COP26

[TDYER63]

56 minutes ago, Jersey Jim said:

Disgusting language Mrs TDYER, this is a family message board, tut tut 

Och , he is a ‘national treasure’ he can say anything he wants . 

[exile]

18 hours ago, Grim Jim said:

So long as you don't include the pale grey stretch.   That's the SECC.

Yes, that figures, but shows how big the 'new' buildings are...

[Morrisandmoo]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:46 PM, aaid said:

The picture the UKG were determined wasn’t going to happen.

 

God the SNP have such a diddy team mentality these days.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Morrisandmoo said:

God the SNP have such a diddy team mentality these days.

Good to see the Scottish Cringe is alive and well with you. 

[thplinth]

2 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

God the SNP have such a diddy team mentality these days.

I doubt very much if he would have been gushing about some fawning picture of Sturgeon shaking the US president's hand if Trump had still been president. 😀

That is what is so nauseating, it is not because he is president it is because he is a democrat president. 

Says a lot that Sturgeon has Hillary Clinton as her role model, a woman whose husband did rape women and whose victims she attacked legally on his behalf to shush them up. Not so vocal about them I note. 😀 

[Morrisandmoo]

1 hour ago, aaid said:

Good to see the Scottish Cringe is alive and well with you. 

Mate it's the opposite.

The fact that so much of the output from the SNP relates to comparisons to England (when they can be spun favorably that is) or getting it up English politicians (as if they really give a fuck about Scotland) is the definition of Scottish Cringe. 

Need to get that small time mentality to fuck.

[Dave78]

3 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Mate it's the opposite.

The fact that so much of the output from the SNP relates to comparisons to England (when they can be spun favorably that is) or getting it up English politicians (as if they really give a fuck about Scotland) is the definition of Scottish Cringe. 

Need to get that small time mentality to fuck.

That's not going to change. Ireland has been independent for a century and they compare themselves to England almost as much as Scotland does. It's just a natural consequence of being 'in bed with an elephant'.

I'm sure it happens in other countries round the world with a similar dynamic. Austria and Germany, Australian and NZ etc etc...

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

Mate it's the opposite.

The fact that so much of the output from the SNP relates to comparisons to England (when they can be spun favorably that is) or getting it up English politicians (as if they really give a fuck about Scotland) is the definition of Scottish Cringe. 

Need to get that small time mentality to fuck.

 

22 minutes ago, Dave78 said:

That's not going to change. Ireland has been independent for a century and they compare themselves to England almost as much as Scotland does. It's just a natural consequence of being 'in bed with an elephant'.

I'm sure it happens in other countries round the world with a similar dynamic. Austria and Germany, Australian and NZ etc etc...

You are both right. Westminster is the SNP’s nemesis in the same way that in England, politically, Labour is the Tories nemesis and vice versa. They all highlight each others deficiencies to try and make themselves more attractive , its what politicians do. Most folk are sick of the constant sniping that goes on and would rather they focus on getting things done. 

The SNP is not just a political party with a job to run the country, it also has to convince people that we would be better off being completely independent from the UK .
It has already convinced people who detest Westminster that being independent is in our best interests, but it needs to convince those who are less offended by Westminster. These people are not interested in mud being slung they need convinced we are capable of being a success on our own, and whilst I do think the SNP try to showcase the huge potential that Scotland has , they can also be extremely petty in their dealings with Westminster and this is as likely to turn people off . 

[phart]

 

[exile]

Pics from news headlines, STV above, BBC below

Glasgow has been a great host, despite the naysayers.

Edited November 6, 2021 by exile

[aaid]

8 hours ago, Dave78 said:

That's not going to change. Ireland has been independent for a century and they compare themselves to England almost as much as Scotland does. It's just a natural consequence of being 'in bed with an elephant'.

I'm sure it happens in other countries round the world with a similar dynamic. Austria and Germany, Australian and NZ etc etc...

 

7 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

 

You are both right. Westminster is the SNP’s nemesis in the same way that in England, politically, Labour is the Tories nemesis and vice versa. They all highlight each others deficiencies to try and make themselves more attractive , its what politicians do. Most folk are sick of the constant sniping that goes on and would rather they focus on getting things done. 

The SNP is not just a political party with a job to run the country, it also has to convince people that we would be better off being completely independent from the UK .
It has already convinced people who detest Westminster that being independent is in our best interests, but it needs to convince those who are less offended by Westminster. These people are not interested in mud being slung they need convinced we are capable of being a success on our own, and whilst I do think the SNP try to showcase the huge potential that Scotland has , they can also be extremely petty in their dealings with Westminster and this is as likely to turn people off . 

There’s a much simpler explanation, he just doesn’t like Nicola Sturgeon for whatever reason and whatever she does isn’t good enough.  

File alongside 2014 No voters whose rationale was “Alex Salmond is fat”

[Morrisandmoo]

8 hours ago, aaid said:

 

There’s a much simpler explanation, he just doesn’t like Nicola Sturgeon for whatever reason and whatever she does isn’t good enough.  

File alongside 2014 No voters whose rationale was “Alex Salmond is fat”

This prompted a good old fashioned lol from me.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But don't let something like truth get in the way of convenient and simple narratives. 

It's folk like you that makes it certain that we will see another No vote at the next referendum. 

[hampden_loon2878]

8 minutes ago, Morrisandmoo said:

This prompted a good old fashioned lol from me.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But don't let something like truth get in the way of convenient and simple narratives. 

It's folk like you that makes it certain that we will see another No vote at the next referendum. 

Dont you be disagreeing with aaid she will have you hounded out, she is the oracle 

[TDYER63]

11 hours ago, aaid said:

 

There’s a much simpler explanation, he just doesn’t like Nicola Sturgeon for whatever reason and whatever she does isn’t good enough.  

File alongside 2014 No voters whose rationale was “Alex Salmond is fat”

I dont see that at all. I think his posts are fair and balanced ( cant recall a specific dislike of NS) and I get the impression he supports independence.
However criticism. is allowed. 
The only way we will get people onside is to recognise where we are failing and deal with it. Let the Tories fuck things up themselves, it will happen, even the Mail has been hammering BJ the last couple of days.  There are too many power hungry people in the Conservative party, they will eat themselves alive . 
 

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Dont you be disagreeing with aaid she will have you hounded out, she is the oracle 

That is another example of pettiness achieving absolutely nothing.  

[aaid]

12 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I dont see that at all. I think his posts are fair and balanced ( cant recall a specific dislike of NS) and I get the impression he supports independence.
However criticism. is allowed. 
The only way we will get people onside is to recognise where we are failing and deal with it. Let the Tories fuck things up themselves, it will happen, even the Mail has been hammering BJ the last couple of days.  There are too many power hungry people in the Conservative party, they will eat themselves alive . 
 

 

[TDYER63]

23 minutes ago, aaid said:

 

He thinks she is too severe with covid restrictions, I don’t agree with him on that but I doubt he is alone. Doesn’t necessarily indicate a general dislike of her. Even if he does it doesn’t make him anti independence. I am more offended by the fact he would have considered moving our games to another country  (ANY other country) when we were a host nation. 

I dont care what people feel about individuals, I am only interested in persuading people about the benefits of being independent. One person alone cannot do that, politicians are often marmite. I am more interested in keeping people’s belief alive than protecting NS from all criticism. 
I think you are really good poster , you  dismantle arguments well. But you do have a soft spot for her. 

Sorry, taking this thread off tangent a bit. 

[aaid]

4 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

I think you are really good poster , you  dismantle arguments well. But you do have a soft spot for her. 

 

If you were to go and look at my posting history, you'd find that in this context, in the vast majority of cases, I'm responding to what - IMO - are unwarranted or unsubstantiated attacks of a partisan nature.   Given that this board currently is either 100% in support of Indy, or at least any members who are opposed keep very quiet about it, those are from fellow Indy Supporters.  I can't quite see how wanting the largest pro-Indy party to be "punted" is compatible with support for Independence.  Criticism is fine but it has to be based on something tangible.  Not "She's a wrong un but I can't explain exactly why"

It shouldn't be about one single individual, it is about a movement however, if you look at any popular movement over history, there is always a leader, a spokesman, a figurehead who brings the people along with him/her.

If I have a "soft spot" for the FM, its because I see her as being the person who is currently best placed to deliver independence.   She's far from perfect, she is a bit on the over-cautious side for me, however, I'd prefer that to a reckless gambler and I don't see anyone better at the moment.

Some people can make a reasoned argument for what she should or shouldn't be doing and point out her flaws and that's fine, however, you need to take an overall view.   

For others though, she can't do right for doing wrong.

[Morrisandmoo]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

I I can't quite see how wanting the largest pro-Indy party to be "punted" is compatible with support for Independence.  Criticism is fine but it has to be based on something tangible.  Not "She's a wrong un but I can't explain exactly why"
 

I've explained this before. It's my belief that the SNP government (and the independence movement generally at present) is entrenching opposition to independence. And that a referendum in the next five years will result in a No vote close to 100% of the time. Sometimes you need to play the long game, knowing that you might win that one, when the short game is a loser. 

I disagree with vaccine passports and how football fans have been treated more generally by this Government - and have said plenty about it. I am also concerned by the social media communications coming out from the SNP on two fronts: (1) some of their use of statistics in relation to the pandemic is questionable and potentially dangerous - certainly not optimal (2) the constant snarking and cherry picked comparison's to England is uninspiring. 

But that's got fuck all to do with, and says nothing about, what i think about Nicola Sturgeon. Personally, I think she is one of the best politicians of her generation, a good person and an inspiration in general (particularly to young girls). And I've said as much to her.

It is fucking diddy team behaviour to be crowing over a picture with some old American guy (as if it matters) and lording it over English politicians (as if they care). The fact you find the need to react to that observation with finger pointing is one of the reasons why this independence movement is going nowhere. We can't get combative and defensive at the least wee thing. 

[Morrisandmoo]

The consoling point is that I've called the last two referendum's wrong...so the fact I think the next one is un-winnable has to be a good thing 🤣

[exile]

5 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

It is fucking diddy team behaviour to be crowing over a picture with some old American guy (as if it matters) and lording it over English politicians (as if they care). The fact you find the need to react to that observation with finger pointing is one of the reasons why this independence movement is going nowhere. We can't get combative and defensive at the least wee thing. 

I don't see what's wrong with commenting on this picture. On one level it's just a picture, and yes there is a touch of celebrity froth or oneupmanship about it. But the context is that the UK PM and his party apparently wanted the FM nowhere near COP26 and not to be seen hob nobbing with world leaders.  Therefore it is part of the political game of the day. You may say it's only gamesmanship but surely politics is built on it. (The Johnson miscalculation on Paterson is part of the game too) Having a good conference is surely part of showing fitness of leadership, it seems the FM has made loads of connections and if she hadn't, she'd be vulnerable to criticism of being a vacuum. 

Also the giving and receiving of diplomatic gifts is surely of note. It should not be overstated, but still it seems to signal an openness to have some sort of diplomatic relationship between USA and Scotland that seems in marked contrast to Obama meekly doing Cameron's bidding in 2014. 

And as I said before I don't think it matters who the personalities are. If it had been Sturgeon-Trump it would have been just as worthy of note.

[thplinth]

20 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

That is another example of pettiness achieving absolutely nothing.  

Wading in for your buddy again I see.  

[aaid]

This is also interesting.

Chris Coons who gave a speech on behalf of the US Delegation replaced Biden in the senate when he became VP and is very close to him,

Soft power in action, I don’t see the current POTUS weighing in on behalf of the UKG any time soon. 
 

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by aaid

[TDYER63]

3 hours ago, thplinth said:

Wading in for your buddy again I see.  

Aye, you’re right .

🙄

[chaff]

I was in Glasgow on Sunday. It was disappointingly quiet of protests and there were more police from the MET and Wales stoating about the city centre than people.

I did see around a dozen people dressed as zombies outside the MoMA though I don't know what their particular point was.

I also seen around 6 clergy folk sitting around a statue in George Square in quiet meditation, again didn't really know why.

Glasgow I got talking to two police from the Met. I asked them if stoating around a deserted glasgow is better than walking around London, one replied that it was as "people are talking to us and being friendly, no one in London speaks to us"

I also noticed that there were signs on lamp posts saying Glasgow, dear green place directly opposite piles of fuckin shit.

 p