exile Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, phart said: Continual lockdowns are not the answer to bringing Covid under control Countries such as Vietnam and New Zealand are reopening due to robust strategies. When will we learn from them? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/10/continual-local-lockdowns-answer-covid-control?CMP=share_btn_tw Interesting. My question would be, given that the Scottish track & trace operation is supposedly doing well, what else could/should they be doing to control things? Devi is a Scots Govt advisor after all. Are there weaknesses somewhere in the tracking/tracing? maybe the app % tracing is good but what about the % of population using the app? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Over a 1,000 new cases today 6 deaths today, 2 in East Ayrshire - 1 in East Renfrewshire - 2 in Glasgow - 1 in North Lanarkshire and the ages are: - 1 in the 25-44 range - 1 in the 45-64 range - 2 in the 65-74 range - 2 in the 75-84 range @TravellingTabby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, exile said: Interesting. My question would be, given that the Scottish track & trace operation is supposedly doing well, what else could/should they be doing to control things? Devi is a Scots Govt advisor after all. Are there weaknesses somewhere in the tracking/tracing? maybe the app % tracing is good but what about the % of population using the app? Well in that article it cites. "switching from quarantining the population to only quarantining those who had been exposed to the virus" "the government actively encouraged people to go abroad on holidays," So not allowing holidays abroad "where test results are returned within 24 hours, at least 80% of people’s contacts are reached and there is high adherence to a rule of 14 days’ isolation for those exposed to the virus." We had a 20% adherence to the 14 day rule according to some surveys. I personally know of 3 folk who tested positive and waited days for contact tracers, they traced forwards but not backwards (See other posts why this is a good thing) So I wouldn't say we had a good system here. "we need strict border measures to prevent the virus from being reimported, instead of our current system that is lax and poorly monitored." I'm not aware of any weaknesses specifically in the app. It probably isn't downloaded enough, some employers (anecdotally) have been asking employees to switch it off. I'd take what i say advisably though, i'm defo not an expert. Enough ultracrepidarianism on this subject as there is without me adding to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Thread showing how Doctors have got better at treating the seriously ill. 40% fatality rate at certain point down to 25% now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 53 minutes ago, phart said: Well in that article it cites. "switching from quarantining the population to only quarantining those who had been exposed to the virus" "the government actively encouraged people to go abroad on holidays," So not allowing holidays abroad "where test results are returned within 24 hours, at least 80% of people’s contacts are reached and there is high adherence to a rule of 14 days’ isolation for those exposed to the virus." We had a 20% adherence to the 14 day rule according to some surveys. I personally know of 3 folk who tested positive and waited days for contact tracers, they traced forwards but not backwards (See other posts why this is a good thing) So I wouldn't say we had a good system here. "we need strict border measures to prevent the virus from being reimported, instead of our current system that is lax and poorly monitored." I'm not aware of any weaknesses specifically in the app. It probably isn't downloaded enough, some employers (anecdotally) have been asking employees to switch it off. I'd take what i say advisably though, i'm defo not an expert. Enough ultracrepidarianism on this subject as there is without me adding to it. Thanks, yes I meant beyond what was in the article, to do with the track & trace, not things like borders that seem problematic to do. It was not 100% clear from the article if she was specifically talking about UK or Scots Govt (I am not making a political point here, more that she - given writing in the Guardian - probably was not intending to be making a particular point one way or another about what the Scots Govt could/should have done about the Scottish border). I don't think anyone would ever accuse you of ultracrepidarianism 😉. Though the "Anything goes" section sounds like an invitation to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Craig Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 I do think New Zealand and Vietnam have advantages over Scotland and the rest of the UK. I'd guess both are not holidaymaker hotspots whereas Scotland and the UK is being in Europe and on Europeans doorsteps. Also perhaps New Zealand have been like Australia in that they closed their borders. I do think that would be a help. It really is quite stupid to allow people to move freely between countries in my opinion and certainly helps spread the virus. But you see that would throttle airlines and holiday companies and same goes for pubs on to close or not to close. We cannot have it both ways. We either be tough and shut down the borders and close pubs etc or the spread continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toepoke Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, exile said: Thanks, yes I meant beyond what was in the article, to do with the track & trace, not things like borders that seem problematic to do. It was not 100% clear from the article if she was specifically talking about UK or Scots Govt (I am not making a political point here, more that she - given writing in the Guardian - probably was not intending to be making a particular point one way or another about what the Scots Govt could/should have done about the Scottish border). I don't think anyone would ever accuse you of ultracrepidarianism 😉. Though the "Anything goes" section sounds like an invitation to it... Think she was speaking about UK government, the UK government has the powers to implement the strategies the devolved governments do not. That's why i'm not going in on the SNP goverment for this, care-homes aside, they are pretty powerless in the ways that matter in controlling this. My opinion is they're doing "alright", a lot of the spread is down to individuals not government policy if you really want to be harsh at some point adults have to take responsibility in situations like this. It's not like the exam fiasco which was a failure in governance. It's like herding cats. Folk are just going to do what they want to do. I hope this "wave" doesn't follow the Spanish Flu model as the 2nd wave was huge compared to the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Toepoke said: 2nd person interviewed asking good questions, first person not so sure where her data comes from. We have more peeps in hospital today than we had when we first went into lockdown in March, so things could spiral crazy in the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 As someone says in Glasgow it’s ether ice bags or body bags that’s the stark choice at the minute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres the pies Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Has there ever been a more corrupt government than these Tory lying bastards l fucking despair I really do and this is only the tip of the iceberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Speaking purely from my own recent experience I'm definitely seeing among my own family, friends and neighbours the support for and adherence to the COVID regulations rapidly beginning to fade. I know a lot of folk getting extremely fed up, angry and depressed. People are starting to crack up. They want to see their sister who lives in London, they want to see their Dad who lives in Aberdeen, they want to meet up in the same room (in a pub, club, restaurant or someone's home) with eight or nine of their old friends. No way will people keep this up at Christmas and New Year. That's going to be a big emotional tipping point for many people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of Paisley Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 5 hours ago, phart said: 2nd person interviewed asking good questions, first person not so sure where her data comes from. We have more peeps in hospital today than we had when we first went into lockdown in March, so things could spiral crazy in the next couple of weeks. Was one of the most pathetic stunts I have ever seen. Utter tadgers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErsatzThistle Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Looking on the bright side of things, "poppy week/day" and all the shite that goes with it will be severely muted this year which is a very good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, wheres the pies said: Has there ever been a more corrupt government than these Tory lying bastards l fucking despair I really do and this is only the tip of the iceberg Aye they already had a Company with a supply line and 50 years experience vying for the contract in the first example as well. It's crony capitalism, the kleptocracy. So infuriating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Want me to isolate? Sure--make sure that I have a comfortable and safe space to isolate. Jesus, what stupid statement. Get on with doing the best you can...... unfortunately it undid the validity of the first two, valid, arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, ger intae them said: Want me to isolate? Sure--make sure that I have a comfortable and safe space to isolate. Jesus, what stupid statement. Get on with doing the best you can...... unfortunately it undid the validity of the first two, valid, arguments. Not really imo, the countries that have mitigated it best had places away from home so folk could isolate away from their household and stop household transmissions. Households are still the largest driver of transmissions. That's what i took from the meaning of it. If you test positive no point going to live with your family you'll just transmit it to them as well. Hell some places you'd quarantine till you got your result back and then move onto isolation if positive or back to family if negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 here's New Zeland last 24 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitre Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 19 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said: I do think New Zealand and Vietnam have advantages over Scotland and the rest of the UK. I'd guess both are not holidaymaker hotspots whereas Scotland and the UK is being in Europe and on Europeans doorsteps. Also perhaps New Zealand have been like Australia in that they closed their borders. I do think that would be a help. Vietnam receive 5 times the number of international tourists that visit Scotland. They have also closed their borders since March hence the low death rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 4 hours ago, phart said: Not really imo, the countries that have mitigated it best had places away from home so folk could isolate away from their household and stop household transmissions. Households are still the largest driver of transmissions. That's what i took from the meaning of it. If you test positive no point going to live with your family you'll just transmit it to them as well. Hell some places you'd quarantine till you got your result back and then move onto isolation if positive or back to family if negative. It’s doable in the countries where personal freedoms aren’t valued as highly as they are here...... where the authority can more easily control people’s movements and behaviours. For here it should be done, but it’s totally unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, ger intae them said: It’s doable in the countries where personal freedoms aren’t valued as highly as they are here...... where the authority can more easily control people’s movements and behaviours. For here it should be done, but it’s totally unrealistic. Like New Zealand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ger intae them Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 New Zealand has a fraction of the cases..... therefore a fraction of the accommodation required...... you’re comparing pumpkins with peas man 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted October 11, 2020 Share Posted October 11, 2020 One view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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