Coronavirus

[phart]

It's human nature to weigh your suffering over someone elses life. We all do it at some point. It is interesting to see where the line is drawn for people there is a large distribution and it's impossible to say who is right.

[tartandon]

7 hours ago, Lamia said:

By releasing restrictions before enough people had been vaccinated I think we have well and truly f*cked it up. The more cases we have the more chance of variants and if we get one that escapes the vaccine then it is tatties! 

I think it is telling that Scotland has had the highest infection rate for weeks and the opposition parties are saying absolutely nothing. We have release the genie and it is now now going back in the box and goodness knows where that will leave us!

If and when we manage to get the numbers back under control, the risk of importing a vaccine-resistent variant will always be present as long as foreign travel is permitted.

As long as the virus is in circulation across the globe, foreign travel should be off the cards.

 

[Lamia]

3 hours ago, Morrisandmoo said:

I understand this position, but I don't subscribe to it myself. 

Socialising is not an optional part of our existence.  It has always been a dangerous activity that leads to hospitilsations and death. Nevertheless we have for the last couple of hundred thousand years tolerated this risk for the benefits it grants to individuals, society and our species. Today is no different, in except as far as socialising is much safer today than it has been in the past.  

I can accept the argument for a temporary shutdown of social spaces for the immediate protection of lives and our helathcare system. But the longer that shutdown goes on the heavier the negative impacts of social distancing weighs on individuals, society and our species. It's not just convenience that is sacrificed. And everybody will have a different view of when that balance shifts, which we need to respect. 

That being said - keeping the pubs closed until you've materially vaccinated everybody wouldn't have been a particularly unreasonable policy, given how much we'd already given up. However, I think it's very unfair (and certainly unrealistic) to open up pubs and then expect people not to socialise in those spaces or to demonize them for doing what (ultimately) comes naturally to them. It's not that folk think they are immune, it's just that humans (in general) have always accepted that it's worth the risk. 

If excess deaths are on anybody's shoulders then it's the Scottish Government. And nothing is gained by pointing fingers at ordinary folk doing ordinary things. 

We have done it for over a year and only had to do it for a few more weeks. Why blow it over a few weeks when we have done it for months 

[Lamia]

1 hour ago, tartandon said:

If and when we manage to get the numbers back under control, the risk of importing a vaccine-resistent variant will always be present as long as foreign travel is permitted.

As long as the virus is in circulation across the globe, foreign travel should be off the cards.

 

I accept that but surely we want to do our bit and avoid adding our own. We could also do a lot more to avoid importation or stop it spreading 

[TDYER63]

Is yesterday’s news that the UK government is considering making foreign travel available for those who have had 2 vaccines actually likely to happen, or is it just another example of them trying to please people before then doing another u-turn ?
I cant help feeling they are merely paying lip service as they are getting sued by Ryanair and the owners of Stanstead and Manchester airports. 

[phart]

Good news is it seems that against hospitalisation Vaccines seem more effective against Delta than they do Alpha!

Pfizer is proving to be a better vaccine though. Which shows what remarkable technology it is cause the AZ is amazing just not relative to the mRNA.

[Och Aye]

According to Sky News the government are considering waiving the requirement of self isolating when people come in to contact with people who are positive if they've had 2 vaccinations. Not seen the science behind this but weren't we being told you can still catch it and pass it on? 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Och Aye

[Lamia]

2 hours ago, Och Aye said:

According to Sky News the government are considering waiving the requirement of self isolating when people come in to contact with people who are positive if they've had 2 vaccinations. Not seen the science behind this but weren't we being told you can still catch it and pass it on? 

You can but it seems the evidence is quite positive about the reduction in catching it and then in transmission. They are apparently doing this in the US not that I would trust them to get it right

[Lamia]

I now have a lot of sympathy for businesses such as pubs and the events sector in terms of social distancing. Lots of people are not bothering with this at all any more so I am now starting to feel why should we be forcing this on people trying to make a living. We have just seen thousands of people gathering hugging and being right next to each other so why are England bothering with the test event at Donington and requiring PCR test. Seems pointless really.

[Och Aye]

1 hour ago, Lamia said:

You can but it seems the evidence is quite positive about the reduction in catching it and then in transmission. They are apparently doing this in the US not that I would trust them to get it right

If this does happen do you think then if you go abroad you won't have to isolate on your return if you have both jags? 

[Lamia]

4 hours ago, Och Aye said:

If this does happen do you think then if you go abroad you won't have to isolate on your return if you have both jags? 

Maybe. I also think this could be a tactic to encourage more people to get vaccinated.

[Och Aye]

11 hours ago, Lamia said:

Maybe. I also think this could be a tactic to encourage more people to get vaccinated.

Good point. 

[gkm_vancouver]

Half a million dead in Brazil and a bampot president that makes Trump look sensible. No matter how we do in UK with vaccines idiots like Bolsonaro are going to make overseas travel at very least difficult and restrictive for many years to come 😨

[DAVIDB46]

Scotland is now the worst in europe for new cases not good at all

[Lamia]

2 hours ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Scotland is now the worst in europe for new cases not good at all

And that is before the Euros effect!

[kumnio]

Why are we so bad?

I haven’t been paying much attention to it, but the figures are frankly fucking ridiculous. 

[Lamia]

Anyone know how India did this. I have tried googling what their restrictions are like but can't really figure it out and not sure how their vaccine rollout is going either but it is a pretty dramatic reduction

 

 

[euan2020]

On 6/18/2021 at 7:29 AM, phart said:

Good news is it seems that against hospitalisation Vaccines seem more effective against Delta than they do Alpha!

Pfizer is proving to be a better vaccine though. Which shows what remarkable technology it is cause the AZ is amazing just not relative to the mRNA.

thanks - heading back to US from SOuth Africa, and was thinking of getting the Pfizer or Moderna - above helps decision

[phart]

 

[tartandon]

the good news about mrna vaccines is that they are comparatively easy to 'tweak' for any variants identified by sequencing. I heard something on the radio earlier where they were saying that the Pfizer jag was ready before Easter last year. It was the conical trials and associated regulatory approval that took ages.  I hope there is some sort of 'fast track' approval for any follow-up jags that target emerging variants.

 

 

[TDYER63]

On 6/20/2021 at 5:29 PM, kumnio said:

Why are we so bad?

I haven’t been paying much attention to it, but the figures are frankly fucking ridiculous. 

I realise there will be more to it than this and it is only my own observation,  but I am finding younger folk are adhering  less and less to the rules. On trains there are increasing numbers not wearing masks , mainly under 25. Workies in particular are the worst offenders. Not sure if they think they are invincible cos they are young and wearing hard boots. If I was wearing  a pair myself  i would give them a kick up the arse. If they are brazenly ignoring the rules in public what are they doing in private.  

As I said , there is more to it than this, and I dont mean to be generalising about young folk because many are sticking to the rules and it will be particularly hard for them, but this is definitely an area causing problems and until everyone is vaccinated I think we will continue to struggle. 

[Orraloon]

13 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

I realise there will be more to it than this and it is only my own observation,  but I am finding younger folk are adhering  less and less to the rules. On trains there are increasing numbers not wearing masks , mainly under 25. Workies in particular are the worst offenders. Not sure if they think they are invincible cos they are young and wearing hard boots. If I was wearing  a pair myself  i would give them a kick up the arse. If they are brazenly ignoring the rules in public what are they doing in private.  

As I said , there is more to it than this, and I dont mean to be generalising about young folk because many are sticking to the rules and it will be particularly hard for them, but this is definitely an area causing problems and until everyone is vaccinated I think we will continue to struggle. 

I agree that a lot of folk seem to have given up on the restrictions but it's not just young folk. I've seen loads of older folk at it as well, and it's not just giving up mask wearing. I've spoken to a lot of folk who think they are safe because they have had two jags. Most folk don't read as much about vaccine stuff as the folk contributing to this thread do, and a lot of them don't know any better. Of course the vaccines make people safer but a lot of folk think they are now immune to COVID. I think both the UK and Scottish governments have also pretty much given up as well. This Mancester ban and telling folk not to travel to London for the football are just token gestures. They are relying on vaccines and natural spread of the virus amongst less vulnerable people getting us out of this. It's a huge gamble IMO and I'm not confident it is going to work. I just hope they are right.

[Lamia]

39 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I agree that a lot of folk seem to have given up on the restrictions but it's not just young folk. I've seen loads of older folk at it as well, and it's not just giving up mask wearing. I've spoken to a lot of folk who think they are safe because they have had two jags. Most folk don't read as much about vaccine stuff as the folk contributing to this thread do, and a lot of them don't know any better. Of course the vaccines make people safer but a lot of folk think they are now immune to COVID. I think both the UK and Scottish governments have also pretty much given up as well. This Mancester ban and telling folk not to travel to London for the football are just token gestures. They are relying on vaccines and natural spread of the virus amongst less vulnerable people getting us out of this. It's a huge gamble IMO and I'm not confident it is going to work. I just hope they are right.

I questioned someone who was at the football about why they were not bothering and they said they had had two jags and had tested negative with a lateral flow test. I told them lateral flow tests were not very accurate and they seemed to be unaware of this.

Looking at my FB it is clear that many think they don't have to comply because they have had both doses. We might as well just open up completely because people are simply not listening or caring any more. I now feel very sorry for all the businesses having to jump through all the hoops when no one at the football is bothering.

[ThistleWhistle]

On 6/20/2021 at 11:01 PM, Lamia said:

Anyone know how India did this. I have tried googling what their restrictions are like but can't really figure it out and not sure how their vaccine rollout is going either but it is a pretty dramatic reduction

 

 

This is quite interesting showing how they're getting on with the vaccine but doubt that's had anything to do with it:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/the-coronavirus-outbreak/india/covid-19-india-reports-42640-new-cases-1167-deaths-in-last-24-hours/articleshow/83737339.cms

Although the cities seem to be improving would probably suggest it is now moving to the poor folk in the country who won't be tested so there's know way of knowing an accurate number.  

 

[phart]

our cases sky rocketed today with huge percentage positive as well. Not sure but went up like 80%.