though. 

My house is old too and uninsulated. I was at Loch Lomond for a celebration at the weekend in a modernised cottage which was really cosy even  with no heating on . Came home yesterday and our house was freezing. Insulation must make a big difference. 

[vanderark14]

14 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

You could always take in some lodgers till the crisis is over…

£7700 for most families is totally unaffordable if those prices actually do come to fruition . I could actually see families moving in with each other to keep the heating costs to one home. I am still a bit cynical though about these reported figures though. 

My house is old too and uninsulated. I was at Loch Lomond for a celebration at the weekend in a modernised cottage which was really cosy even  with no heating on . Came home yesterday and our house was freezing. Insulation must make a big difference. 

This is where I feel I am lucky. We bought a new build two years ago, it's very modern and eco friendly, if anything it's too fucking hot 🤣

 

[Squirrelhumper]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:06 PM, Malcolm said:

 

Have the riots started yet?   I will give it until it gets cold in November.

this is a political disaster for the tories.  Ofgem laying it at the door of the government.  Labour playing a blinder by saying they would freeze it now.

boris is an utter cock and totally hopeless.  I suspect Truss will have to do some kind of freeze or be destroyed at the next election.

Truss will be a worse PM than Bojo the clown. She is that useless.

[Squirrelhumper]

On 8/29/2022 at 10:13 AM, Malcolm said:

i think raising tax to 20k is fair as that’s noth8ng nowadays.  Also Scottish government could at a stroke help low to middle earners by raising 41% tax to £50k or even £60k.  England can earn up to 50k at 20%, surely Nicola must come under scrutiny for this, in the given circumstances.

 

What percentage of the population earn more than £40k?

I'd rather they lowered taxes for lower earners, not hose who are on £40k+.

[Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Squirrelhumper said:

What percentage of the population earn more than £40k?

I'd rather they lowered taxes for lower earners, not hose who are on £40k+.

About 40% earn above 40k

[stocky]

55 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

About 40% earn above 40k

I don't believe that figure is correct in Scotland.

[wheres the pies]

Truss will be will the shortest serving prime minister ever utterly clueless I’m sure they’ll be a general election next year also 

[kumnio]

 

If the new cap is looking at £7700 as mentioned above, thats £650 a month, or £20 a day roughly. 

Using those figures, if they are correct, how do you get to £20 a day, that can't be right.

[Malcolm]

2 hours ago, kumnio said:

 

If the new cap is looking at £7700 as mentioned above, thats £650 a month, or £20 a day roughly. 

Using those figures, if they are correct, how do you get to £20 a day, that can't be right.

the figures above in your example are bAsed on unit pricing for the october cap, which average bill is around £3500.  You will be more than double that next year.

[Malcolm]

3 hours ago, stocky said:

I don't believe that figure is correct in Scotland.

To be correct, 40% of earners earn 40k, not 40% of the population