Scottish players in action 21/22

[mccaughey85]

39 minutes ago, thesaint said:

He scored 25 in 124 games in the premier league.Trouble is he is playing in the league below now and has scored 6 from 22.Take from that what you will i suppose.

One thing to remember about Adam's is he ain't really a goalscorer and is more a second striker. Shankland is a goalscorer but I doubt he would score alot at epl level. Adams is a better player but shankland is a better goalscorer.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

He scored 25 in 124 games in the premier league.Trouble is he is playing in the league below now and has scored 6 from 22.Take from that what you will i suppose.

More than half are substitute appearances though, goals per minute would mean a goal every two games. 2 assists this season which is 2 more than Shankland.

[thesaint]

11 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

More than half are substitute appearances though, goals per minute would mean a goal every two games. 2 assists this season which is 2 more than Shankland.

Ok. If he was that good it makes you wonder why he has been a substitute in more than half their games in the championship and not a nailed on starter. Adams and Dykes will definately go. No problem with that. Just saying there has to be the option of a goalscorer in form like Shankland to get a chance. 

[csinclair]

58 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Ok. If he was that good it makes you wonder why he has been a substitute in more than half their games in the championship and not a nailed on starter. Adams and Dykes will definately go. No problem with that. Just saying there has to be the option of a goalscorer in form like Shankland to get a chance. 

Something hasn't seemed right this season with Adams. Everything seemed to point towards him leaving for an EPL club last summer and it never materialised. Now Martin isn't giving him regular minutes but whenever he does he seems to have an impact. There's rumours Wolves will come back in for him and ironically Shankland has been tipped for Southampton

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, thesaint said:

Ok. If he was that good it makes you wonder why he has been a substitute in more than half their games in the championship and not a nailed on starter. Adams and Dykes will definately go. No problem with that. Just saying there has to be the option of a goalscorer in form like Shankland to get a chance. 

Their other striker Armstrong is on fire.

[Diamond Scot]

7 hours ago, csinclair said:

Something hasn't seemed right this season with Adams. Everything seemed to point towards him leaving for an EPL club last summer and it never materialised. Now Martin isn't giving him regular minutes but whenever he does he seems to have an impact. There's rumours Wolves will come back in for him and ironically Shankland has been tipped for Southampton

Its not an unusual situation when a club get relegated and a player looks to be moving on. The manager, especially a new manager makes plans without the player so is often not included if the deal breaks down. 

Generally a manager will want to move forward with players who want to be at the club. If its suspected that Adams will mive in January theres little value in having him start in front of somebody who is going to be there after January.

[N4Footsoldier]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Its not an unusual situation when a club get relegated and a player looks to be moving on. The manager, especially a new manager makes plans without the player so is often not included if the deal breaks down. 

Generally a manager will want to move forward with players who want to be at the club. If its suspected that Adams will mive in January theres little value in having him start in front of somebody who is going to be there after January.

I struggle to see on current form what club above Championship level comes in for Adams to be honest other than possibly one of the relegation fodder teams in the EPL who will likely be back down sooner or later. But sometimes a new environment gives a player a chance to kick on and hit some form so hopefully it can work out.

[mccaughey85]

30 minutes ago, N4Footsoldier said:

I struggle to see on current form what club above Championship level comes in for Adams to be honest other than possibly one of the relegation fodder teams in the EPL who will likely be back down sooner or later. But sometimes a new environment gives a player a chance to kick on and hit some form so hopefully it can work out.

I think hes best staying at saints. Good chance they go up, they are closing the gap on Ipswich in 2nd place.

[Caledonian Craig]

In my opinion to fans a player playing in the EPL is just a ego massager for the fans. Adams is a clear example. Gums being bumped because he is in the Championship and talking of ways he can get back to the EPL. Well it is not going to make any difference to the end product which will still be Che Adams. What he has now as a player is the same talent he had when in the EPL or now that he is out of the EPL. He does not inherit bags of talent when he suddenly becomes an EPL player again (if he does).

Currently, he is one of our best attacking options we have and will be going to the Euros and whether he goes as a Championship or an EPL player really makes no difference whatsoever to his talent levels. Mental levels it may massage his ego being in the EPL but he may score less and confidence drops. All swings and roundabouts but makes no difference to his skill levels.

Edited January 6 by Caledonian Craig

[BryanBlessed]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

In my opinion to fans a player playing in the EPL is just a ego massager for the fans. Adams is a clear example. Gums being bumped because he is in the Championship and talking of ways he can get back to the EPL. Well it is not going to make any difference to the end product which will still be Che Adams. What he has now as a player is the same talent he had when in the EPL or now that he is out of the EPL. He does not inherit bags of talent when he suddenly becomes an EPL player again (if he does).

Currently, he is one of our best attacking options we have and will be going to the Euros and whether he goes as a Championship or an EPL player really makes no difference whatsoever to his talent levels. Mental levels it may massage his ego being in the EPL but he may score less and confidence drops. All swings and roundabouts but makes no difference to his skill levels.

I agree that he's one of our best attacking options but that tends to say more about our lack of attacking options. I'd have thought playing in the EPL against top defenders makes you a better player and/or keeps you sharp. I've seen a few of his goals this season and he's unlikely to get chances like that at the Euros. I'm still happy to see him scoring but as someone said above, he's not been quite right for a while. He could have some personal issues like Gilmour had.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, BryanBlessed said:

I agree that he's one of our best attacking options but that tends to say more about our lack of attacking options. I'd have thought playing in the EPL against top defenders makes you a better player and/or keeps you sharp. I've seen a few of his goals this season and he's unlikely to get chances like that at the Euros. I'm still happy to see him scoring but as someone said above, he's not been quite right for a while. He could have some personal issues like Gilmour had.

The bottom line is we do not have four better strikers than him proven and available at the moment. Like the goalkeeping department the striker department needs better/stronger and more numerous options. We have got by with what we have thanks to defence tightening up to protect the goalkeeper and midfield weighing in with the goals to take the glare/pressure off of the striking deficiences.

[BryanBlessed]

24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The bottom line is we do not have four better strikers than him proven and available at the moment. Like the goalkeeping department the striker department needs better/stronger and more numerous options. We have got by with what we have thanks to defence tightening up to protect the goalkeeper and midfield weighing in with the goals to take the glare/pressure off of the striking deficiences.

Adams had a fairly decent chance to equalise against Spain. Shankland would have score that in my opinion. That's why having a striker who can take a half chance is really important. Plus our threat is greatly reduced without Robertson and Tierney playing together and that, unfortunately, is not something we can rely on.

 

I don't think there is any dispute that Adams should be on the plane. It's about who is first/second/third choice. Realistically, the options are Shankland/Dykes/Adams/Nisbet as Ross Stewart is injured. Dykes, and his team, are having a poor season. Adams is having an OK season but isn't first choice. And it's not like either of those two have been playing well for us despite club form.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

I don't think there is any dispute that Adams should be on the plane. It's about who is first/second/third choice. Realistically, the options are Shankland/Dykes/Adams/Nisbet as Ross Stewart is injured. Dykes, and his team, are having a poor season. Adams is having an OK season but isn't first choice. And it's not like either of those two have been playing well for us despite club form.

At the end of the day our opinions won't weigh with Clarke's all of the time and I think Clarke's four in this order are Dykes, Adams, Brown and Shankland. I am pretty certain they will be the strikers on the plane and the order they will be used in Germany.

[BryanBlessed]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

At the end of the day our opinions won't weigh with Clarke's all of the time and I think Clarke's four in this order are Dykes, Adams, Brown and Shankland. I am pretty certain they will be the strikers on the plane and the order they will be used in Germany.

Yeah I forgot about Brown. That list means, barring injuries, Shankland will miss out as he counts Christie as a forward. That would be a travesty.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, BryanBlessed said:

Yeah I forgot about Brown. That list means, barring injuries, Shankland will miss out as he counts Christie as a forward. That would be a travesty.

It would be. 

I think Clarke is attracted to Brown's bit of pace. Brown helped his cause with a decent substitute appearance V France. Fans point to his miss V Norway but I'd say given same circumstances Shankland would not have had the pace to even reach that area in the box as it was a quick break. However, Shankland is clearly, in my opinion, the better finisher and he is crying out for a decent chance for us. A start or two in the upcoming friendlies are a real priority if he is to displace Brown as our No 3 striker.

[stitch]

I hate to say this, but being realistic there might be a few more options with players, if the few that are rumoured do change and want to play for us.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just saying if they did, it would put Shankland and a couple of others further down the pecking order. The next few friendlies will be when we find out. 

[Caledonian Craig]

27 minutes ago, stitch said:

I hate to say this, but being realistic there might be a few more options with players, if the few that are rumoured do change and want to play for us.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just saying if they did, it would put Shankland and a couple of others further down the pecking order. The next few friendlies will be when we find out. 

Not according to Steve Clarke.

[Tartan blood]

51 minutes ago, BryanBlessed said:

Yeah I forgot about Brown. That list means, barring injuries, Shankland will miss out as he counts Christie as a forward. That would be a travesty.

Imagine taking 3 non-scoring strikers. Plus Christie, who doesn't even play in an attacking position anymore.

I would say having a free scoring, confident striker in the squad should be an absolute must. Brown should not be ahead of Shankland simply because he plays in the EPL.

[Marky]

Notice no Ferguson in the Bologna squad last night.

Injured? Suspended?

[N4Footsoldier]

1 hour ago, BryanBlessed said:

Adams had a fairly decent chance to equalise against Spain. Shankland would have score that in my opinion. That's why having a striker who can take a half chance is really important. Plus our threat is greatly reduced without Robertson and Tierney playing together and that, unfortunately, is not something we can rely on.

 

I don't think there is any dispute that Adams should be on the plane. It's about who is first/second/third choice. Realistically, the options are Shankland/Dykes/Adams/Nisbet as Ross Stewart is injured. Dykes, and his team, are having a poor season. Adams is having an OK season but isn't first choice. And it's not like either of those two have been playing well for us despite club form.

My constant gripe with Adams is his lack of finishing. I know it's not the role of our strikers primarily to score goals, but I can think of quite a few guilt-edged chances missed where he should have found the back of the net.

If we look at the teams he has scored against (Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, Moldova, Armenia) - fair enough he scored v Denmark but even that was a 1 on 1 with the keeper, you could easily argue he won't be able to make the difference for us against top teams (who are more clinical that us), when against better defences, goalkeepers and with fewer chances.

I do think Adams on form has a better all round game than Dykes, and allows us to play more expansively using his pace and mobility to get the ball into his feet in good areas rather than route one which seems like the Plan A Dykes solution.

At the end of the day we know our limitations in this position.

[stitch]

45 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Not according to Steve Clarke.

We all know SC is saying one thing but Carver is saying the opposite. 

I don't think SC will care what people say if he does pick any of the none Scots and drops squad players. We might have a moan but if they do well at the euros then nobody will care.

[Caledonian Craig]

36 minutes ago, stitch said:

We all know SC is saying one thing but Carver is saying the opposite. 

I don't think SC will care what people say if he does pick any of the none Scots and drops squad players. We might have a moan but if they do well at the euros then nobody will care.

We have had one major embarrassment/kick in the teeth already from Elliot Anderson and he had actually played for us in lower levels so hardly sees his mates going against his decision and opting to play for us that being if they really have any interest whatsoever in doing so.

We have a major tournament coming up so sooner we were concentrating on getting ourselves 100% prepared with players dedicated to representing us.

[BryanBlessed]

2 hours ago, stitch said:

I hate to say this, but being realistic there might be a few more options with players, if the few that are rumoured do change and want to play for us.

I'm not saying I agree with it, just saying if they did, it would put Shankland and a couple of others further down the pecking order. The next few friendlies will be when we find out. 

I don't want them. I didn't even want Adams to be honest but I can't really complain about his commitment since he joined. The granny rule is ridiculous and can include a grandparent born in Scotland to English parents I think. It should be one parent at least, or someone who's grown up in Scotland, and even then I want them to commit early on in their career.

[JECK]

1 hour ago, Marky said:

Notice no Ferguson in the Bologna squad last night.

Injured? Suspended?

Suspended I think

[BryanBlessed]

 

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Imagine taking 3 non-scoring strikers. Plus Christie, who doesn't even play in an attacking position anymore.

I would say having a free scoring, confident striker in the squad should be an absolute must. Brown should not be ahead of Shankland simply because he plays in the EPL.

I saw Brown in Lille and I was quite impressed with him but he hasn't really done anything of note.

 

If Shankland had his stats for Rangers or Celtic then I'd be less impressed but he's playing for a team in third and that team is only in third because of him. That, and his finishing, is what impresses me the most. We just need to make sure he isn't our penalty taker!