Your Scotland squad (and first XI) for Euro 2020

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Texas Pete said:

Well let’s see if he makes the squad. 

If he hadn’t been banned and had kept Tavernier out of the Rangers starting 11 then I would have no doubt Clarke would select him. 

Let me ask you this though. Why wasn’t he in Clarke’s last squad?  He was playing regularly for Rangers at that point. 

Oh don't get me wrong I don't think Clarke will pick him but he should which is my point. Clarke is a play it safe type with selections and that will come back to bite him on the arse one day.

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Oh don't get me wrong I don't think Clarke will pick him but he should which is my point. Clarke is a play it safe type with selections and that will come back to bite him on the arse one day.

I don’t totally disagree mate but Clarke could justifiably leave Patterson out since he won’t have kicked a ball in a competitive game for nearly 2 months prior to the Czech game. If Clarke is the type of manager that only picks players that are starting regularly then that’s up to him. Plenty of international managers are the same.

Gauld and Turnbull are a different story though as they have started most, if not every match for their clubs since the last international break so it will be interesting to see if they make it. 

[ProudScot]

I don’t get the Liam Palmer one.

Hes had a terrible season and is going to be a league one player, which is maybe his level. 

He’s almost 30 and hasn’t contributed much of note other than squad filling due to a lack of options. 

Replacing him with a much more talented Nathan Patterson seems a very obvious thing to do. By the time Patterson is Palmers age he could have 50 caps. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by ProudScot

[er yir macaroon]

1 minute ago, ProudScot said:

I don’t get the Liam Palmer one.

Hes bad a terrible season and is going to be a league one player, which is maybe his level. 

He’s almost 30 and hasn’t contributed much of note other than squad filling due to a lack of options. 

Replacing him with a much more talented Nathan Patterson seems a very obvious thing to do. By the time Patterson is Palmers age he could have 50 caps. 

Post Euros I think Patterson will be the first choice unless he’s really struggling for game time at club level. 

[Texas Pete]

Just now, er yir macaroon said:

Post Euros I think Patterson will be the first choice unless he’s really struggling for game time at club level. 

Which he will do unless he leaves Rangers (very unlikely) or deposes the Rangers captain. 

I suppose Tavernier could leave in the summer but I also doubt that will happen. 

[Texas Pete]

5 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

I don’t get the Liam Palmer one.

Hes had a terrible season and is going to be a league one player, which is maybe his level. 

He’s almost 30 and hasn’t contributed much of note other than squad filling due to a lack of options. 

Replacing him with a much more talented Nathan Patterson seems a very obvious thing to do. By the time Patterson is Palmers age he could have 50 caps. 

It will only be the obvious thing to do if Patterson is playing regularly for his club. 

He only got a run in the Rangers team this year because Tavernier was injured. 

I’d love to see him become Rangers first choice RB next season but how likely is that to happen? 

[ProudScot]

18 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It will only be the obvious thing to do if Patterson is playing regularly for his club. 

He only got a run in the Rangers team this year because Tavernier was injured. 

I’d love to see him become Rangers first choice RB next season but how likely is that to happen? 

I don’t see how playing regularly & badly for a bad team makes you worthy of international football, ie Palmer?

We have numerous players in our squad who aren’t regulars and for me the likes of Gilmour & Patterson should be included over less talented options. IMO

[Caledonian Craig]

33 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

It will only be the obvious thing to do if Patterson is playing regularly for his club. 

He only got a run in the Rangers team this year because Tavernier was injured. 

I’d love to see him become Rangers first choice RB next season but how likely is that to happen? 

Like I said earlier - follow the Wales model. They have done excellently of late and they bed in teenagers to the first team who have even less experience for their clubs than Patterson and guess what? Yes you've guessed it - they have done very well. Absolutely no reason why Scotland should not copy this blueprint.

[Texas Pete]

15 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

I don’t see how playing regularly & badly for a bad team makes you worthy of international football, ie Palmer?

We have numerous players in our squad who aren’t regulars and for me the likes of Gilmour & Patterson should be included over less talented options. IMO

I’m not Palmer’s biggest fan but Patterson could realistically not play a single game for Rangers next season. Should he be in the Scotland squad if that’s the case? 

[Texas Pete]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Like I said earlier - follow the Wales model. They have done excellently of late and they bed in teenagers to the first team who have even less experience for their clubs than Patterson and guess what? Yes you've guessed it - they have done very well. Absolutely no reason why Scotland should not copy this blueprint.

We’re not Wales though. They often pick young players that don’t feature much for their clubs because they don’t have a choice. They have done very well over the last few years but that doesn’t necessarily mean it would work for us. You could argue that our choices at RB are so weak that we don’t have any choice but to select Patterson but as we both know Clarke is unlikely to do that.  

Once Bale and a couple of others retire I would imagine Wales will fade back into obscurity where they have spent 95% of international football history. 

If Patterson is playing semi regularly for his club then he may well break into the international squad but if he goes back to playing more or less zero first team games for Rangers I doubt he’ll feature much for Scotland. 

Hopefully he’ll either get a move to another club where he’ll be first choice RB or Tavernier will leave Rangers but I doubt either will happen next season. 

[Taylor1996]

2 hours ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Whilst adams isn’t great he is still better than dykes . Dykes is just a slightly more mobile version of mcburnie 

Dykes is mid-table championship level and the jump to a tournament finals is too bit.

It's what Dykes gives us that I like. He's the best option we have In the air. Without doubt. Dykes actually shrinks when he leaps.

I think he could make it in the EPL after another couple years In the Championship. He's a better finisher than Adams. 

[Texas Pete]

17 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

It's what Dykes gives us that I like. He's the best option we have In the air. Without doubt. Dykes actually shrinks when he leaps.

I think he could make it in the EPL after another couple years In the Championship. He's a better finisher than Adams. 

I assume you mean Adams shrinks when he leaps?

I wouldn’t play Adams up front on his own but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t play. 

[borojock]

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

Is the bottom of the English championship (League one next year unless Palmer gets a move) really a higher level than the Scottish Premiership? 

In my opinion yes, take away Rangers and Celtic, who only make up 16% of the league,  in my opinion the rest of the teams are at a lower level than the bottom of the table Championship Clubs

What I base that opinion on is what level the majority of the players that transfer from English clubs to Scottish Premiership clubs are from - if you look at the last 10 years of data the players that come from England to Scotland are from under the Championship most come up from League One and Two so it could be argued they aren't Championship level players 

Take for example Scotland's third best club Hibs, in their current squad they have 9 players who have played in England.  The last season those players played in England the majority of their games were in the below leagues

• Three in League 2
• Four in in League 1
• Two in the Championship

So 7 of the 9 players were playing at a level under the championship and thats for the 3rd best team in Scotland if you look at the bottom club Hamilton they have 8 players who played in England and their last season playing in England was in the below leagues 

• Three in League 2
• Three in League 1
• One in the National League South
• One in the Championship 

Therefore i would suggest our league is filled with players who play at a level lower than the Championship - i'd also probably suggest the level of training facilities and coaches are better at bottom of the table Championship clubs than the majority of our league clubs 

If you reversed it i imagine the majority of players that leave Scottish Premiership clubs to go to England would be going down South to clubs under the Championship level - yes there are examples of John McGinn etc but speaking on the majority of cases they go to a level under the championship 

[Texas Pete]

10 minutes ago, borojock said:

In my opinion yes, take away Rangers and Celtic, who only make up 16% of the league,  in my opinion the rest of the teams are at a lower level than the bottom of the table Championship Clubs

What I base that opinion on is what level the majority of the players that transfer from English clubs to Scottish Premiership clubs are from - if you look at the last 10 years of data the players that come from England to Scotland are from under the Championship most come up from League One and Two so it could be argued they aren't Championship level players 

Take for example Scotland's third best club Hibs, in their current squad they have 9 players who have played in England.  The last season those players played in England the majority of their games were in the below leagues

• Three in League 2
• Four in in League 1
• Two in the Championship

So 7 of the 9 players were playing at a level under the championship and thats for the 3rd best team in Scotland if you look at the bottom club Hamilton they have 8 players who played in England and their last season playing in England was in the below leagues 

• Three in League 2
• Three in League 1
• One in the National League South
• One in the Championship 

Therefore i would suggest our league is filled with players who play at a level lower than the Championship - i'd also probably suggest the level of training facilities and coaches are better at bottom of the table Championship clubs than the majority of our league clubs 

If you reversed it i imagine the majority of players that leave Scottish Premiership clubs to go to England would be going down South to clubs under the Championship level - yes there are examples of John McGinn etc but speaking on the majority of cases they go to a level under the championship 

Do you remember Aberdeen’s genes against Burnley fairly recently? They competed well.  Aberdeen would likely beat Sheffield Wednesday right now and Aberdeen can barely score a goal up here. 

Bottom of the English Championship might be comparable to the Scottish Premiership but it is hardly significantly better that top 6 Premiership.

I realise O’Donnell isn’t playing for a top 6 team but he’s easily good enough to play for Wednesday. 

I guess the point I’m making is both players are of a similar standard. I don’t think you can say Palmer is better because he plays for a relegated championship team. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Texas Pete

[Taylor1996]

35 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

I assume you mean Adams shrinks when he leaps?

I wouldn’t play Adams up front on his own but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t play. 

Yeah. I meant Adams. Oops. 

A second striker like Christie, Forrest, Fraser, McGinn, etc, offers a lot more than Adams. 

[Texas Pete]

Just now, Taylor1996 said:

Yeah. I meant Adams. Oops. 

A second striker like Christie, Forrest, Fraser, McGinn, etc, offers a lot more than Adams. 

Christie can hardly hit a barn door with a banjo at the moment and I doubt McGinn will play up front next month. Will Fraser and Forrest be fit? 

Adams is another option and is a good player. At least we have options up front which is something we haven’t really had for years. 

[borojock]

29 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Do you remember Aberdeen’s genes against Burnley fairly recently? They competed well.  Aberdeen would likely beat Sheffield Wednesday right now and Aberdeen can barely score a goal up here. 

Bottom of the English Championship might be comparable to the Scottish Premiership but it is hardly significantly better that top 6 Premiership.

I realise O’Donnell isn’t playing for a top 6 team but he’s easily good enough to play for Wednesday. 

I guess the point I’m making is both players are of a similar standard. I don’t think you can say Palmer is better because he plays for a relegated championship team. 

Respect your opinion and thats what makes these kind of places so interesting that we can all view things differently 

As i said on my original post i dont see much difference between Palmer and O'Donnell only reason i would go for Palmer with him playing, in what is in my very humble opinion, a higher level - ideally i would have liked Paterson to have played a few more games as i think he's got real potential and could have been in with a shout i would be hesitant pushing him forward with only 16 appearances before Hickey got injured i would have also considered him at right back over the 2 of them  

On the Aberdeen v Sheff Weds discussion again in my very humble opinion i dont see many Aberdeen players getting in the Sheff Weds starting 11 and i would back Sheff Weds on that bet - also if Sheff Weds didnt have points deduction they wouldnt have been relegated 

 

[Third Lanark]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Like I said earlier - follow the Wales model. They have done excellently of late and they bed in teenagers to the first team who have even less experience for their clubs than Patterson and guess what? Yes you've guessed it - they have done very well. Absolutely no reason why Scotland should not copy this blueprint.

Totally agree with that. Even England are picking players who are in their teens with limited first team appearances. Northern Ireland too provide a similar model. 

[Taylor1996]

14 minutes ago, borojock said:

Respect your opinion and thats what makes these kind of places so interesting that we can all view things differently 

100% correct.

And all opinions should be respected and not "cancelled",

[Taylor1996]

24 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Christie can hardly hit a barn door with a banjo at the moment and I doubt McGinn will play up front next month. Will Fraser and Forrest be fit? 

Adams is another option and is a good player. At least we have options up front which is something we haven’t really had for years. 

I know, but we what Christie has in his locker. (For some) Adams is an unknown quantity. 

Fraser has only got a week left of rehab. He had a groin operation. Forrest? Dunno.

I've watched him for years, even more so since he decided that he was Scottish. I genuinely would rather choose Dykes, McBurnie and Griffiths as the strikers

[Texas Pete]

32 minutes ago, borojock said:

Respect your opinion and thats what makes these kind of places so interesting that we can all view things differently 

As i said on my original post i dont see much difference between Palmer and O'Donnell only reason i would go for Palmer with him playing, in what is in my very humble opinion, a higher level - ideally i would have liked Paterson to have played a few more games as i think he's got real potential and could have been in with a shout i would be hesitant pushing him forward with only 16 appearances before Hickey got injured i would have also considered him at right back over the 2 of them  

On the Aberdeen v Sheff Weds discussion again in my very humble opinion i dont see many Aberdeen players getting in the Sheff Weds starting 11 and i would back Sheff Weds on that bet - also if Sheff Weds didnt have points deduction they wouldnt have been relegated 

 

They wouldn’t have been but they would still be in 20th position. They are not a good team. 

McKenna is doing pretty well for Forest by all accounts so it’s not as if Aberdeen players can’t go down to the English Championship and do well. 

Neither O’Donnell or Palmer fill me with confidence when they play so hopefully Patterson will progress as we hope. He will be significantly better than either of those two. 

[weekevie04]

My squad

GOALKEEPERS

Craig Gordon 

David Marshall 

Jon McLaughlin 

 

DEFENDERS

Liam Cooper 

Declan Gallagher

Grant Hanley 

Jack Hendry 

Scott McKenna 

Stephen O'Donnell

Nathan Patterson 

Andy Robertson 

Kieran Tierney 

 

MIDFIELDERS

Stuart Armstrong 

David Turnbull

James Forrest 

 Billy Gilmour 

John McGinn 

Callum McGregor

Ryan Gauld

Scott McTominay 

Ryan Fraser

 

STRIKERS

Che Adams 

Ryan Christie 

Lyndon Dykes 

Leigh Griffiths 

With the three extra spaces, there's no excuse in picking Gilmour, Gauld and Turnbull. All uncapped, but all have proven they can play this year. 

It would also give us a bit of mystery too. 

If Gilmour was Welsh or Northern Irish, he would have about 15 caps by now! He's 20 this summer. Get him in that squad and Gauld too who's having a beltin' season for a poor side in the Portuguese league. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by weekevie04

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

They wouldn’t have been but they would still be in 20th position. They are not a good team. 

McKenna is doing pretty well for Forest by all accounts so it’s not as if Aberdeen players can’t go down to the English Championship and do well. 

Neither O’Donnell or Palmer fill me with confidence when they play so hopefully Patterson will progress as we hope. He will be significantly better than either of those two. 

McKenna is doing well for a team near the bottom of the championship and he was one of the better players in the SPL.

Borojock has nailed it by suggesting we look at at our imports rather than our exports to make comparisons between the different leagues. 

[Texas Pete]

4 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

McKenna is doing well for a team near the bottom of the championship and he was one of the better players in the SPL.

Borojock has nailed it by suggesting we look at at our imports rather than our exports to make comparisons between the different leagues. 

All that does is tell you how much money there is in each league. There is obviously more money in the English championship but the teams at the bottom of the league don’t appear to spend it well. 

[ceudmilefailte]

28 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

All that does is tell you how much money there is in each league. There is obviously more money in the English championship but the teams at the bottom of the league don’t appear to spend it well. 

Apologies but I'm not sure what you mean. We are ending up with players that are prepared to come to Scotland simply to get a wage. None of them are good enough for the championship that is why they are here. Does this make us the third richest league in the U.K