Wales

[gkm_vancouver]

55 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Thats a bit unfair on the Turkish team. 

 

Did you see the way they reacted when a welsh defender was lying on the ground? He came up and gave him a little slap on the chin - deliberate provocation.

[The Black Bra]

3 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Did you see the way they reacted when a welsh defender was lying on the ground? He came up and gave him a little slap on the chin - deliberate provocation.

To be fair, the Welsh were guilty of time-wasting. The ref had already spoken to their keeper about it.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, The Black Bra said:

To be fair, the Welsh were guilty of time-wasting. The ref had already spoken to their keeper about it.

Every team indulges in timewasting not every team indulges in slapping players.

[ThistleWhistle]

It's probably down to spite and jealousy but they do my fucking head in to be honest.  If this was the first international tournament you'd watched you'd think these were one of the mainstays of European football rather than just a small nation whose currently getting their turn in the cycle of having a couple of decent players.  

[vanderark14]

4 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

It's probably down to spite and jealousy but they do my fucking head in to be honest.  If this was the first international tournament you'd watched you'd think these were one of the mainstays of European football rather than just a small nation whose currently getting their turn in the cycle of having a couple of decent players.  

my thoughts too, I have an irrational hatred of Wales and Bale in particular. 😂

[ProudScot]

4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I agree.

The way I see tomorrow night is that same old same old ain't getting us a result. I'd much rather see Clarke throw in Patterson, Gilmour and give Turnbull a go at some point. There is still a good chance we will lose but we will learn a heck of a lot about the youngsters playing in a pressure match.

Agree on this. 

It would be very refreshing if he picked a 541 come 3411 with proper full backs in Patterson & Robertson and tried to contain England and counter with Gilmour in midfield and Che Adams uptop 

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Did you see the way they reacted when a welsh defender was lying on the ground? He came up and gave him a little slap on the chin - deliberate provocation.

I probably watched the game game through different glasses as I had a bet on 4 or more bookings in the match, there wasn't any in 90 minutes and I never once thought there should have been.

[ceudmilefailte]

58 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

my thoughts too, I have an irrational hatred of Wales and Bale in particular. 😂

Nothing irrational about it considering his record against us.

[gkm_vancouver]

1 hour ago, The Black Bra said:

To be fair, the Welsh were guilty of time-wasting. The ref had already spoken to their keeper about it.

And their keeper was threatened with a yellow card for timewasting.

If - in our wildest dreams - that ever happened to us and Marshall/Gordon lay on the ball a few seconds longer protecting a lead just as 2nd half wore on. Would you be happy if Declan Rice or Modric went up to him and started slapping him or confronting/provoking him and they were well within their rights to do so or would you rather we kicked the ball up the park as soon as they could  and risk the possibility of the ball coming right back at them??

Wasting a few seconds does not give the right for the opposition to employ dirty tactics that we all know has spoiled the game and a particularly a number of World Cups over the years.

[thplinth]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

It's probably down to spite and jealousy but they do my fucking head in to be honest.  If this was the first international tournament you'd watched you'd think these were one of the mainstays of European football rather than just a small nation whose currently getting their turn in the cycle of having a couple of decent players.  

'Their turn' is it.

Don't recall us getting to the semi-finals of the Euros or even us getting out the group stage of a major tournament after countless farcical attempts.

So when did we ever get 'our turn'? 

Hmmm I took that summer out euro-railing... was it then?

Edited June 17, 2021 by thplinth

[gkm_vancouver]

8 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I probably watched the game game through different glasses as I had a bet on 4 or more bookings in the match, there wasn't any in 90 minutes and I never once thought there should have been.

Amazed that there wasn't any bookings and I was only half-watching the game but remember this incident vividly and there was a period of a lot of squaring up foreheads, pushing and team mates pulling players off each other - or am I suffering from tartan delirium 🥴🥴😉

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50940858/page/2

 

90+1 mins

YELLOW CARD

Turkey 0-1 Wales

Yilmaz, Hakan Calhanoglu, Chris Mepham and Ben Davies are all booked for their part in that.

[ceudmilefailte]

15 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

And their keeper was threatened with a yellow card for timewasting.

If - in our wildest dreams - that ever happened to us and Marshall/Gordon lay on the ball a few seconds longer protecting a lead just as 2nd half wore on. Would you be happy if Declan Rice or Modric went up to him and started slapping him or confronting/provoking him and they were well within their rights to do so or would you rather we kicked the ball up the park as soon as they could  and risk the possibility of the ball coming right back at them??

Wasting a few seconds does not give the right for the opposition to employ dirty tactics that we all know has spoiled the game and a particularly a number of World Cups over the years.

It's not really dirty tactics , it's a natural reaction with your team as good as a minute away from elimination.

Tactics need to be pre planned by definition.

 

.

 

[scotlad]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

It's probably down to spite and jealousy but they do my fucking head in to be honest.  If this was the first international tournament you'd watched you'd think these were one of the mainstays of European football rather than just a small nation whose currently getting their turn in the cycle of having a couple of decent players.  

You'd think they were a fecking mini-Brazil the way some people on here gush over them - Northern Ireland too, to a lesser extent. 

I have no axe to grind with them though and they impressed me yesterday (even though that second goal cost me 3 points on my predictor!). 

The presence of the gibbering Robbie Savage co-commentating, however, makes them just that bit harder to like.

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

my thoughts too, I have an irrational hatred of Wales and Bale in particular. 😂

Bale-hatred is perfectly rational, given his hairstyle and his cheating against us.

Then again, if he hadn't cheated against us we might have had to endure Craig Levein as manager for a bit longer, so I'll give him some credit there.

[gkm_vancouver]

3 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

It's not really dirty tactics , it's a natural reaction with your team as good as a minute away from elimination.

Tactics need to be pre planned by definition.

 

.

 

Unless they already exist within players psyche. Most players/games that I have seen accept that it is part of the game. The winning team basically do not need to keep the game moving at a rate of knots and it is down to the losing team (that are losing because they usually deserve to) have the onus of chasing the game - as long as they operate within the rules of the game. Four players were eventually booked but it was the kerfuffle that followed not the original time-wasting.

[ThistleWhistle]

4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

'Their turn' is it.

Don't recall us getting to the semi-finals of the Euros or even us getting out the group stage of a major tournament after countless farcical attempts.

So when did we ever get 'our turn'? 

Hmmm I took that summer out euro-railing... was it then?

It's what you do with your turn though - they arguably had their last turn in the 90's when this side lost to Romania last game of qualifying to miss USA 94.  We've our best side in two decades but half of them would piss in our starting XI:

Southall Neville, Phillips David, Bodin Paul, Melville Andrew, Young Eric, Symons Kit, Horne Barry(c), Saunders Dean, Rush Ian, Speed Gary, Giggs Ryan

 

Denmark won it but it's unrealistic for a nation of 6m to expect to do that regularly however there's little doubt they're doing something a damn sight better than us with equal populations given our respective records since.  Christ even the Netherlands have a cycle with 20m population and their coaching prestige.  For me there's no doubt you can do something to speed the cycle up but without the raw materials you're snookered.  

We've had a few turns in fairness and just fucked it up really - at the minute I'd say 2024 is probably our next shot but a lot could go wrong between now and then! 

  

[aaid]

3 hours ago, Frankie S said:

Case study: Ethan Ampadu has 12 first team appearances at Chelsea (5 from the bench), including only 1 in the EPL and 25 caps for Wales.

Billy Gilmour has 22 appearances for Chelsea (8 from the bench), including 11 in the league and 2 caps for Scotland.

Ampadu is 9 months older than Gilmour and made his debut for the national team in 2017 after being called up aged 16, before he made his Chelsea first team debut 

Ask Chelsea fans which one is the better player. I’ll warrant none of them say Ampadu.

You can’t compare Ampadu to Gilmour, they are two completely different sorts of players.  Ampadu was a physically more developed than Gilmour at 16 which is why he was able to play 8 games in League 2 for Exeter before signing for Chelsea.

While notionally he’s still a Chelsea player, I’d be surprised if he ever played for the club again as his career hasn’t developed to the extent his potential suggested it might.

Ampadu also qualified for a number of different nations which is why Wales stepped in to cap him so early.  AFAIK, Gilmour is only eligible for Scotland. 

[Frankie S]

8 minutes ago, aaid said:

You can’t compare Ampadu to Gilmour, they are two completely different sorts of players.  Ampadu was a physically more developed than Gilmour at 16 which is why he was able to play 8 games in League 2 for Exeter before signing for Chelsea.

While notionally he’s still a Chelsea player, I’d be surprised if he ever played for the club again as his career hasn’t developed to the extent his potential suggested it might.

Ampadu also qualified for a number of different nations which is why Wales stepped in to cap him so early.  AFAIK, Gilmour is only eligible for Scotland. 

Wales might well have called him up early to tie him down, but he has 25 caps now, including coming off the bench in this tournament against Switzerland and Turkey, compared to Gilmour’s 2. I agree, Ampadu likely won’t be retained by Chelsea, and it’s clear that Gilmour is a far superior player, which was my original point. Wales cap promising young players earlier and more often than Scotland. 

[Tartan Chris]

Didn't realise looking back at qualifying that Ramsey only actually played in one qualifer for them, the final group game v Hungary when he scored both in 2-0 win. And 2019 Bale was pretty much bench warming every week at Real Madrid and was pretty off form for them in the qualifiers.

So they really qualfied without that much input from their star men until the last game.

Also were in a pretty kind group, Croatia, Wales, Slovakia, Hungary. Azerbaijan.

That's what happens becoming pot 2/Tier B nation.

At least Scotland is on similar path now even if the end result is currently frustrating. Best world cup group in ages and still think there's a good chance of finishing 2nd so at very least that should mean a good draw for 2024 euros.

[mccaughey85]

39 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Didn't realise looking back at qualifying that Ramsey only actually played in one qualifer for them, the final group game v Hungary when he scored both in 2-0 win. And 2019 Bale was pretty much bench warming every week at Real Madrid and was pretty off form for them in the qualifiers.

So they really qualfied without that much input from their star men until the last game.

Also were in a pretty kind group, Croatia, Wales, Slovakia, Hungary. Azerbaijan.

That's what happens becoming pot 2/Tier B nation.

At least Scotland is on similar path now even if the end result is currently frustrating. Best world cup group in ages and still think there's a good chance of finishing 2nd so at very least that should mean a good draw for 2024 euros.

We defo benefited from being a pot 2 team in the 90s. Meant we got easier groups than if we are pot2 or pot 4.

Wales have got a solid enough squad overall. They seem to get results and get the best out of their average players.

We look like we are starting to do that but obviously the Czech result was a real kick in the teeth. 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

8 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Didn't realise looking back at qualifying that Ramsey only actually played in one qualifer for them, the final group game v Hungary when he scored both in 2-0 win. And 2019 Bale was pretty much bench warming every week at Real Madrid and was pretty off form for them in the qualifiers.

So they really qualfied without that much input from their star men until the last game.

Also were in a pretty kind group, Croatia, Wales, Slovakia, Hungary. Azerbaijan.

That's what happens becoming pot 2/Tier B nation.

At least Scotland is on similar path now even if the end result is currently frustrating. Best world cup group in ages and still think there's a good chance of finishing 2nd so at very least that should mean a good draw for 2024 euros.

Being in Pot 2 helps but I have no doubt whatsover that we are (and have been) short of a match changing midfielder and talismanic figure - Wales have them whilst we don't. I'll get shot down in flames here with my realism but Bale and Ramsey stand way above what even the very best Scottish players ever have achieved playing for Scotland. You get the gist of their quality by the fact that they have played for Real Madrid and Juventus.