The news thread

[Ally Bongo]

There are still outdoor smoking areas in many pubs so you would have to coax Brand outside when he is ranting and raving at you in front of everyone ......

[scotlad]

15 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

I dont think any of the women making the accusations have actually made formal complaints to the Police

Hmm 🤔

Well, I expect Channel 4 and the Sunday Times will pass on all their research to the police and let them investigate him...or is trial by media all anyone's interested in these days?

[kumnio]

Decided to watch Dispatches last night, wish I hadn't.

A lot of accusations, a lot of hyperbole, a lot of people saying very similar things. But no evidence was provided, in all honesty, Ive no idea what evidence his potential victims could even have. It must be incredibly difficult to prove these crimes in the days after they happen, let alone over a decade later.

There have been cases where there was 99% cast iron evidence was provided, Mason Greenwood for example, but he has got away with the crime. Brand is a sleezy bastard, that was kinda his selling point though, wasn't it?

The reaction on twitter is as expected, the mental 'believe all women' on one side and the equally mental 'anti establishment' lot on the other side. I think a hell of a lot of people must just live to be permanently offended at something.

He will most likely escape prosecution, unless there is some actual evidence somewhere.

[TDYER63]

On 9/15/2023 at 7:23 PM, Ally Bongo said:

Lucy Letby to appeal all of her murder convictions

I hope to fuck she has a new legal team or at the very least her original team address the glaring issues of the original trial

Every single mainstream article you read vilifies her , there is absolutely no question of wrongful conviction. To the point you feel  ashamed to even consider it. And if she is guilty then rightly so. But something doesn’t sit quite right with me with her defence team. 

[Ally Bongo]

19 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Every single mainstream article you read vilifies her , there is absolutely no question of wrongful conviction. To the point you feel  ashamed to even consider it. And if she is guilty then rightly so. But something doesn’t sit quite right with me with her defence team. 

The only issue i have is that a couple of those who have picked up on the irregularities and speaking out have previous for anti vax misinformation

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/16/letter-suggests-pope-pius-xii-knew-of-mass-gassings-of-jews-and-poles-in-1942

pope pius knew ?

[aaid]

1 hour ago, kumnio said:

The reaction on twitter is as expected, the mental 'believe all women' on one side and the equally mental 'anti establishment' lot on the other side. I think a hell of a lot of people must just live to be permanently offended at something.

.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that "believe the victim" doesn't mean that people should unquestioningly accept that because someone has claimed that they were attacked then that must be the case.   What it does mean is that the accusation should be taken seriously and investigated accordingly and if there's a case to answer, they should be prosecuted.

This is a major change to the previous way that the police worked where most complaints were simply dismissed out of hand because, by their very nature, cases of sexual assault are very hard to prove as its one person's word against another.

[TDYER63]

18 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

The only issue i have is that a couple of those who have picked up on the irregularities and speaking out have previous for anti vax misinformation

If their claims are wrong re things like the rota being presented with selective information , and the alternative reasons for insulin and air, then it should be easy for the prosecution to disprove. Has there been anything out challenging these alternative theories? I am not on social media and only read links etc to what is posted here. 

[dan cake]

1 hour ago, kumnio said:

Decided to watch Dispatches last night, wish I hadn't.

A lot of accusations, a lot of hyperbole, a lot of people saying very similar things. But no evidence was provided, in all honesty, Ive no idea what evidence his potential victims could even have. It must be incredibly difficult to prove these crimes in the days after they happen, let alone over a decade later.

There have been cases where there was 99% cast iron evidence was provided, Mason Greenwood for example, but he has got away with the crime. Brand is a sleezy bastard, that was kinda his selling point though, wasn't it?

The reaction on twitter is as expected, the mental 'believe all women' on one side and the equally mental 'anti establishment' lot on the other side. I think a hell of a lot of people must just live to be permanently offended at something.

He will most likely escape prosecution, unless there is some actual evidence somewhere.

So will he now be more or less popular? His fans are mainly anti establishment and I don’t think he was likely to be on the BBC anytime soon anyway. Coincidentally I just noticed Boy George at the Singapore GP, he was convicted for handcuffing a man to a radiator and battered him with a chain doesn’t seem to have affected his career too much 

[Ally Bongo]

21 minutes ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/16/letter-suggests-pope-pius-xii-knew-of-mass-gassings-of-jews-and-poles-in-1942

pope pius knew ?

The Vatican along with other leaders throughout the World knew 

It's complicated

[kumnio]

6 minutes ago, aaid said:

What a lot of people seem to miss is that "believe the victim" doesn't mean that people should unquestioningly accept that because someone has claimed that they were attacked then that must be the case.   What it does mean is that the accusation should be taken seriously and investigated accordingly and if there's a case to answer, they should be prosecuted.

Maybe in your mind, and some others, but there is a massive number of people who want him in jail now, who now know that he is guilty. They want him hung, drawn and quartered.

Someone accused of a crime should be investigated, this has is a basic concept IMO. I think the vast majority of people have always believed this.

I don't know if the mental racist Inverness taxi passenger video will have made it down to England, but there's so many people that would have believed her possible allegations. Simply because of the believe women nonsense narrative.

By all means, believe evidence, but this isn't important for masses of people.

[Ally Bongo]

6 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

If their claims are wrong re things like the rota being presented with selective information , and the alternative reasons for insulin and air, then it should be easy for the prosecution to disprove. Has there been anything out challenging these alternative theories? I am not on social media and only read links etc to what is posted here. 

None whatsoever

The latest champion of Letby is David Kurten, leader of the Heritage party and he amplifies the questions raised from the science on trial website

He does speak well if you ignore his past peccadilloes  

I guess the angle of the extreme right is that if Lucy Letby is innocent then there has been a massive conspiracy by the NHS (that they hate) management at her hospital to avoid billion pound lawsuits for their negligence

 

 

[TDYER63]

2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

None whatsoever

The latest champion of Letby is David Kurten, leader of the Heritage party and he amplifies the questions raised from the science on trial website

He does speak well if you ignore his past peccadilloes  

I guess the angle of the extreme right is that if Lucy Letby is innocent then there has been a massive conspiracy by the NHS (that they hate) management at her hospital to avoid billion pound lawsuits for their negligence

 

 

For the benefit of the uninformed, what are his past peccadilloes? 
He talks about the prosecution witnesses being unreliable which might be true, but if you are making these allegations you need to be credible yourself .

That said, 2 of the things he mentions do not require any science expertise. If it was not put to the jury there were far more deaths than being presented on the  spreadsheet/rota , or if the notes she made about her being ‘evil ‘ were a redacted summary of something longer and indicating something quite different , these should easily be confirmed or denied. Same with the sewage and the hospital having to take on far more sick babies without the staff to cope. If any of these things are true and were not presented clearly to the  jury it really gives cause for concern. 

[Ally Bongo]

22 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

For the benefit of the uninformed, what are his past peccadilloes? 

 

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kurten spread COVID-19 misinformation by claiming that the disease was no worse than the flu.^[26] In December 2020, Kurten rejected a COVID-19 vaccine, for which he was denounced by the Conservative mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey, who saw this as irresponsible for an elected politician.^[27] Kurten has opposed lockdowns implemented in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and he has attended protests against UK government policies.^[28]

[TDYER63]

12 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Kurten spread COVID-19 misinformation by claiming that the disease was no worse than the flu.^[26] In December 2020, Kurten rejected a COVID-19 vaccine, for which he was denounced by the Conservative mayoral candidate Shaun Bailey, who saw this as irresponsible for an elected politician.^[27] Kurten has opposed lockdowns implemented in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and he has attended protests against UK government policies.^[28]

Well , that hardly makes his case easier but its one thing claiming something about a pandemic that very few people understand. It’s another thing entirely  trying to spin something when information should be easily obtained. 

[Ally Bongo]

1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Well , that hardly makes his case easier but its one thing claiming something about a pandemic that very few people understand. It’s another thing entirely  trying to spin something when information should be easily obtained. 

Agreed

[EddardStark]

One of the accusers is a 16 year old girl. He should be allowed to clear his name but it makes me sick the way that deniers, right wing loons and GB News types are engaging in victim blaming. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by EddardStark

[Och Aye]

49 minutes ago, EddardStark said:

One of the accusers is a 16 year old girl. He should be allowed to clear his name but it makes me sick the way that deniers, right wing loons and GB News types are engaging in victim blaming. 

She says a BBC car would pick her up and take her to his house. I get him getting picked up from his house but surely someone at the BBC should be questioning why they're sending a car to a strangers address. Another can of worms about to be opened for our national broadcaster. 

[dan cake]

14 minutes ago, Och Aye said:

Up there with the Met and Yorkshire police in terms of accountability 

Edited September 18, 2023 by dan cake

[Rich NATA]

See Liz Truss's big speech today?   F*cking bonkers.

After what happened last year, I can't believe she's even seen in public.   She can't enjoy the ridicule, surely?

[scotlad]

On 9/17/2023 at 3:37 PM, kumnio said:

Decided to watch Dispatches last night, wish I hadn't.

A lot of accusations, a lot of hyperbole, a lot of people saying very similar things. But no evidence was provided, in all honesty, Ive no idea what evidence his potential victims could even have. It must be incredibly difficult to prove these crimes in the days after they happen, let alone over a decade later.

There have been cases where there was 99% cast iron evidence was provided, Mason Greenwood for example, but he has got away with the crime. Brand is a sleezy bastard, that was kinda his selling point though, wasn't it?

The reaction on twitter is as expected, the mental 'believe all women' on one side and the equally mental 'anti establishment' lot on the other side. I think a hell of a lot of people must just live to be permanently offended at something.

He will most likely escape prosecution, unless there is some actual evidence somewhere.

Aye, Russell's "brand" seemed to be "I'm a big mad drug-taking, sex-addicted nutter, who speaks fast and will shag anything with a pulse". A bit of a weak act - I thought he was a bit of a fanny and not all that entertaining but he was popular enough for a while.

People have been comparing him to Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville, but he and his act were never for mainstream consumption. It shouldn't be a surprise when a guy who's quite openly all about taking drugs and shagging does just that.

Twitter was dreeping with hypocrisy yesterday. The same arseholes who have elevated Caroline Flack to martyr status, who cried crocodile tears after she took her life, were baying for this guy's blood, revelling in the same kind of vilification she experienced. Flack quite possibly was a domestic abuser (and arguably a "sexual predator" if you look at her predilection for much younger guys) but she deserved a fair hearing, not tormented to death by sanctimonious ghouls playing judge and jury, and Brand is the same.   

[Ally Bongo]

34 minutes ago, Rich NATA said:

See Liz Truss's big speech today?   F*cking bonkers.

After what happened last year, I can't believe she's even seen in public.   She can't enjoy the ridicule, surely?

She was talking about cutting benefits and scrapping the state pension

Obv she was going to get coverage

[kumnio]

I ponder if Liz Truss is a genius playing us all, or she is a complete fucking moron with an IQ of 80. Im pretty certain that its the latter, but I can't be certain. How can anyone genuinely be that fucking thick, she should be in special care.

[Kirk]

On 9/17/2023 at 4:53 PM, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/16/letter-suggests-pope-pius-xii-knew-of-mass-gassings-of-jews-and-poles-in-1942

pope pius knew ?

He did indeed, and almost encouraged it to an extent to keep popular as such. I'm reading a book just now that touches on it.

[Ally Bongo]

15 minutes ago, Kirk said:

He did indeed, and almost encouraged it to an extent to keep popular as such. I'm reading a book just now that touches on it.

That's boulders - If the Vatican had encouraged persecution and murder Yad Vashem would be the first to tell you

https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/pius-and-the-holocaust.html

Criticism of many organisations including the Catholic Church are valid however you have to ask what the outcome would have been for it if they had taken a more vociferous anti nazi stance

Meanwhile antisemitism was widespread in the West partcularly in the UK and the USA

FDR was a mahoosive secret anti-semite and the Americans knew what was going on in early 1942 

One of the most revealing interviews is with Hillel Kook aka Peter Bergson when he talked with Claude Lanzmann for his film Shoah in the 70s

It was thought that controversial by Lanzmann that he kept it out of the released film

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1002779