Serbia Next

[Super_Scotlandfan]

Their squad is on Wikipedia now if anyone wants to look.

There will be a lot of pressure on Milinkovic-Savic. Their other stars going forward Jovic and Mitrovic haven’t had good starts to the season and Tadic is now probably slightly past his peak (hopefully). Strong squad though obviously. 

[Super_Scotlandfan]

They’ve also named Duricic in their squad who seems to have just tested for COVID. Assume he won’t play if he can’t join the squad before their game with us. 

He would start, has 3 goals and 1 assist in 5 Seria A games this season. 

[Tartan blood]

36 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh we have a decent squad ourselves but I would say they have a bit more depth and a better spread of players over different positions. We are quite weak upfront and at centre back compared to them. We will probably start players who play for motherwell and QPR where as I can't see them having to resort to players from teams so poor. 

I am however optimistic but experience of seeing Scotland fail over the last 20 years has made me more realistic about our chances. 

I think we are now at a stage where we shouldn't be talking disparingingly about the teams the player plays for. Yes, we might play someone from Motherwell and QPR, but only because they are the best for that position. We could easily fill up the first 11 with guys from teams with a higher stature.

Our back 5 could be made up of players all from the Premier league and Serie A if we wanted to (Robbo, Tierney, Cooper, McTominay, Hickey) which looks good on paper. Then we could have 2 Sheffield utd players up front as well. But that could end up being to the detriment of the team. I want our strongest 11, not the 11 that looks good.

We are finally in a moment where we are spoiled for choice in a lot of areas. The fact our best option doesn't play for a high profile team doesn't really matter.

[mccaughey85]

16 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think we are now at a stage where we shouldn't be talking disparingingly about the teams the player plays for. Yes, we might play someone from Motherwell and QPR, but only because they are the best for that position. We could easily fill up the first 11 with guys from teams with a higher stature.

Our back 5 could be made up of players all from the Premier league and Serie A if we wanted to (Robbo, Tierney, Cooper, McTominay, Hickey) which looks good on paper. Then we could have 2 Sheffield utd players up front as well. But that could end up being to the detriment of the team. I want our strongest 11, not the 11 that looks good.

We are finally in a moment where we are spoiled for choice in a lot of areas. The fact our best option doesn't play for a high profile team doesn't really matter.

I don't mind who a player plays for as long he plays well but it doesn't change the fact that Serbia won't have to rely on players from teams of the calibre of QPR or motherwell. 

Hickeys never played rb at a high level and mctominay is playing out of position at CB, Coopers played a couple of games at epl level. That's hardly a top level backline. 

"We could easily fill up the first 11 with guys from teams with a higher stature." 

I don't think we can, that's why we have to rely on guys from motherwell, sheff wed, aberdeen and motherwell. 

Serbia have strong depth that means they mostly don't need to resort to that level of clubs. 

" We are finally in a moment where we are spoiled for choice in a lot of areas. The fact our best option doesn't play for a high profile team doesn't really matter." 

Are we? We have had the luckiest run of results I have ever seen Scotland have. We got lucky with two soft penalties to draw with Israel and beat a Czech D team. We then scraped past Israel on pens and held on for dear life against the Czechs. Fair enough we looked good OK against Slovakia but we shouldn't be getting overly confident over this run of results. 

We are still well short of top level players in certain positions. Centre back and striker in particular. 

I don't want to sound negative because I think we have a decent squad with some top players plus Clarke has us moving in the right direction but Serbia do have a stronger squad with plenty of guys who play in top leagues. 

[ceudmilefailte]

According to whoscored.com the game should be a formality for us.

Famous last words.

Mind you the site thinks Liam Palmer is better than any one in the Serbian team bar Milinkovic-Savic

Edited November 2, 2020 by ceudmilefailte

[Super_Scotlandfan]

2 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

They’ve also named Duricic in their squad who seems to have just tested for COVID. Assume he won’t play if he can’t join the squad before their game with us. 

He would start, has 3 goals and 1 assist in 5 Seria A games this season. 

Also seems like Tadic has covid too.

Ajax has 11 players that have tested positive. 

Need to hope our players don’t test positive!

[Templeton_Peck]

14 minutes ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Also seems like Tadic has covid too.

Ajax has 11 players that have tested positive. 

Need to hope our players don’t test positive!

If Tadic is out then that is huge. He is arguably their most important player. 

[romanticscot]

When is our squad scheduled to be announced it can't be long?  Has Griffiths done enough to get called up? 

[Caledonian Craig]

4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I don't mind who a player plays for as long he plays well but it doesn't change the fact that Serbia won't have to rely on players from teams of the calibre of QPR or motherwell. 

Hickeys never played rb at a high level and mctominay is playing out of position at CB, Coopers played a couple of games at epl level. That's hardly a top level backline. 

"We could easily fill up the first 11 with guys from teams with a higher stature." 

I don't think we can, that's why we have to rely on guys from motherwell, sheff wed, aberdeen and motherwell. 

Serbia have strong depth that means they mostly don't need to resort to that level of clubs. 

" We are finally in a moment where we are spoiled for choice in a lot of areas. The fact our best option doesn't play for a high profile team doesn't really matter." 

Are we? We have had the luckiest run of results I have ever seen Scotland have. We got lucky with two soft penalties to draw with Israel and beat a Czech D team. We then scraped past Israel on pens and held on for dear life against the Czechs. Fair enough we looked good OK against Slovakia but we shouldn't be getting overly confident over this run of results. 

We are still well short of top level players in certain positions. Centre back and striker in particular. 

I don't want to sound negative because I think we have a decent squad with some top players plus Clarke has us moving in the right direction but Serbia do have a stronger squad with plenty of guys who play in top leagues. 

Hmmm look closer and it is a different picture. Their goalkeeper in the last match V Turkey was Dmitrovic who plays for a club I've never heard of in La Liga - Eibar. They had players playing for hardly the biggest clubs in France in Strasbourg (one from bottom of Ligue One) and Montpellier (a mid-table Ligue One team). A player playing for Getafe in La Liga who are probably equivalent to a mid-table EPL club. A player playing for Torino who are second bottom of Serie A and one at Torino - a mid-table Serie A club in Lazio (hmm beaten twice by Celtic last season). Another who plays for another mid-table Serie B in the form of Verona. Up front Mitovic plays for Fulham struggling in the EPL so you see it is not piss your pants time.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Caledonian Craig

[Morrisandmoo]

1 hour ago, romanticscot said:

When is our squad scheduled to be announced it can't be long?  Has Griffiths done enough to get called up? 

I would take him. Because I know if it got to 75mins and we need a goal, I'd want him there. 

Dykes obviously a stick on starter. But no harm in having a proven goal scorer like griffiths for an all or nothing game. 

[mccaughey85]

4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmmm look closer and it is a different picture. Their goalkeeper in the last match V Turkey was Dmitrovic who plays for a club I've never heard of in La Liga - Eibar. They had players playing for hardly the biggest clubs in France in Strasbourg (one from bottom of Ligue One) and Montpellier (a mid-table Ligue One team). A player playing for Getafe in La Liga who are probably equivalent to a mid-table EPL club. A player playing for Torino who are second bottom of Serie A and one at Torino - a mid-table Serie A club in Lazio (hmm beaten twice by Celtic last season). Another who plays for another mid-table Serie B in the form of Verona. Up front Mitovic plays for Fulham struggling in the EPL so you see it is not piss your pants time.

Not sure what your point is, you have listed a bunch of players that are playing in top leagues in Europe. Surely you are helping make my point about the strength in depth that Serbia have. Most of the players you have mentioned aren't even their star players but they still play at a decent level. 

Mitrovic is easily a step up from any striker we have. 

Its nice to puff your chest out and be blindly optimistic but its a fact that Serbia have a better squad and they have strength in depth. It will be a big ask for us to beat them.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, mccaughey85 said:

Not sure what your point is, you have listed a bunch of players that are playing in top leagues in Europe. Surely you are helping make my point about the strength in depth that Serbia have. Most of the players you have mentioned aren't even their star players but they still play at a decent level. 

Mitrovic is easily a step up from any striker we have. 

Its nice to puff your chest out and be blindly optimistic but its a fact that Serbia have a better squad and they have strength in depth. It will be a big ask for us to beat them.

They are all, aside from a couple, playing for teams that are either mid-table or bottom of those leagues. And the EPL certainly has better standing than France's Ligue One and ours in the EPL are I'd say above levels of ones struggling in La Liga and Serie A that is my point.

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

 

Its nice to puff your chest out and be blindly optimistic but its a fact that Serbia have a better squad and they have strength in depth. It will be a big ask for us to beat them.

And its easy to mess your pants and mentally beat yourself before a ball has been kicked. That's not my style.

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

They are all, aside from a couple, playing for teams that are either mid-table or bottom of those leagues. And the EPL certainly has better standing than France's Ligue One and ours in the EPL are I'd say above levels of ones struggling in La Liga and Serie A that is my point.

My original point was that Serbia tend not to have to rely on  players from clubs like motherwell, QPR, sheff wed etc for their first team. 

They have strength in depth that means that they can turn to guys from top European leagues as back up. 

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

And its easy to mess your pants and mentally beat yourself before a ball has been kicked. That's not my style.

I haven't done that, I have just stated facts about Serbia. There's no point in deluding yourself. 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

I haven't done that, I have just stated facts about Serbia. There's no point in deluding yourself. 

As have I. Those are the clubs their players play for. None aside from one is playing at a top club (Real Madrid) and others are at clubs either mid-table or bottom of the table. You are reading too much into the fact they play across Europe and not looking deeply enough into what club they are playing at. The EPL (in my eyes) is certainly above Ligue One where they have players playing for bottom of the table and mid-table teams. They have players playing at bottom of leagues La Liga and Serie A and I put that below the likes of a number of EPL clubs our players play for (Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds, Southampton and Aston Villa) with Sheffield United probably on a par with them. The players we have playing at Celtic and Rangers are two clubs who have better European pedigree than Strasbourg, Montpellier, Torino, Verona, Eidar and Lazio.

[mccaughey85]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

As have I. Those are the clubs their players play for. None aside from one is playing at a top club (Real Madrid) and others are at clubs either mid-table or bottom of the table. You are reading too much into the fact they play across Europe and not looking deeply enough into what club they are playing at. The EPL (in my eyes) is certainly above Ligue One where they have players playing for bottom of the table and mid-table teams. They have players playing at bottom of leagues La Liga and Serie A and I put that below the likes of a number of EPL clubs our players play for (Liverpool, Arsenal, Leeds, Southampton and Aston Villa) with Sheffield United probably on a par with them. The players we have playing at Celtic and Rangers are two clubs who have better European pedigree than Strasbourg, Montpellier, Torino, Verona, Eidar and Lazio.

I never said that they have lots of players playing for top clubs. What I have said is that they have back up players that play in top leagues. We have back up players who play for Aberdeen, motherwell, QPR etc. Infact our star striker plays for QPR and our first choice right backs play for sheff wed and motherwell. Surely you can see that Serbia have strength in depth that we don't. It's not being pessimistic or a bed wetter it's just clear that the Serbian squad is stronger and has a better spread of talent across all positions. 

Simple question, do you think Serbia have a stronger squad than us? 

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, romanticscot said:

When is our squad scheduled to be announced it can't be long?  Has Griffiths done enough to get called up? 

Never rated Griffiths and he hasn't done enough to get called up but then again nor have Shankland, Paterson or Burke and I know which one of the four I would want to come on if a goal behind with  15 minutes to go.

[Caledonian Craig]

9 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I never said that they have lots of players playing for top clubs. What I have said is that they have back up players that play in top leagues. We have back up players who play for Aberdeen, motherwell, QPR etc. Infact our star striker plays for QPR and our first choice right backs play for sheff wed and motherwell. Surely you can see that Serbia have strength in depth that we don't. It's not being pessimistic or a bed wetter it's just clear that the Serbian squad is stronger and has a better spread of talent across all positions. 

Simple question, do you think Serbia have a stronger squad than us? 

As someone pointed out earlier we could put out a team with players playing for an EPL club in attack but, as is the way in football, that does not mean you have a stronger team because of it. We could dip all the way back to Northern Ireland's David Healey who had extremely limited top flight experience but went on to score more goals at international level than Kenny Dalglish. The clubs a player plays for does not determine how successful they are at international football.

As for your question - they maybe edge it but it is not a yawning chasm like you are trying to paint. But there is a lot more to take into account such as current form which Scotland have the edge on Serbia. My thoughts are that if Hungary can beat them and they can only manage one win in the last five we should be fancying our chances not being shrinking violets.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Caledonian Craig

[Morrisandmoo]

Football fans are mental. Pretty much everybody unanimously agrees that Serbia are the better team, but nothing to fear and more than beatable. But we manage to argue over the point of emphasis...some portraying themselves as cold, logical realists emphasising the former others as optimistic go-getters, nothing ventured nothing gained types, emphasising the latter. 

Don't get me wrong I love it!

But the optimistic realist knows that for us to qualify for a major tournament requires that we beat one or two nations who are better than us (at least on paper). Given that's the case it's great that it's only 1 team and they are only a wee bit better! Plus we are the luckiest team in world football (from now on)! The situation could barely be more favourable. 

[ceudmilefailte]

47 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Hmmm look closer and it is a different picture. Their goalkeeper in the last match V Turkey was Dmitrovic who plays for a club I've never heard of in La Liga - Eibar. They had players playing for hardly the biggest clubs in France in Strasbourg (one from bottom of Ligue One) and Montpellier (a mid-table Ligue One team). A player playing for Getafe in La Liga who are probably equivalent to a mid-table EPL club. A player playing for Torino who are second bottom of Serie A and one at Torino - a mid-table Serie A club in Lazio (hmm beaten twice by Celtic last season). Another who plays for another mid-table Serie B in the form of Verona. Up front Mitovic plays for Fulham struggling in the EPL so you see it is not piss your pants time.

I think a Serbian Supporters board could put a a far more negative spin on our squad.

Strikers who don't score any goals from a bottom of the Epl side and a bottom half Championship side.

A central defender and a wing back from a bottom half SPL side

A midfielder playing in defence from a bottom half EPL side

A couple of Midfielders who have never played out side their national league.

A goal keeper from a team no ones ever heard of.( unless it's Bain)

A bit part player playing for some team called Newcastle Iv'e never heard of them

A central defender in his 30's who plays for a side that won something in the 80's

They have a great left back at Liverpool playing at wing back

The guy McGinn has a few international goals though so he must be pretty good.

 

I still think we are going to win though.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I think a Serbian Supporters board could put a a far more negative spin on our squad.

Strikers who don't score any goals from a bottom of the Epl side and a bottom half Championship side.

A central defender and a wing back from a bottom half SPL side

A midfielder playing in defence from a bottom half EPL side

A couple of Midfielders who have never played out side their national league.

A goal keeper from a team no ones ever heard of.( unless it's Bain)

A bit part player playing for some team called Newcastle Iv'e never heard of them

A central defender in his 30's who plays for a side that won something in the 80's

They have a great left back at Liverpool playing at wing back

The guy McGinn has a few international goals though so he must be pretty good.

 

I still think we are going to win though.

Of course. 

Over in Serbia you will have the same sort of mix. Some unhappy with the vein of form they are in going into the match and others more confident as its only Scotland etc.

[mccaughey85]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

As someone pointed out earlier we could put out a team with players playing for an EPL club in attack but, as is the way in football, that does not mean you have a stronger team because of it. We could dip all the way back to Northern Ireland's David Healey who had extremely limited top flight experience but went on to score more goals at international level than Kenny Dalglish. The clubs a player plays for does not determine how successful they are at international football.

As for your question - they maybe edge it but it is not a yawning chasm like you are trying to paint. But there is a lot more to take into account such as current form which Scotland have the edge on Serbia. My thoughts are that if Hungary can beat them and they can only manage one win in the last five we should be fancying our chances not being shrinking violets.

I never said it did.

We couldn't put out a second choice team made up of players playing in top leagues. Serbia would probably be able to. Serbia have more strength in depth than us which is pretty obvious. 

Serbia beat Norway quite comfortably and we struggled to get past a very poor Israel team. 

Serbia will be favourites and rightly so and getting all fired up about our chances is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I also never said there was a yawning chasm between the squads but I think it is clear that Serbia have a stronger squad. 

[mccaughey85]

7 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I think a Serbian Supporters board could put a a far more negative spin on our squad.

Strikers who don't score any goals from a bottom of the Epl side and a bottom half Championship side.

A central defender and a wing back from a bottom half SPL side

A midfielder playing in defence from a bottom half EPL side

A couple of Midfielders who have never played out side their national league.

A goal keeper from a team no ones ever heard of.( unless it's Bain)

A bit part player playing for some team called Newcastle Iv'e never heard of them

A central defender in his 30's who plays for a side that won something in the 80's

They have a great left back at Liverpool playing at wing back

The guy McGinn has a few international goals though so he must be pretty good.

 

I still think we are going to win though.

This is a point I have been trying to get across. Scotland fans need a reality check. Our first choice goalkeeper plays for Derby County in the second tier. Our first right backs play for sheff wed and motherwell and our star striker plays for QPR in the championship. Its not rocket science to suggest Serbia have a stronger squad than us. How many of the Serbian squad play in second tier leagues. This run of results has been great but let's not get carried away thinking we have a squad of top players playing in top leagues. 

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, mccaughey85 said:

I never said it did.

We couldn't put out a second choice team made up of players playing in top leagues. Serbia would probably be able to. Serbia have more strength in depth than us which is pretty obvious. 

Serbia beat Norway quite comfortably and we struggled to get past a very poor Israel team. 

Serbia will be favourites and rightly so and getting all fired up about our chances is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I also never said there was a yawning chasm between the squads but I think it is clear that Serbia have a stronger squad. 

FFS Serbia absolutely did NOT beat Norway comfortably. They won the match with a goal 12 minutes into extra-time and had less possession than Norway. And Serbia currently look set for relegation from their current Nations League group. 

Serbia will be favourites given that they have home advantage certainly not on current form. I'd hope to hell our players are getting fired up about their chances rather than crapping themselves as that shows a distinct lack of confidence and low self-esteem.

So you think its clear Serbia have a stronger squad(sounds like a big margin you are talking there to me). I hope to god our players don't share that mindset or they are a beaten team already.